Some Criticisms of Christianity

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: blueyedevilwoman

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: blueyedevilwoman

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: blueyedevilwoman

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: dfnj2015

My question then is how can a God be thought to be "all-loving" if that does not include non-believers and fence-sitters?

God loves all people ...Both Jew and Gentile ...

Yet if I do not submit to his will, through blind faith, for my whole life, I get the roasting and toasting, after I die???

No matter how anyone explains this quaint concept.

It still comes off as spiritual rape.

I mean.....what choice is there?

If you have a hell gun pointed at your head.
Its not a choice.

you have it wrong

there are no laws in Christianity, just do things in love

But don't expect there to be no judgement,

So which is it?

I understand your confusion

Oh thank goodness.

It's simple,

I know, right!

there are no laws in christianity or love is the only law
There is no condemnation in the judgement on christians

Why?

But if you are not a christian, then you do not have grace, then the justice
Simple?

No. It is doublespeak

Love me.....or else!

Is not REAL love.

Or else, yeah or else you will have to pay the penalty
It's your choice, you don't have to love, it's not a demand

It's not double speak, it's simple.

God is as much a God of justice as He is a God of love
You just want Him to be all cuddly and fit your own desires as to what a god should be, sorry, not the one in the bible

There is no condemnation for Christians

Go on....

because Jesus paid the fine that the "police" issued

By " police" he means God everybody.

The ticket is written, the law has been broken, there must be retribution, Christ paid the price

So God essentially works the entire system?
God is The Law Giver.....The Police......The Judge......The Executioner......and The condemned.

What is the point to all of this?

Your spirit is intimate, ok...

To mock the percieved profane in front of God, and ats, and get away with it.

Ok.
Well then.
Thanks for clarification.

Rape is sexual to Ragedyman the christian.

Anyone else?

Im out.



S&F

a reply to: dfnj2015

Galatians 6:4

4 But let each one examine his own actions, and then he will have cause for rejoicing in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person.

“Keep proving what you yourselves are” (2 Cor. 13:5)

A man traveling through the countryside comes to a fork in the road. Uncertain about which way will lead him to his destination, he asks passersby for directions but receives conflicting information. Confused, he is unable to go on. Having doubts about our beliefs can have a similar effect on us. Such uncertainty can interfere with our ability to make decisions, causing us to be unsure of the way in which to walk.

A situation arose that could have had such an effect on some people in the Christian congregation in first-century Corinth, Greece. “Superfine apostles” were challenging the authority of the apostle Paul, saying: “His letters are weighty and forceful, but his presence in person is weak and his speech contemptible.” (2 Corinthians 10:7-12; 11:5, 6) Such a viewpoint may have caused some in the Corinthian congregation to be unsure of how to walk.

Why should Paul’s admonition to the Corinthians be of interest to us?

Paul founded the congregation in Corinth during his visit there in 50 C.E. He stayed in Corinth “a year and six months, teaching among them the word of God.” Indeed, “many of the Corinthians that heard began to believe and be baptized.” (Acts 18:5-11) Paul was keenly interested in the spiritual welfare of his fellow believers in Corinth. Moreover, the Corinthians had written Paul for advice on certain matters. (1 Corinthians 7:1) So he gave them very fine admonition.

What is involved in proving what we ourselves are?

In a test, usually a subject or an object is tested, and there is a measure or a standard according to which the test is performed. In this case, the test subject is not the faith—the body of beliefs we have embraced. We as individuals are the subject. To perform the test, we have a perfect standard. A melody composed by the psalmist David states: “The law of Jehovah is perfect, bringing back the soul. The reminder of Jehovah is trustworthy, making the inexperienced one wise. The orders from Jehovah are upright, causing the heart to rejoice; the commandment of Jehovah is clean, making the eyes shine.” (Psalm 19:7, 8) The Bible contains Jehovah’s perfect laws and upright orders, his trustworthy reminders and clean commandments. The message found therein is the ideal standard for testing.

Concerning that God-inspired message, the apostle Paul says: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12) Yes, God’s word can test our heart—what we really are on the inside. How can we make this sharp and powerful message come to life for us? The psalmist leaves no doubt as to what this entails. He sang: “Happy is the man . . . [whose] delight is in the law of Jehovah, and in his law he reads in an undertone day and night.” (Psalm 1:1, 2) “The law of Jehovah” is found in God’s written Word, the Bible. We must take pleasure in reading Jehovah’s Word. Indeed, we must take time to read in it in an undertone, or to meditate on it. As we do this, we need to expose ourselves—the test subjects—to what is written there.

The foremost way of testing ourselves then, is to read and meditate on God’s Word and examine how our conduct measures up to what we learn. Also giving some thought to one’s failures is not necessarily a bad thing—especially if doing so moves you to make improvements. However, prolonged and unrelenting self-criticism is harmful and counterproductive.

Some 200 years before the event, Jehovah commanded: “Go, post a lookout that he may tell just what he sees.” What news did this watchman have to announce? “She has fallen! Babylon has fallen, and all the graven images of her gods he has broken to the earth!” (Isaiah 21:6, 9) Sure enough, in 539 B.C.E., the prophetic declaration came true. Mighty Babylon fell, and God’s covenant people were soon able to return to their homeland. The returning Jews had learned enough to abandon idolatry and spiritistic religion. However, over the years, they fell into other traps. Some were ensnared by Greek philosophy. Others came to stress human tradition over God’s Word. Still others were seduced by nationalism. (Mark 7:13; Acts 5:37) By the time Jesus was born, the nation had again turned away from pure worship. While individual Jews responded to the good news declared by Jesus, the nation as a whole rejected him and was thus rejected by God. (John 1:9-12; Acts 2:36) Israel was no longer God’s witness, and in the year 70 C.E., Jerusalem and its temple were again devastated, this time by the Roman army.—Matthew 21:43.

Meanwhile, a Christian “Israel of God” had been born, and this now served as God’s witness to the nations. (Galatians 6:16) Very quickly, Satan schemed to corrupt this new, spiritual nation. By the end of the first century, sectarian influences were seen in the congregations. (Revelation 2:6, 14, 20) Paul’s warning was timely: “Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.”—Colossians 2:8.

Just as Paul had warned, what developments led to the existence of Christendom?

Eventually, Greek philosophy, Babylonian religious ideas, and later such human “wisdom” as the theory of evolution* and higher criticism contaminated the religion of many who claimed to be Christian. It was as Paul had foretold: “I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:29, 30) As a result of this apostasy, Christendom came into existence.

Those truly devoted to pure worship had to “put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3) Would the witness to pure worship and to Jehovah vanish from the earth? No. As the time approached for the destruction of the rebel Satan and all his works, it became evident that not everyone had surrendered to the apostate worship practiced in Christendom.

*: See video below especially at the end (7:22):


Christendom is not Christianity, when you use the behaviour of those within Christendom to criticize Christianity, you''re missing something:

SHOULD RELIGIOUS EVILS JUSTIFY DISBELIEF IN GOD?

Many people do not believe in a Creator because of the well-known abuses and corruptions that blacken the history of many religions. Is that a sound reason for disbelief? No. “The excesses and atrocities of organized religion,” says Roy Abraham Varghese in his preface to Antony Flew’s book There Is a God, “have no bearing whatsoever on the existence of God, just as the threat of nuclear proliferation has no bearing on the question of whether E=mc2.” In a sense I agree with this but once you consider the prophecies and descriptions in the bible of these religious evils, it actually provides more demonstrations and evidence for the bible+God's existence.

a reply to: blueyedevilwoman

So effectively you are just upset that there are rules
I get that

a reply to: dfnj2015
In particular the prophecies and descriptions of the entity called "Babylon the Great". One of the reasons I bolded "Babylonian religious ideas". I was out of space before.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Hell and Damnation:

Again, Christendom is not Christianity. The doctrines from Christendom (which match Babylonian religious ideas as well as everywhere those spread, Islam, Judaism, and many other religions teach similar or the same doctrines regarding these subjects) also again provide more evidence for the prophecies and descriptions in the bible about it and the source of and motive for these doctrines:
What the h*ll is HELL anyway? Are you going there?

Here are some comments from my thread One myth leads to another related to this:
2nd comment mentioning Babylonian influence regarding "Myth 1: the soul is immortal"
1st comment mentioning Babylon
comment regarding the source behind the religious philosophies from Babylon and Babylon the Great

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Christians are just not nice people.

Jesus was keenly aware that imperfect humans often have a tendency to be judgmental. He counseled: “Stop judging that you may not be judged.” (Matt. 7:1) Notice that Jesus did not say: “Do not judge”; he said: “Stop judging.” He knew that many of his listeners were already in the habit of being critical of others. Could it be that you have developed such a habit?

Another very successful tactic of propaganda is generalization. Generalizations tend to obscure important facts about the real issues in question, and they are frequently used to demean entire groups of people. “Gypsies [or immigrants] are thieves” is, for instance, a phrase frequently heard in some European countries. But is that true?

Source: The Manipulation of Information
Another example of a generalization: "Christians are just not nice people... Christians seem to be the most judgmental people on the planet... Christians pretend to be God all the time."

originally posted by: blueyedevilwoman

My spirit is an intimate part of what I am.
Like sex....I choose who I want to be with.
And threats of violence against my spirit do not work on me.

God gave us brains for a reason.

That's right. It's ultimately your choice.

originally posted by: trollz
There's tons I could say about Christianity, but I just wanted to leave this amusing little tidbit regarding Hell.
Next time a Christian tries to scare you into following their belief with the idea of eternal Hell, steer the conversation like this:
"Does God love me?"
"Well of course he does, he loves everyone unconditionally."
"Can God do anything?"
"Of course he can do anything, he's God."
"So then if God loves me, and God can do anything, God can choose to take me to Heaven instead of send me to Hell, right?"
And then of course they'll try to tell you that whether or not you go to Heaven or Hell is entirely your choice and not something God can intervene in, at which point you can remind them that "God can do anything, right? If he wants me to go to Heaven, he can take me to Heaven."

I have the same theory as you. An omnipotent God needs absolutely nothing from us. I always wondered if the "good news" was not that Jesus dying for our sins but Jesus was saying you do not have to buy your absolution from the temple. The idea that each of us is capable of achieving absolution without a priest is about a revolutionary as you can get 2000 years ago. Just splitting hairs over church doctrine doesn't seem like enough to get you crucified. But taking away the churches cash cow at the temple is certainly going to get some attention during ancient times.

And besides, it's a really nice thought. Everyone is forgiven. Everyone is loved. I argued this with someone and they said without the threat of Hell people would not act morally. My thinking is people who behave morally are not doing so because of the threat of Hell. I think people are just vindictive and are really interested in taking pleasure in the idea that people will suffer in the afterlife so justice is finally served. People are vengeful and full of hate. I think God would not be this way.

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Christians seem to be the most judgmental people on the planet.

That has by FAR been my experience in life. It also seems to me that they tend to be of lower average intelligence.

My wife's friends from Virginia are really religious. They can be so judgmental it's amazing. They have no forgiveness for anyone in the lower classes.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: blueyedevilwoman

So effectively you are just upset that there are rules
I get that

He raised some very good questions deserving serious questions.

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Christians are just not nice people.

Jesus was keenly aware that imperfect humans often have a tendency to be judgmental. He counseled: “Stop judging that you may not be judged.” (Matt. 7:1) Notice that Jesus did not say: “Do not judge”; he said: “Stop judging.” He knew that many of his listeners were already in the habit of being critical of others. Could it be that you have developed such a habit?

No. I don't judge other people. I think everyone deserves to benefit of the doubt. But what I don't understand is the people who claim to be the most loving, the most forgiving, and just the opposite. Yes, I am aware of the Jesus's teaching about judging other people. It's like everything having to do with Christianity. It seems to me the people ignore the lessons and are really just fans of Jesus on the surface.

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: blueyedevilwoman

My spirit is an intimate part of what I am.
Like sex....I choose who I want to be with.
And threats of violence against my spirit do not work on me.

God gave us brains for a reason.

That's right. It's ultimately your choice.

I think the good news is God uses his infinite powers of love and forgiveness to allow everything through the gates of heaven to experience eternal heavenly bliss regardless of our earthly sins or we practiced or not practice our religion. I think God's infinite powers allows everyone to be saved. Sin is irrelevant to an omnipotent God. An omnipotent God needs absolutely nothing from us.

I think it's a question of faith. Your faith is weaker than mine if you think God is not going to forgive you for your sins. Just saying a few words in a particular order is really irrelevant. I think people put all these rules on religion to manipulate people into giving their time, money, and energy to the church.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
But what I don't understand is the people who claim to be the most loving, the most forgiving, and just the opposite. Yes, I am aware of the Jesus's teaching about judging other people. It's like everything having to do with Christianity. It seems to me the people ignore the lessons and are really just fans of Jesus on the surface.

My last comment on this forum in my own thread also addresses this phenomenon of hypocricy in human behaviour. It, just like my previous comments in this thread, also contains clues regarding both motive and cause, which could help with your described lack of understanding. Possibly more so if compared with one another (and the link about the entity called "Babylon the Great" where hypocricy is rampant, and the cause and motives are further discussed there regarding that specific entity and those caught in that 'snare').

He is a liar! (part 1 of 2)

The above link is a playlist, you may want to start at the beginning here though:

Real science, knowledge of realities compared to philosophies and stories