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Retail Apocalypse Hitting America - More Jobs Lost to Automation

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posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

Truck driving will be gone in a decade with self driving cars.

But how will the Amazon packages get from the self-driving car to the front porch? The drones?




posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 03:37 PM
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Classic capitalism. Back in the day these major retailers benefited from this system. They managed to shut down as many mom and pop stores as they could. Now Amazon and Google have basically used capitalism to claw their way to the top. Except these companies will be the final advent of the industry. I like capitalism... but unfortunately it only benefits those with the most profits to invest in the future.


Luckily I started my own business that won't be replaced by automation within the next 10 or 15 years, so I should be ok as long as I don't get lazy lol.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: Olivine

originally posted by: Aazadan

Truck driving will be gone in a decade with self driving cars.

But how will the Amazon packages get from the self-driving car to the front porch? The drones?


Yes.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 03:54 PM
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That will never change. Automation and technology are going to keep rising up. More education and skillets for the new ages are needed. We're entering an Entrepreneurial/Information/Service Age. Retail and Manufacturing jobs are never coming back...not like they were.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: soficrow
Just a quick reminder. Robotics and automation aren't just taking peoples' jobs in mining, manufacturing, food service, the professions and transportation. There's a Retail Apocalypse hitting America - and who knows how many jobs are being lost?

The internet automates shopping online - people like it - and humans need not apply. Visits to malls declined by 50% between 2010 and 2013.

"More than 3,500 stores are expected to close across the US in the next couple of months. Department stores like Macy's, Sears, and JCPenney, and retailers including BCBG, Abercrombie & Fitch, and Bebe have all been forced to close up dozens of stores. ...Sears plans to shutter 108 Kmart stores and 42 Sears stores by April. Macy's is closing 68 locations in early 2017. JCPenney is closing 138 stores early this year. Wet Seal is closing all 171 locations. Crocs is closing 160 locations." And the list goes on.

Truth be told, there aren't going to be many jobs for people soon. ...Then what?

Elon Musk says automation will force governments to introduce Universal Basic Income (UBI). But will that do the trick?


The "Retail Apocalypse" Is Officially Descending Upon America

....Another reason retail brick and mortars are failing is the growth of e-commerce. Between 2010 and 2013, visits to shopping malls declined 50%, according to data from real estate research firm Cushman and Wakefield. Meanwhile, online sales from huge online outposts, like Amazon, have exploded.



Elon Musk: Automation Will Force Governments to Introduce Universal Basic Income

... displacement due to automation isn’t just limited to transportation, it will sweep across a number of industries, and Musk argues that the government must introduce a UBI program in order to compensate for this. “I don’t think we’re going to have a choice,” he said. “I think it’s going to be necessary. There will be fewer and fewer jobs that a robot cannot do better.”



And Payless Shoes.

This is all a punnishment for not getting along and keeping wages down and allowing poverty for both the poor and middle class. The only one's who are aimed to really live in comfort are those that don't have to rely on e-commerce and have the land and know how to self sustain who kept strong relationships with family members and close friends. Many of the wealthy techs have doomsday shelters/houses with all they need. Have had them for years. They have their own helos, boats, you name it.

Humans in many ways are like robots who download information. Apparently we were created to serve each other in the light of love. The programming became infected. Then lies were injected into our reality to foster inner turmoil. Now most people are in that turmoil.

As a result there are two ways to go. Replace people with machines and be the person that supports that or do some soul searching and say how sorry you are for being so rebellious.

If you support the high tech machines taking jobs, they eventually over power their human operators. If you repent and realize your part in error, God will take you back and home with open arms.

Those that are dealing out the high tech with all the know how, are the fallen angels. They will never bow down to a human in the form of God. They will never let a human in their clique. People not giving a crap about other people helped empower them and now they are taking over. God is allowing this to reveal everyone's heart. You are either with Jesus Christ, or against Him and with the fallen angels who are for the high tech machines.

Only the angels and God can survive technology. Humans cannot. And do not.

You'll never genuinely ever be accepted by an angel. Only genuinely accepted by God. So don't be fooled. If they integrate a human to into a machine, you're not human anymore and still under their enslavement because you will never be like them.

Humans being of God do not need any angel to give them a message from God. Humans are divine and can speak directly to God as Jesus Christ is one with the Father. Read the Book of John.

Stay away from all Angels at this time. Stay the straightway in one book. The Book of John. That's it. A precious jewel among other books filled with crudeness and hatred and doubt. One Book is all it took.

This planet is way too much like a testing ground. A huge lab. Made for all human's to create and study and have fun in but it has been sabatoged with making the concept of serving others a bad and degrading thing. It's not. It is beautiful if everyone's heart is right. But most hearts have either become jealous or over come with sadness.

Much love to everyone.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: soficrow


E commerce is about ten per cent of retail sales, so the drop in Retail cant be blamed on E commerce alone. The general population have run out of cash, and demand is falling off a cliff. It had to happen at some time, and a Universal basic income wont cut it simply because the money hasn't been earned . Localised food production, at the market level, will develop, as the shopping malls die. Back to basics.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
That will never change. Automation and technology are going to keep rising up. More education and skillets for the new ages are needed. We're entering an Entrepreneurial/Information/Service Age. Retail and Manufacturing jobs are never coming back...not like they were.


We used to make steel in this country, now we make happy meals. What can we manufacture in America with the infrastructure rusting away, outdated and obsolete. What kind of jobs will Trump bring back. Tech is moving to India,
Manufacturing to China. What's left?



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 04:52 PM
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As far as retail, the US has more retail space per person than any other nation. It is completely over-built. Look what the majority of closings are. Top of the list is Payless. Next comes Radio Shack. between the two that's half the stores. Both these chains are junk stores selling junk merchandise. It's time for these chains to go away. It's not a bad thing for them to go away. The herd needs to be culled of poor performers. The next tier is Sears and JC Pennys. These guys are more important because they are often anchor stores for malls, which means if they go, the malls will go soon after.


The US has 23.5 square feet of retail space per person, compared with 16.4 square feet in Canada and 11.1 square feet in Australia, the next two countries with the highest retail space per capita, according to a Morningstar report from October.

Visits to shopping malls have been declining for years with the rise of e-commerce and titanic shifts in how shoppers spend their money. Visits declined by 50% between 2010 and 2013, according to the real-estate research firm Cushman & Wakefield.
Source

But weren't y'all telling us yesterday how bad malls are? I thought you said malls were exploitative, ruined the shopping experience, were bad for Mom & Pops, etc. So are they good or bad? It's not that people have stopped shopping. They have just stopped shopping at these outlets and all these outlets have an online presence. Online is where it's at. Why do I have to waste gas to go to Home Depot when I can order the same thing from the same place and have it shipped? I thought we were suppose to conserve resources use less gas, etc.? Well? That's what I'm doing. The automobile ushered in an apocalypse for blacksmiths. but these days no one sheds a tear over what happened to them.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: NthOther

So?



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 04:57 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: amazing
That will never change. Automation and technology are going to keep rising up. More education and skillets for the new ages are needed. We're entering an Entrepreneurial/Information/Service Age. Retail and Manufacturing jobs are never coming back...not like they were.


We used to make steel in this country, now we make happy meals. What can we manufacture in America with the infrastructure rusting away, outdated and obsolete. What kind of jobs will Trump bring back. Tech is moving to India,
Manufacturing to China. What's left?



What's left is to move on from Manufacturing and there will always be some low end retail, fast food jobs. Those are training grounds as your studying and learning new skills...like sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, programming, self defense, fitness, yoga, cooking, management, leadership, business planning, etc etc.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 04:57 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: amazing
That will never change. Automation and technology are going to keep rising up. More education and skillets for the new ages are needed. We're entering an Entrepreneurial/Information/Service Age. Retail and Manufacturing jobs are never coming back...not like they were.


We used to make steel in this country, now we make happy meals. What can we manufacture in America with the infrastructure rusting away, outdated and obsolete. What kind of jobs will Trump bring back. Tech is moving to India,
Manufacturing to China. What's left?



What's left is to move on from Manufacturing and there will always be some low end retail, fast food jobs. Those are training grounds as your studying and learning new skills...like sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, programming, self defense, fitness, yoga, cooking, management, leadership, business planning, etc etc.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 05:16 PM
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originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: soficrow

Any company that introduces automation to replace a worker has pretty much lost my business.


Meaning you don't use banks, and haven't in how many years?



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: soficrow

originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: soficrow

Any company that introduces automation to replace a worker has pretty much lost my business.


Meaning you don't use banks, and haven't in how many years?





Or bought a car



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: Olivine
One segment of the job market that is growing and will continue to grow, as more brick and mortar shops close down, is transportation and logistics; the people who drive the trucks and deliver your online purchases. You don't need a higher education to do the job and can still make 6 figures, with really good benefits.

Plus, more trucks on the roads, mean more road maintenance jobs, and all of the imports from overseas keep the longshoremen at the ports employed.

Small, but a silver lining nonetheless.


Erm. No.

Self-driving vehicles. Might change everything the most, first.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 05:35 PM
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I knew 20+ years ago when they initiated the self-checkouts everything was headed in that direction. These companies and corporations essentially want cost free operations.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
I knew 20+ years ago when they initiated the self-checkouts everything was headed in that direction. These companies and corporations essentially want cost free operations.


Robots aren't cost free by a long shot, but they are bitch free. If I have a choice between a checker and self-check out I'll choose self every time.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

What do they cost with exception to initial cost and yearly maintenance? What about the other 51 weeks of the year? Yeah, pretty cost free
edit on 24-3-2017 by SpeakerofTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:48 PM
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originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: schuyler

What do they cost with exception to initial cost and yearly maintenance? What about the other 51 weeks of the year? Yeah, pretty cost free


Just a single industrial robot arm (that's not a toy) costs between $50,000 and $75,000 dollars and that's without any significant programming and it's just an arm. Yearly maintenance on sophisticated equipment is usually between 12% and 15% of the cost of the hardware. Software is in addition and incurs its own yearly maintenance fees. For the kind of robot that are used as welders in auto manufacturing, the cost is at least ten times that amount per unit and will require on-site troubleshooting personnel as well. The cost of a singe check-out station at Home Depot is considerably less, but there will always be a human to intervene on one of those lines. Right now with a significant roll-out over many stores at once you can probably run a check-out system for about $12.00 an hour. The lifespan of a single system is on the order of ten years before obsolescence sets in and they need to be replaced. By that time hardware costs will probably have gone down and software prices will have gone up.

So, no, not cost free. I can tell you have no experience in this field at all. Study the issue a bit before you try pretending you're an expert on it.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: soficrow

I don't know Soficrow. I work for a small manufacturing company and we're going to have to make a couple of hires in the next few months. So I've been asking around, trying to get a feel for what the employee pool is like. Other manufacturers are telling me they need help but can't find it. The lady at the state employment service told me basically the same, lots of people looking for work but employers in manufacturing saying they can't find anyone qualified.

We'll probably skip looking of anyone highly skilled and opt for someone honest, conscientious about their work, and willing and able to learn. Those minimums won't be easy to find if what other manufacturers are saying is true. Even then, if I find someone like that, it will take me a year to train them to the point where they're not a serious drain on my time, where doing the job myself would only be slightly more time consuming.

So I don't see a shortage of manufacturing jobs, but a shortage of skilled people. And a lot of times when we make decisions to automate, it's because we can't find the help. Automation isn't cheap. And more often than you might think it has its practical limits.

For example, if one employee runs one machine at 20.00 an hour, that puts are labor costs for that machines production at 20.00 an hour. If we automate, make it possible for him to tend 2 machines it's 10.00 an hour, three machines is something just under 7.00 and 4 machines reduces our labor costs per machine to 5.00 an hour. Not bad, we can pay a fair amount to automate a process to that point. But guess what? At 5 machines our reduction in labor costs only drops to 4.00 per hour. Now the amount we can pay in automation costs beyond that point starts to drop drastically.

Is more employees better? Sometimes and in some ways it is. If I've got a choice between 2 guys running 8 machines or one guy running 8 machines I'm going to opt for the 2 guys running 8. Why?

First the reduction in labor costs beyond 4 machines is relatively small. Second the amount I'm going to have to invest in automation and fixturing for that automation is going to be less. Third, having two people trained to do the job makes me less vulnerable to being stuck without anyone to run any of the machines.

So again, in my experience automation has real world practical limits. And sometime dollars and cents aren't the only basis for making a decision on whether to automate or not and to what degree.

And, I know the stories about the robots/machines that work day and night for weeks on end producing perfect parts without human intervention and without a hiccup. But guess what? That's a minority. Most require a great deal more human intervention than the sales people let on. In practical real world terms, we're a long way away from a manufacturing landscape devoid of substantial numbers of humans. In fact, as I mentioned above, we don't really have enough humans as it stand now.

Lastly, customers are ordering smaller quantities more often. They want to minimize the inventory they're holding. This significantly increases the difficulty of automating the role of human operators out of existence.

So again Soficrow, I know you spend a lot of time on this topic. But from my perspective, we're still a long way away from the world you describe, certainly not in your or my lifetime, and much longer if the progression is broken at any time in the future.

Hey, we may even decide that progression to the point you write of so often isn't desirable and artificially retard it or even stop it. I've heard people say, "what we need is more brick streets" and maybe they're right.

Always enjoy your threads Soficrow. Take care








edit on 24-3-2017 by imwilliam because: can't add



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 09:16 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: underwerks
Open a bar. That's the only service industry that actually grows the worse the job market gets.


Lmao?!?

What stops a machine from making mixed drinks????

Nothing...


Hell that would be infinitely cheaper than one that handles the grill. At McDonald's..

Even the jobs that seem to require a human are really only "seem to require a human for now.."

Nothing at all. But people don't go to bars to have drinks mixed for them. You can do that at home. Bars and boutique eateries will be the only food service businesses left once automation fully takes over.

Drinking from a vending machine isn't that fun.




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