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How Bad Is It For Trumpcare and the Republican Party

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posted on Mar, 27 2017 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Thank you for that, At a basic level I understand the problems you have laid out.
It's a lot to digest but I have to get to work or I would like to write a more in depth reply.
I read one of your earlier post's that talked about your having to choose between med's for either you or your wife..terrible thing to have to deal with and it's not right.
The situation is terribly complex..I wish you and your wife well in your health matters.




posted on Mar, 27 2017 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: vonclod

Thank you. If we can get past the partisan bickering and focus on each others' realities, nothing is unfixable.

As for the meds: it was an easy decision. I'm a redneck... we survive. It's just what we do. She's not, so she gets what she needs. Last checkup, my doc released me for the time being... meds not needed, no more talk of double bypass. He wants to stick another stent in this June or July... we'll have to see.

I look forward to a more detailed response after you get home.


TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 28 2017 @ 04:17 PM
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response to veracity:




I've already explained part of my problem with ACA but if you MUST know, there are few choices of insurance, high deductibles, and contrary to your post, no free check ups. None of the local doctors are in network on my plan ((it's the only plan I can afford). About the only thing it is good for is emergency room visits. So basically I pay for insurance that is useless to me. I already explained that to you in my first post on this thread. No, I am not a business owner. I am basically dirt poor. We wouldn't even waste the money on internet if my partner's kids didn't need it for school. There have been times I could have used that money for other things like FOOD. Yes, we are that poor. At times scraping together spare change to put gas in the car. Spending money on something (mandatory) that I can't even use is a pure waste.
edit on 28-3-2017 by Khaleesi because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-3-2017 by Khaleesi because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-3-2017 by Khaleesi because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2017 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: Khaleesi


Ahhhh...you live in a red state where the republican gobs didn't expand Medicaid (at your expense)

Sorry you are a victim of the corrupt red govs.

Don't vote for them again.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: veracity

If he's eligible for Obamacare, he's not eligible for the expanded Medicaid, whether his state expanded it or not. The fact he has to buy insurance is proof your assumption is incorrect.

You do know what you are supporting, right? Right?

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: veracity

If he's eligible for Obamacare, he's not eligible for the expanded Medicaid, whether his state expanded it or not. The fact he has to buy insurance is proof your assumption is incorrect.

You do know what you are supporting, right? Right?

TheRedneck


If he is too poor for insurance or does not make enough money, according to Obamacare (how its working in the blue states)...they get on medicaid. His insurance would be free.

medicaid was NOT expanded in the red states (bc the republican govs chose not to expand it to try and derail the ACA) and so many poor people do not have insurance and premiums are sky high.

If he lives in a blue state or a state that expanded medicaid and he makes enough money to not be on medicaid then he's got to quit living outside his means and get insurance.

I know what I am supporting...yes
edit on 29-3-2017 by veracity because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-3-2017 by veracity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: veracity

Maybe you should try reading his post them. He specifically states he is paying for something that is useless to him. If he's paying, he's not on Medicaid. If he's required to pay, he wouldn't be eligible for Medicaid.

And yes, I know about the states that didn't expand Medicaid. I live in one. Maybe somebody should have thought about that before they passed the thing. I'm also glad you are fully aware that you are supporting corrupt insurance companies at the expense of prosperity and health care for people.

TheRedneck

edit on 3/29/2017 by TheRedneck because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: veracity

Perhaps you are not aware that the same problems exist in states where Medicade was expanded. Our Governor was one of the first to jump on that bandwagon. And now, not only have premiums for those who are not eligible for Medicade doubled over the past two years, the choices have dwindled to one, possibly two, in most counties. There are lots of working people who make enough to be disqualified but have obligations for the money that is now going toward their insurance. They may have bought the bare bones policy because that was what they could afford at the time. Now---after paying the ever-rising premiums for three years and because of the high deductible, never filing a claim---they are struggling. They don't see the insurance as a blessing at all but a burden.

I'm uninsured by choice. When I go to a health provider, we talk about costs. I'm a big fan of bargaining. I have never had a doc refuse cash and I've never had one refuse to drop the costs upon being offered payment at the time of services rendered with no further paperwork for him or his staff. They're not dummies, they know that $100 in the hand is better than a bill for $200 that must be processed.

I'm with Redneck. I would outlaw health insurance and watch the costs come tumbling down. Hospitals and medical offices would be laying people off by the droves, driving down personnel costs. Docs and patients would have to discuss thoroughly the need for many, many medical tests. Most young people don't require $5000 in medical care per year. I'm a fossil and I don't require $5k/yr. in medical expenses so I'm danged sure not going to pay an insurance company $10k/yr. for no service.

I am a big supporter of free clinics. I believe that everyone should have health care. To that end, I assisted in designing and implementing a plan for a local free clinic for the uninsured. Attached to that free clinic is a network of medical professionals who will make sure that the patient gets the care they need without incurring disabling debt if at all possible. We will celebrate our 18th year of operation this year. At this point most of our non-professional volunteers are people who have been patients in the past. There is even an off-shoot group that raises funds to buy bus passes for those who can't afford the bus ride to the clinic.

There are ways to make health care affordable but having government take it over ain't on that list. That way there be dragons....



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 08:10 AM
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originally posted by: diggindirt
There are ways to make health care affordable but having government take it over ain't on that list. That way there be dragons....
That's fine if you have a boo-boo. What about catastrophic illness?



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: veracity

Perhaps you are not aware that the same problems exist in states where Medicade was expanded. Our Governor was one of the first to jump on that bandwagon. And now, not only have premiums for those who are not eligible for Medicade doubled over the past two years, the choices have dwindled to one, possibly two, in most counties. There are lots of working people who make enough to be disqualified but have obligations for the money that is now going toward their insurance. They may have bought the bare bones policy because that was what they could afford at the time. Now---after paying the ever-rising premiums for three years and because of the high deductible, never filing a claim---they are struggling. They don't see the insurance as a blessing at all but a burden.

I'm uninsured by choice. When I go to a health provider, we talk about costs. I'm a big fan of bargaining. I have never had a doc refuse cash and I've never had one refuse to drop the costs upon being offered payment at the time of services rendered with no further paperwork for him or his staff. They're not dummies, they know that $100 in the hand is better than a bill for $200 that must be processed.

I'm with Redneck. I would outlaw health insurance and watch the costs come tumbling down. Hospitals and medical offices would be laying people off by the droves, driving down personnel costs. Docs and patients would have to discuss thoroughly the need for many, many medical tests. Most young people don't require $5000 in medical care per year. I'm a fossil and I don't require $5k/yr. in medical expenses so I'm danged sure not going to pay an insurance company $10k/yr. for no service.

I am a big supporter of free clinics. I believe that everyone should have health care. To that end, I assisted in designing and implementing a plan for a local free clinic for the uninsured. Attached to that free clinic is a network of medical professionals who will make sure that the patient gets the care they need without incurring disabling debt if at all possible. We will celebrate our 18th year of operation this year. At this point most of our non-professional volunteers are people who have been patients in the past. There is even an off-shoot group that raises funds to buy bus passes for those who can't afford the bus ride to the clinic.

There are ways to make health care affordable but having government take it over ain't on that list. That way there be dragons....


There is no "bare bones policy" with the ACA. If you cannot afford insurance then sell downsize your house, car, lifestyle. Your health is more important than that. Sad that we need laws to enforce people to be responsible.

Sorry I have no patience with people who live outside their means, especially at the risk of their health/life, or the risk of their childrens heatlh/life.

Free clinics would be the best...ideal (single-payer). The ACA is a step closer to that. Please do not rally to dismatle something that you clearly believe in.
edit on 30-3-2017 by veracity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: veracity


If you cannot afford insurance then sell downsize your house, car, lifestyle. Your health is more important than that. Sad that we need laws to enforce people to be responsible.

It's sad that we have people in this country... no, on this planet... that either cannot or will not understand that there is more to healthy living than buying an insurance policy. There's things like eating well, having a warm shelter, and affording medication when needed.

You apparently don't give a damn about anyone's health, or you would never make that statement. You would never advocate destroying one's lifestyle just to pad some insurance CEOs pocket. I honestly can't believe that anyone could ever have the unmitigated gall to suggest that insurance is more important than shelter, food, transportation to a healthy life.


Sorry I have no patience with people who live outside their means, especially at the risk of their health/life, or the risk of their childrens heatlh/life.

And I have no patience for anyone who thinks they are the ultimate arbitrator of what others need.

Sorry, I already have a God. His name is not veracity.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Don't you think one American should have a choice if they should pay for anothers health insurance? Do you like high priced pharmaceuticals?


Do you know how insurance works!



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

"There's things like eating well, having a warm shelter, and affording medication when needed." sorry that is a given, everyone should already be doing that. However, that does not help too much when you have pnemonia, cancer, flue or a bacterial infection. Take care of yourself and loved ones...get freakin' insurance. Love, God, Health food and working out alone is not enough. INSURANCE!

I dont know or care what you think you need, all i know is that EVERYONE needs access to insurance, affordable insurance. If you do not think you do, then your priorities are whack.

A healthy life is not obtained on GOD alone. Be responsible. Do not live outside your means. Take care of yourself...all things i imagine Jesus saying.

Dont listen to me, i dont care...listen to Jesus.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: veracity

That's the whole point... you just said people should give up housing and good food so they can buy insurance!

Do you even read your posts?

You're right about one thing: someone's priorities are indeed "whack." You just proved that.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I am sorry, i think translation gets lost.

Housing and good food should not be given up of course.

I am talking about housing in the sense that you live in a 5-6 bdr. house with 4 car garage in an expensive part of town with a mercedes, Hummer, boat with no health coverage so you can have an "image" you want all the while you only have a family of 3 that you have to take care of.

See, people close to me in my family are doing this, they have huge houses on a golf course (pay the fees and dont even play golf) yes borrow money from my poor mother every month saying "do not tell my husband about this". They are clearly living outside their means so they have an "image", they want to portray themselves as wealthy and secure when really they are stupid and frail. Insurance is not their issue bc they get it from their jobs but they still live outside of their means and have to borrow money each month.

I hope you understand better. Im not saying you are like my family, but insurance was meant to be affordable. If you cannot afford it then that usually means you are living outside your means. However, the republican govs fuct this up so bad that its not affordable anymore for the average person.


edit on 30-3-2017 by veracity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: defiythelie

Naw. Go on, educate me.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: veracity

Perhaps you don't know how free clinics work---ours is free to patients---no "single payer" but by donations and an auxiliary business set up to finance the clinic. It is run by volunteers, a combination of professional and non-professional support teams. It is much like the old charity hospitals that were run by religious organizations but this one is set up and run by community volunteers of all religions (and no religions). We donate money and time to help those who can't afford health care. We don't give them insurance---just care.

As for your knowledge of what constitutes "living outside their means" I would suggest that you are mistaken. Why should people have to reduce their lifestyle to pay for someone else's poor lifestyle choices? These young people are healthy, they take care of themselves and don't have to have $5000 worth of health care per year. They were well within their budgets just three years ago so what has changed? Was it them who raised their premiums 110% over the past three years? NO! It was the insurance companies. What was formerly costing them $200/month is now over $400/month. They've adjusted their budgets and reduced the amount they are putting away for retirement and now they struggle not because of their choices but because the government tells them they MUST buy insurance that includes coverage they will NEVER need. For example, it is just plain stupid for a woman to have to pay for maternity care when it is a medical impossibility that she will ever need it.

I'm well aware that there are plenty of folks out there living beyond their means. I have them in my family too but they are not paying insurance premiums, they're living mostly off their fellow citizens.

Just so you understand: Not having healthcare insurance is NOT risking one's health. It is risking one's financial future should a catastrophic illness occur. For most of the population simple, commonsense measures will work to avoid those types of situations. If you are depending on an insurance company to keep you healthy, your faith is badly misplaced.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: diggindirt
There are ways to make health care affordable but having government take it over ain't on that list. That way there be dragons....
That's fine if you have a boo-boo. What about catastrophic illness?


That is why they should be offered a catastrophic policy, something Obamacare wiped out for all practical purposes.

Do you expect your car insurance to pay for oil changes? Your house insurance to pay for repainting the house?



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt

"Why should people have to reduce their lifestyle to pay for someone else's poor lifestyle choices? "

These young people are not paying for anyone elses health care but their own. Everyone pays for their own. If you want to look at it as you are also paying for the poor and their poor choices, that is your problem, sorry you see it that way.

The only thing that changed is that the republican govs tried to derail Obamacare by not expanding medicaid (I feel like a broken record) at the expense of American people. With that derailment came huge insurance premiums in the red states. People like to blame it on Obama, but its the republicans in office. I can only hope Trump and his cronies can get their sh# together to force the mandate to expand medicaid so we no longer have this issue.

Not having healthcare is irresponsible and also risking your health.

Clearly we see things differently, i see where you are coming from and it sounds pretty miserable.

Good luck with you life and your health (care)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: veracity

I seriously hope the translation got lost!

I see people living outside their means all around me as well... but typically, these people do have insurance through their jobs, as in the case you mention. That's a financial issue, not a healthcare issue.

But I also know people, including myself, who are not living in huge houses and driving fancy cars, but are still too poor to afford insurance. They are the ones who need to be addressed, and a bill that just says "buy insurance or else" isn't doing much to help them. Below a certain level, Obamacare does nothing but tell the states to expand Medicaid, which many can't do and others do not agree with the concept. Above that, Obamacare offers a website that lets people buy insurance directly, and offers a tax credit to help pay for it. Tax credits are nice, but you can't pay a bill with them. How do I pay money in April that I won't have for another year? I can't.

Obamacare also restricts what kind of insurance people have to have. Sure, that makes sure people don't circumvent the law by buying some stripped-down policy that does no good, but it also increases the cost of the plans. That's led to a price war between insurers that is quickly driving smaller ones out of the market and leaving a monopoly in place that will certainly raise rates even higher. Monopolies do that, and in this case the monopoly has a captive audience. Normally, a price war would benefit the consumer (at least at first), but since everyone is forced to buy instead of having the option to say no, even in a price war the prices are inflated.


Im not saying you are like my family, but insurance was meant to be affordable. If you cannot afford it then that usually means you are living outside your means.

Oh, I'm apparently nothing like your family. I live in a mobile home (that needs repairs I can't afford), and drive a 15 year old Buick that I maintain myself. That doesn't mean I can afford insurance.

Insurance cannot be more affordable than healthcare on average. It simply isn't possible. Any insurer will make a profit and have overhead costs, in addition to paying out claims. That means the cost of insurance will always be more than the cost of the claims. Insurance itself is supposed to operate like a lottery; everybody contributes a small amount, but only the unlucky have to use it. With medical care, everyone is having to use it, so it does little good in making health care affordable. All it does is add a middleman.


However, the republican govs fuct this up so bad that its not affordable anymore for the average person.

Obamacare is a Democratic law. The Republicans were (thankfully) unable to pass their bastardization of a bastardization. The party in power is probably the single most irrelevant issue to making something work, but trying to blame one party for something that is considered the flagship of the other is just... ridiculous.

TheRedneck




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