Animals Acknowledge Good and Evil: Why Don't You?

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Hey BigBrother: But just cause it's a concept with a name doesn't mean it's true, real or valid.....perhaps valid is the best word.

Surely the concept of multi verses existing shows that there are far more possibilities, and it is far more complex than simple duality, the opposite ends of the spectrum. For that says we are ignoring the Spectrum of possibilities that exist within and combat and fight each other as well as react to one another to produce ever more incumbent possibilities all alone the total spectrum...
Regards,
tetra

Monkeys are some of the most vicious, jealous animals that exist. Wolves eat their prey butt-hole first.
Animals are just as evil as humans, if not worse in some instances. Then, of course, evil is nothing more than a term created by a human brain and we all agreed to go alone with it.

A blood washed wolf probably thinks you and your tar roads and muffler exhaust are evil.

a reply to: Flesh699
Beg to differ, Flesh. Surely there is some distinction between "nature" and evil.....for they are not quite the same.
The nature of us all here and what we must do to survive, as you've described survival instincts in different species according to their needs and habitat, is one thing. Evil is something that goes against the grain of the survival instinct, defines something separate and part, disparate and quite difficult to discern, I will agree on that last...but nonetheless does exist.

But your post is illuminating for another reason, as it demonstrates what a slippery slope it is to identify what is evil and what is not...
Regards,
tetra

originally posted by: Specimen

Duality a funny thing so as long as your not the monkey in the middle.

What? I can't see; what you are saying.

a reply to: tetra50

It's a valid subject in the conceptual thing we call knowledge but such a thing goes on to infinity, in created notions and ideas and expanding on them with names given to some idea of form. To concept it's a chair but to a cat? It's still a tree to climb around on. But not really because chair and tree do not exist to a cat but yet they do. The mind can either dwell in the subjective infinity of concepts that bring with it a virtual non stop stream of suffering... or it can dwell in the absolute in peace and silence the same as the cat, the same as babies do, but yet full knowledge of the subjective is there if needed to do one thing... communicate. Otherwise the mind goes right back to the peaceful solitude of mental quiessence.

Such a state can be developed, where seen is just seen nothing else comes with it and there is nothing there on it's arising it is left as it is, untouched and untainted by the mind... hearing can be developed the same where one des not discriminate sounds arising and passing like a horn, alarm etc etc. it's just sound arising and passing... the same can be develped in the other senses, touch where there is no difference in sensations like pain or pleasure bias. But all of that is contact... being subjected to the subjective reality by the mind attached to it? Then all of that differentation arises and causes suffering... not attached to that conceptual string... then what is there to be subject or slave to? The present moment of what is arising and passing in the absolute reality always there, but hidden or covered up by mental sensory blah blah blah.

None of the mental sensory blah blah blah can ever be the absolute reality because it deals with defining it by the subjective reality... so one must use the subjective to try and point to the absolute... as much of a futility as that seems? It does help those ignorant of such a thing existing, and in that pointing... someone can say oh well that makes some sense... maybe I will sit down and work on quieting the mind to bring about peace and end all of the suffering such causes myself and in that ignorance also causes in others because I am like a maniac swinging this mind around at others that does not really exist going from past to future up and down bouncing all over run run run chase chase chase... it's exhausting just pointing at it. Doing it? Not something I miss at all.

a reply to: FlukeSkywalker

Aye.

Follow the logic: you are MADE by this 'duality'. Feeling something is MOVING WITH the dynamic.

The dynamic has a direction and flow, just like an ocean stream. The stream changes as a function of the hydrosphere (world ocean dynamics), atmosphere (air dynamics) and geosphere (subterranean dynamics).

See how the ocean jet-stream can only be understood and appreciated in a sytematic sense? The behavior expressed in the mid atlantic, for instance, is related to behavior in the pacific. They are ontologically "locked" into one another, because they are subject to the same constraints - gravity (Earth), radiation from the sun as well as the core of the earth.

You, your emotions, etc - i.e., you personal conviction that "its all a lie", is a FUNCTION - an EMERGENT PROPERTY - of the feelings, emotions, contexts, situations, responses, and reactions, that derive from your development as a person.

You are completely being determined, yet deny that you are being determined. You do something, lets call it A, and then deny that A changes how you feel - thus affecting how you reference the world following A's effects.

For instance, we can think of this in terms of murder. Before killing someone, you probably have the normal Human emotions about killing. We can call this A. A needs to be suppressed by B - which desperately wants the recognition and the affective energy that comes from "being one of the group". Here, B - or the 'self-state' eager to kill someone, derives from actual real-life interactions you actually once had. Since insecurity/Fear will naturally present itself in contexts populated by people who kill - the insecurity state will induce an "accommodation" self-organizing pattern: you will now become 'open to imprinting" by your context. The killers will persuade a self-state into formation which is symmetrical - correlated - to theirs, so that there very same motivation/perception dynamic which generates their self-state, will also come to operate in you.

To return again to my example: B - or the self state deriving from a correlating social-paradigm (which makes the feeling of pride possible) is motivated to suppress A - the normal affective inclination i.e. instinct - which sees murder as dangerous - and for good reason (arrogant Humans treat their body as if it were some tabula rasa - a blank state) - in being suppressed, leads to the SUCCESS of B in suppressing A.

OK, action completed. That's it, right? No, my friend. You are now self-organizing to a new reality, to which every new-killer will have to adapt towards. Facts aren't neutral: when we violate a core principle of our brains own dynamics, the brain has to now "cut-off" aperception of the self-state - or instinct towards being good and kind - because this state is now in a major existential conflict with it's own inner truth: that they killed someone.

Thus, killing, or the success of B in suppressing A, generates a new self state - C: the state you seem to be existing in and referencing reality from.

You say "in order to feel something", which is a classic derealization-depersonalization symptom, known to any therapist or traumatologist as a veritable consequence of 'affect-overload". Affects - or emotions - cost energy. The brain-stem has a safeguard for these trauma-experiences, which functions to cut-off conscious perception of dynamics that are dysregulating the body-minds homeostasis.

The illusion, then, is not in me, obviously.

The illusion is and has always been about what Human beings are - and how this sense of being "cut-off" from you body, generates an epistemological and ontological falsehood: that reality is really "two", with Ahura Mazda (or some other super-ordinate principle which exists 'above' good/evil) at the top. No. A true trinity is not 1+1 = 0, A true reconciliation of opposites does not ignore opposites or pretend that you are above opposites - while having every one of your states-motivations generated within the coordinated dynamics of your brain-mind.

Clearly - this is a cruel trick which you could, and likely will, blame on the "creator".

My sense is that WE - all of us, every one of us, you, me, and the others who have lived and will live again, are deeply responsible for the way the world is today. Recovering or getting over this is about compassion - understanding - patience, although anger, hatred, and violence, will seem like the only solutions to people incredibly out-of-touch with their body/emotions, and so unable to think clearly and soundly.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Sigh.

Did that feel fun to say? "Time is done"? Sounds like something an evil-villain would say in a movie.

You can't even explain your view rationally, yet you persist in believing it.

Doesn't being self-destructive scare you?

originally posted by: Astrocyte
a reply to: FlukeSkywalker

You, your emotions, etc - i.e., you personal conviction that "its all a lie", is a FUNCTION - an EMERGENT PROPERTY - of the feelings, emotions, contexts, situations, responses, and reactions, that derive from your development as a person.

In the face of such adversity; a core personality develops in adapataion, to all not oneself... but that personality does not have to do the expected or the unexpected in the face of all not oneself.

The potential or propensity to act like all others in expected roles is there in each and everyone; simply through exposure, that exposure of course does not mean someone will be as such themselves; although the chances are very high for it to occur; it is not a given, hence the terminology "black sheep". Others that expect a certain type of behavior from someone is depersonalization, where someone is an outcast for not playing the role of doing or being what is expected, by some peer group. If one cannot be themselves; that is the only time depersonalization occurs.

Of course the idea of conformity and peer pressure demands an ideology that all eventually become one homogenious mass of non-differentation... we have already been there as a species in early homonid forms; to go back to that? Is a de-evolution of the species, a regression back into animal forms; of course a lot of group slaughter must occur to distill out all of those different than oneself in some manner... this is why ideology of any sort can become a dangerous thing. At the extreme of every ideology is genocide leaving only one group without any differentation intact.

It is the height of human stupidity to not embrace the vast diversity of all forms of life; simply for some ideal that is unrealistic to attain; of course once it is attained? It requires unconscionable maintence to keep... what some countries today call human rights violations. Of course such a hing would eventually breed itself right out of existence without enough genetic diversity to sustain itself; it would have to resort to cloning. It also would not evolve, progress, or adapt as quick with genetic or ideological diversity.

So all of these various ideologies running around saying they are number one and trying to be number one; are like a body filled with several different viruses all fighting to be the one that kills the host(earth).