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President Trump Must Now Include Democrats In His Major Agenda Items.

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posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Perhaps the lesson here is that governing a country is really very different than running a business?

Perhaps, politics actually requires certain ... skills?




posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: introvert

Perhaps the lesson here is that governing a country is really very different than running a business?

Perhaps, politics actually requires certain ... skills?


Of course. Being a politician requires an entirely different skillset than a businessperson needs. Not to mention, the goals of politicians and those of people in business are completely different.

Being successful in one, does not necessarily mean they will find success in the other.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Trump has mad skills. With everything.
Just ask him.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 02:32 PM
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He won because he sold desperate people what they wanted to hear. He also lost the popular vote by 3 MILLION people.

What you republicans have won though is the public now seeing the cancer that is the right wing congress. The fact that the GOP had a large majority in the house and still could not pass Trumpcare shows exactly why congress has the lowest rating of all times. It's not the dems issue that half of your elected officials are conspiracy nuts and the other half works for the NRA/Oil/Gas Corporations/Billionaires.

Somewhere in between the right wing corruption and lies are your voter base and are slowly learning that right wing politics is not only bad for the country, but has an extremely negative effect on them too.

GOP = Useless


originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Spot on post. The only way the left will support Trump en masse at this point is if he changes his stance in a bigly way on practically every issue.

From the left's standpoint, in the chicken little scenario the op paints, there is absolutely zero reason for the left to rush to the support of Trump. From their perspective, he can't even secure enough support from his own side of the aisle so why on gods name should they suddenly give it to him?
Uhh..yeah not going to happen, hench why he WON. Its in the interest of the LEFT to ADAPT or get left behind.


edit on 25-3-2017 by SeekingAlpha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: SeekingAlpha

So then riddle me this: If Trump won by selling desperate people what they wanted to hear....


....and Obama won on Hope and CHange......


......how bad, exactly, is the situation in our country?

How bad will it end up when we finally elect a cult of personality that is able to make something happen, but in a very bad way?



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

......how bad, exactly, is the situation in our country?



That's the thing, for some of us, it's better than it's ever been. We have every convenience we can imagine, phones we can hold in the palm of our hands and still have room for a tape deck/record player/stereo/TV in the same hand.

We can communicate around the world to anyone in seconds. We can travel anywhere we want (basically).

We use genetic therapies and other medical tech that were unimagined even a few years ago to stop cancer, heart disease, etc. in its tracks.

We're living longer, we're healthier, etc. etc.

Yet ...

The classic "American Dream" is gone. We are not going to get out of school, go to work and keep the same job for 40 years and retire with enough money to live on. We're not going to be able to depend on stability in our economy, and we will have to adjust to great upswells and crashes which will hit those hardest who are the least able to deal with it.

And yes, some of us are doing fine, but many of us aren't. The wealth gap is wider than it's ever been.

People are having their basic dignity as human beings stripped away from them ... and those people are ripe for exactly the kind of Big Man/Cult of Personality types to wield them into a force of cruelty that would make the Reign of Terror weep.

Or something like that.
edit on 25-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 05:21 PM
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It's much better on the left than it is on the right. I can tell you that as a fact.


originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: SeekingAlpha

So then riddle me this: If Trump won by selling desperate people what they wanted to hear....


....and Obama won on Hope and CHange......


......how bad, exactly, is the situation in our country?

How bad will it end up when we finally elect a cult of personality that is able to make something happen, but in a very bad way?




posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Only because "the left" is populated with individualists who can't agree on anything but think they know everything.

For example for a moment, let's assume that the national Democratic party is "left" (it isn't in any meaningful terms, it''s corporatocratic just like the Republicans). Can you say with any confidence that you TRUST Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer? Or any of the rest of them?

And it's not just political "leaders" (because they don't really have any) ...

Have you listened, for example to Rachel Maddow or Bill Maher or Lawrence O'Donnell lately? If you have, have you paid attention to the rhetorical tactics they're using?

Pure, Rush, Hannity, Colter, etc.

If it's more PALATABLE because that's what your individual programming is telling you.

If both "sides" continue to march to the far fringes, there really will be no one left in the middle, where most of us ACTUALLY are.

I'd be the first to admit that the Right Wing Media/Blogsphere/Echo Chamber is far more pervasive and COORDINATED that what has existed on the left ... but that's changing rapidly.

And what good will any of that finally be if we're only shrieking obscenities at each other as we tumble, head-long into the abyss?

Nada.
edit on 25-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Spelling Jesus



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

I think part of the problem was it wasn't even clear what the goal was. Some of his voters wanted a repeal and that's it. While others thought they'd get a repeal and replace with something better.

So right there you already have a problem because regardless of which of those two happened, the other half of his voters didn't want it and were not going to accept it.

That's what happens when you vote for someone making vague promises or promises that change from time to time. You get a bunch of people thinking they're getting something they aren't going to get.

On top of that, even if he did the repeal and replace, which is what he tried, he wasn't able to replace it with something better. So at that point he pissed off both sides of his voters.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Some of his voters wanted a repeal and that's it. While others thought they'd get a repeal and replace with something better.
"Repeal and replace" was the plank.

That they had no plan to accomplish it was their problem.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 05:45 PM
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The left agreed and also many of them sacrificed their jobs in congress for Obamacare so I don't know what you are talking about.

As for being governed from the fringes, you do realize that politically speaking Obama was slightly right of center if you take out all the BS that right wingers were trying to pin on him. The reality is that the fringe officials you are talking about is all from the right. The left is not actively promote low-lifes that are white nationalists or neo-fascists like the republican party is.

As I mentioned in the past, I'm a registered Republican and it is absolutely pathetic to see how far the right has gone since Reagan. It's time for the right to buy a clue.


originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Only because "the left" is populated with individualists who can't agree on anything but think they know everything.

For example for a moment, let's assume that the national Democratic party is "left" (it isn't in any meaningful terms, it''s corporatocratic just like the Republicans). Can you say with any confidence that you TRUST Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer? Or any of the rest of them?

And it's not just political "leaders" (because they don't really have any) ...

Have you listened, for example to Rachel Maddow or Bill Maher or Lawrence O'Donnell lately? If you have, have you paid attention to the rhetorical tactics they're using?

Pure, Rush, Hannity, Colter, etc.

If it's more PALATABLE because that's what your individual programming is telling you.

If both "sides" continue to march to the far fringes, there really will be no one left in the middle, where most of us ACTUALLY are.

I'd be the first to admit that the Right Wing Media/Blogsphere/Echo Chamber is far more pervasive and COORDINATED that what has existed on the left ... but that's changing rapidly.

And what good will any of that finally be if we're only shrieking obscenities at each other as we tumble, head-long into the abyss?

Nada.

edit on 25-3-2017 by SeekingAlpha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: Phage

For sure. The fact that they kept talking about it for seven years and finally convinced people to get on board only to not have a plan was exactly why they look like a bunch or lying douche bags. That's pretty obvious.

It makes me wonder if for those seven years they never actually considered what would happen if people believed them.

It's like they just kept saying it but figured they wouldn't ever have to make good on it. Just one big 7 year bluff that eventually they got called on.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



some of us are doing fine, but many of us aren't. The wealth gap is wider than it's ever been.

People are having their basic dignity as human beings stripped away from them ... and those people are ripe for exactly the kind of Big Man/Cult of Personality types to wield them into a force of cruelty that would make the Reign of Terror weep.


IMO America's oligarchs have behaved similar to Russian oligarchs, sucking up wealth without putting it back into the economy. Russians had hoped for a new beginning; Americans should be ashamed to have gotten to this point.

Gryph, when I see the guiding principle of the right reactionary Koch Libertarian ideology that has made for the New Republican Party, I no longer see what being American meant to me. True, this guiding principle has manifested itself through Trump's infusion of the Mercer/Bannon hard line wing, but in truth, what Mercer believes seems to be what Ryan etal don't come out and voice, yet believe:


“Bob [Mercer] believes that human beings have no inherent value other than how much money they make. A cat has value, he’s said, because it provides pleasure to humans. But if someone is on welfare they have negative value. If he earns a thousand times more than a schoolteacher, then he’s a thousand times more valuable.” ....“He thinks society is upside down—that government helps the weak people get strong, and makes the strong people weak by taking their money away, through taxes.”


There seems to really not be that much daylight between "making govt [at both fed and state levels] small enough to drown in a bath tub" and Mercer's wanting it to all fall down. Americans have been made to mistrust their govt for decades now.


“Bob thinks the less government the better. He’s happy if people don’t trust the government. And if the President’s a bozo? He’s fine with that. He wants it to all fall down.”

source

To check this extremist distortion requires a huge effort to shout, "No!", and take this country back from the edge. Power must be returned to rational, reasonable leaders.

I don't see where there is much that the New Republican Party and the Democratic Party can agree on.
edit on 25-3-2017 by desert because: ETA source



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: SeekingAlpha
The left agreed and also many of them sacrificed their jobs in congress for Obamacare so I don't know what you are talking about.


Sacrificed their jobs in Congress? Wow, that sounds noble. Got any evidence?


originally posted by: SeekingAlpha
As for being governed from the fringes, you do realize that politically speaking Obama was slightly right of center if you take out all the BS that right wingers were trying to pin on him. The reality is that the fringe officials you are talking about is all from the right. The left is not actively promote low-lifes that are white nationalists or neo-fascists like the republican party is.



All American politics starts near Center moderate and goes right if we're honest. There are no real leftists in this country (at least that have much of a voice). Given that, you're sadly mistaken that the only "fringe" is on the right in American politics. None of us are altogether "on the right" or left; these are manufactured terms inflicted on us constantly by the American media.

Sadder still, you just proved the point. Because you don't agree with some people, you're labling them with emotion-laden terms ... just like those on the "fringe" that you're complaining about. Goose, gander; pot, kettle.


originally posted by: SeekingAlpha
As I mentioned in the past, I'm a registered Republican and it is absolutely pathetic to see how far the right has gone since Reagan. It's time for the right to buy a clue.


Ronald Reagan is the one who corrupted the Republican party with far-right and Christian-right extremists. IF you were a Reagan fan you've actually helped to create the environment that you seem, now, to be complaining about.

Guess some genies need to stay in the bottle, eh?
edit on 25-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 07:25 PM
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a reply to: desert

Yes, the economic engines of small town America have been thrown away in the name of greater profits in the short term.

And yes, this is one of the major contributing factors to the ever-widening income/wealth gap.

The Republican party is about to experience what the Democrats have been dealing with for years ... factionalization.

Their REDMAP initiative to gerrymander the House maps has blown up in their faces ... they've gotten too many smaller groups that think they are the only important ones.

Article I, Section 8 is very clear that our government exists to provide for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States. The fundamental unit of the United States is PEOPLE. People like Bannon and Mercer don't understand that fact; that is why they fail.

Every nation has a life-cycle. I still hope ours has many centuries left, because I truly believe that the truths embodied in our Constitution point the way to the best structure for governmment that the world has ever seen.

We do seem to have tipped over the border into a certain kind of insanity, but remember, around 30-45% of us thinks that THIS is right where we need to be.

George Washington (who was both much more and much less than the myth) said it clearly in his Farewell Address: political parties would be the downfall of the Republic.

We can either fix it, or we'll see our America go away completely.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Be fair. The Trump campaign never thought they would win, so they never really did develop any actual policies. They just made promises that sounded good. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? Seriously?



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: SeekingAlpha



I'm a registered Republican and it is absolutely pathetic to see how far the right has gone since Reagan. It's time for the right to buy a clue.


Thank you for speaking up, Alpha. You are correct. Not only is it not the party of Reagan, it is not the party of George W Bush! The ideology of a party that claimed 1% of the vote in 1980 has, as of the 2016 election, taken complete control of the party. It took decades and the money of billionaires spreading their ideology through think tanks and media to arrive at that point.

I actually cringed when Michael Steele groveled in apology to Rush Limbaugh in 2009. The party gave power to their extremists, dragging it further and further rightward. Ornstein and Mann wrote a book about how the RP has become a factional party, a party of "outliers", refusing to compromise, making for asymmetric polarization. The two party system set up by the Founding Leaders, meant to find compromise, to work as loyal opposition, has floundered.

I now cringe when pundits talk about the "moderate" and "conservative" leaders in the party, w/o taking into account how far right the party has become, so far right that John McCain has been labeled a liberal by party members! And you are correct, that Obama will be viewed as having governed as (what once was) a moderate Republican. The pundit's "civil war" in the party is not between "moderates" and "conservatives", it's a war between two wings of the same ideological extremists, vying for who can be the most extreme.

The fight for America's soul is not an existential fight between East and West, it is an existential fight between homegrown extremists and reasonable, rational citizens.

Trivia.... the first right wing Tea Party rallies were joined by a group so far to the left that they are not allowed to run as Democrats, and that is why Obama was described as being both a Marxist and a Hitler. When the political continuum is bent in a circle, fringe extremists join together.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 08:02 PM
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Its clear Trump had a firm coalition of moderate republicans and democrats if he really wanted to improve Obamacare, and not just go for the east way out. He took 18 days to study and try to pass this lousy bill whereas Obamacare took 18 months....A real effort and compromise bill but at least was thought out. Trump tried for the cheap and easy way...

Indeed, he really just wanted to steamroll over Obamacare and get rid of it without even considering the worth of its replacement.

He didn’t even know hardly what was in the bill. He took the word of Ryan and Reince Preibes, conservative dogmatists, that it was a good bill and it obviously wasn’t.

EVERY major player from the AMA, AARP, the medical establishment and even conservative think tanks were all against this flimsy bill. Even Trump’s VP wasn’t crazy about the bill and told him NOT to call it Trumpcare but Ryancare

Trump they say is mad now but will be take the right road and form a moderate coalition with the democrats or continue on the road to failure.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: mOjOm

Be fair. The Trump campaign never thought they would win, so they never really did develop any actual policies. They just made promises that sounded good. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? Seriously?


This isn't just trump but every conservative in gov. that kept saying repeal and replace. They scream about it for 7 years but don't actually have any ideas. So they finally get their chance and blow it bigly.



posted on Mar, 25 2017 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

They have ideas but their single minded:

GUARD THE WEALTH OF THE RICH


That’s the one and only idea they have



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