DON'T CLOSE YOUR MINDS

Eliphas Levi was a Free Mason as well. Some try to contend he wasn't, but if Albert Pike studied his teachings, translated his work, and tried to incorporate those teachings, its all the same any way.

So which way will you have it? Ignorance or denial.


[edit on 10-2-2005 by akilles]

Originally posted by akilles
DON'T CLOSE YOUR MINDS

Eliphas Levi was a Free Mason as well. Some try to contend he wasn't, but if Albert Pike studied his teachings, translated his work, and tried to incorporate those teachings, its all the same any way.

You simply refuse to back up what you claim, you sad, sad little troll. And here I thought you might actually have something to say this time. Now after being called out AGAIN, you simply change the subject, true to form. Stick a fork in him, he's done...

So which way will you have it? Ignorance or denial.

Actually, around here the idea is DENIAL OF IGNORANCE.

You seriously are not getting it.

[edit on 2/10/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by akilles
DON'T CLOSE YOUR MINDS

Eliphas Levi was a Free Mason as well. Some try to contend he wasn't, but if Albert Pike studied his teachings, translated his work, and tried to incorporate those teachings, its all the same any way.

You simply refuse to back up what you claim, you sad, sad little troll. And here I thought you might actually have something to say this time. Now after being called out AGAIN, you simply change the subject, true to form. Stick a fork in him, he's done...

AKILLES: I gotta agree with Axeman, why do you keep refusing to answer everyone's challenges? You keep changing the subject anytime the conversation does not go your way. If you have been proven wrong, BE A MAN and admit it, otherwise enlighten us with your rebuttal. Otherwise you really are being nothing more than what around here they call a Troll.

When I put a link to somewhere else on the internet, with the domain masonicinfo, then I have effectively proven a point?

Look, Axeman you are making me wonder why you don't want to look at this yourself, and keep asking me to do it for you.

I am stating the connection for those who want to know about it.

I mean, here you guys are saying 'he was portrayed as Cincinnatus', and the very link you gave me says 'He disproved of being portrayed as Cincinnatus'. Maybe because it would unveil the obvious, that he only denied becoming 'king' in a symbolic sense.

You know, I heard English Freemasons loved anagrams, for what its worth.
Can't prove it on Masonicinfo.com mind you....

But here is 'so-called proof'
The United States of America: Attaineth its cause, freedom

President Clinton of the USA
To copulate, he finds interns

The Treason of Benedict Arnold:
Lo, None defend the traitor scab.

Gillian Anderson- No aliens, darling

September Eleventh, Two Thousand and One :One top event. Bush's theorem: "Laden wanted.

Osama Bin Laden: A bad man, No lies

Alright, yeah, I threw in the un-related ones to see if anyone has a sense of humor.

This is great. When are you guys going to specifically call me a 14 year old, or suggest that I am some pain in the ass banned member, returned to bug you once more.

Because that takes us even more topic than my 'topic changing'.

So you guys are clinging to the hope there is no connection of Baphomet to Freemasonry? Or that it is innocent symbolism?

Benedict Arnold was a Freemason, doesn't bother me, except it shows there were Masons on both sides, and that there was behind the schemes plotting. Hmmm, I wouldn't imply the scheming was between Masons....

Washington DC is like a big Freemason monument, deny it.

Abraham Lincoln wasn't officially in Masonry because it had a bad rap at the time, yet all his friends, associates, neighbors were Masons, disprove it.

I hope it feels good to call me a troll, each time it makes me never want to come back again!

Originally posted by akilles
DON'T CLOSE YOUR MINDS

Eliphas Levi was a Free Mason as well.

Hold on. You just said that the geo washington statue was modelled on the baphomet drawing because of similarities between them. I and the axeman actually bothered to put up the pics and analyse the things. We reached different conclusions than you. So you ignore it entirely?

Are you here for a discussion or not?

but if Albert Pike studied his teachings, translated his work, and tried to incorporate those teachings, its all the same any way.

So levi was a mason, or at least a mason studied up on him a bit. Ok, whats that got to do with it?

akilles
I am stating the connection for those who want to know about it.

This is not a broadcasting board for your private usage, this is a discussion board. If you are not here to discuss things then plainly state it here so that the people who do want to discuss things don't have to bother trying to.

'he was portrayed as Cincinnatus', and the very link you gave me says 'He disproved of being portrayed as Cincinnatus'

He was dead in the middle of the 1800s when the statue was made, and lots of people made lots of stuff portraying him as cincinnatus.

President Clinton of the USA

Are you actually insane? You suggest that masons gave clinton his name and made him president and made sure he banged an intern, in order to have a silly anagram?

Because that takes us even more topic than my 'topic changing'.

So you do admit that you have no way to actually discuss the geo statue and baphomet, other than to say 'look, he's sitting down and has one arm raised'?

disprove it.

This thread is supposed to be about Illuminati and KT connections. If you want to discuss those things and their implications, perhaps, at this point, it'd be better to start a new thread.

but why should anyone discuss anything with you if you are actually only here to promote your own unsupportable opinions?

Originally posted by akilles
I hope it feels good to call me a troll, each time it makes me never want to come back again!

One can only hope... Troll.

P.S. Kudos to you Nygdan.

[edit on 2/10/05 by The Axeman]

Your conclusions on the Baphomet drawing were bull#. Why do you make me say it so blatantly?

You guys obviously TRIED HARD to find a picture MORE similar to Georgie's pose, but could not. Then you tried to post pictures of other statues, to take up space I guess?

The reason I am not discussing links between the Illuminati and Knights Templar, is because people only discuss the "1776-1798 Bavarian Illuminati founded by Adam Weishaupt that was abolished by the government, and disappeared".

Eliphas Levi was not merely a Freemason, but then, how could I PROVE that to you? Albert Pike studied his work extensively, but again, without a Time Machine, what do you want from me?

What some call neo-classicism in art, I call blatant symbolism. Who am I to try convince people otherwise?

Seriously, does anyone want to touch the topic why their is a Freemason Lodge 13 blocks north of the White House?

Again, why is it hard to believe that the elite have running inside jokes, eg. William Shakespeare?

OK, I just spent some time digging around, trying to find some kind of at least decently written article or other info on the topic of this thread, i.e. the "connection" that has turned this thread into a flame fest, and I kid you not I could find not one good solid article. I don't know how many sites I dug through and I couldn't find one even worth posting here and commenting on. THey all say the same thing. Nothing. So does anyone have anything that is even the least bit engaging to back up the "connection" or is this thread finished? I'm thinking this one is cooked, sorry for all the flames from my way, but good grief man...

[edit on 2/10/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by akilles
Your conclusions on the Baphomet drawing were bull#. Why do you make me say it so blatantly?

We're asking you to explain why you think it's BS, nothing more.

You guys obviously TRIED HARD to find a picture MORE similar to Georgie's pose, but could not. Then you tried to post pictures of other statues, to take up space I guess?

I don't know about trying hard, it took me a few minutes to find the pictures and write the post, nothing hard about that. We were trying to show you that there are not as many similarities as you are suggesting, as anyone with eyes who can read can see here.

The reason I am not discussing links between the Illuminati and Knights Templar, is because people only discuss the "1776-1798 Bavarian Illuminati founded by Adam Weishaupt that was abolished by the government, and disappeared".

That's the one we know of. The other is speculation at best.

Eliphas Levi was not merely a Freemason, but then, how could I PROVE that to you? Albert Pike studied his work extensively, but again, without a Time Machine, what do you want from me?

I'm not sure about Levi being Mason, he might have been, I don't know. I don't even know if Pike studied his work, but what does Pike have to do with the Satue and the picture? That he was a Mason? How do you come up with this stuff? What I want from you is to write something or post something to at least attempt to support your theory instead of making broad, baseless assumptions and then trying to change the subject when challenged.

What some call neo-classicism in art, I call blatant symbolism. Who am I to try convince people otherwise?

So what? There is symbolisn everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Has been forever, since before Man could speak. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

Seriously, does anyone want to touch the topic why their is a Freemason Lodge 13 blocks north of the White House?

OK, so, there are lodges in all cities. And the Scottsh Rite Temples in big cities are huge, beautiful buildings. Washington. DC is a BIG city, of course they will have a beautiful building, you don't think they give all their money to charity do you? Not to mention the fact that you are probably not talking about a Lodge at all, I bet you are talking about the headquarters of the Scottish Rite Supreme Council 33°. Not a Freemason Lodge. But yeah it's there, that's where Albert Pike is buried. So what?

Again, why is it hard to believe that the elite have running inside jokes, eg. William Shakespeare?

OMG no you did not.


[edit on 2/10/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Nygdan

Hold on. You just said that the geo washington statue was modelled on the baphomet drawing because of similarities between them. I and the axeman actually bothered to put up the pics and analyse the things. We reached different conclusions than you. So you ignore it entirely?

Are you here for a discussion or not?

He's done this with practically every statement he's made on this forum. First he says that Freemasonry is derived from an ancient make-believe term called "Phree Messen". When he's shown to be wrong, he ignores it and moves on to other nonsense, which as just as easily refuted, and which refutations are just as ignored by akilles.

Now, he comes round with "Baphomet", apparently not knowing that the word was a French corruption of the name of the Prophet Muhammed (spelled in French Mahomet), and was used falsely against the Templars in order to "prove" that the Knights had converted to Islam, and therefore, their treasury should go to the "Christian" king of France.

Levi's Baphomet, drawing on the name of the charge against the Templars, presents a symbolic glimpse of a certain property in nature that concerns abstract metaphysics. It basically represents the same function of Nature that was personified by the ancient Greek Adepts in their personification of it, which they called Pan; it was not an accident that Pan was deemed the deity of forests and glades, i.e., the natural world as presented to the senses.

However, these subjects are meant to be studied by Philosophers and Magi, and it is not expected that akilles should have knowledge of such symbols.

So hmmm... They were accused of worshipping Baphomet, and gave different confessions.

To you it means obviously the allegations against them were false.

How did you prove the term 'Phree Messen' to be make-believe?

You say that all members of an Order such as the Hermetic Dawn had to belong to a church to join. You see this as obvious proof that all had a belief in a God that serves all man, not only those in the Order.

I see it only as a tactical manoeuvre, which any self-respecting subversive group would take, for the very reason that ALL claims could be dismissed merely by the entire Order's membership and involvement in the Church.

Consider this: Is our naive habit of equating wickedness with warts leading
us into deception? Perhaps the truth is too obvious:

The Golem hides.

Originally posted by akilles
So hmmm... They were accused of worshipping... The Golem hides.

Yes, no and maybe!

It depends upon one's definition of any belief system other than Christianity, Judaism or any other "established" religious order. Any church going Mason will explode in anger when the implication is made that their cult is Satanic. We've seen it right here on ATS.
There does appear to be much secrecy within the cult. I find it quite alarming that the several 32nd degree place holders, that I'm familiar with, say nothing to dispell the falsehoods; occasionally resorting with flaming anger.

Is there a link between The Knights Templar and the Freemasons? My reading convinces me there is. Is there a link between The Knights Templar and the Illuminati? Again, my research leads me to say yes. Though it is frail and contorted.

There is also a link between the Republican Party and President GW Bush; but, he ain't no conservative (read Constitutionalist). To suggest there exists more that a few "conservatives" in the GOP is ignorance. But that's another subject matter.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Patri0t]

Originally posted by Patri0t
It depends upon one's definition of any belief system other than Christianity, Judaism or any other "established" religious order. Any church going Mason will explode in anger when the implication is made that their cult is Satanic. [much senseless babble snipped]

No. I'm a church going Mason (in fact I need to get ready for Morning Mass right now) and I won't "explode" because plain and simple what's being said is a lie. I try (why...I'll never know) to dispell the ignorance, but to no avail.

An example is your baited post with the use of the word "cult" a couple of times when Freemasonry is nothing BUT a Fraternity. Not a cult. But go ahead if it makes you feel better...call it what you want, but it just isn't so.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by Patri0t
Is there a link between The Knights Templar and the Freemasons? My reading convinces me there is. Is there a link between The Knights Templar and the Illuminati? Again, my research leads me to say yes. Though it is frail and contorted.

What have you read that is so convincing? Please, enlighten us.