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Animals Acknowledge Good and Evil: Why Don't You?

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posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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This will be very brief.

Sometimes, naive minds will find themselves saying "only Humans create good and evil", or something to that effect. Now, a little bit of thought will very easily undo this hyper-unreal point of view, as there is nothing that lives which doesn't form a like/dislike binary, a "good for it", "bad for it" split - that is, there is no creature which doesn't have a basically teleodynamism - a direction to which it's coordinated dynamics move, and the very opposite - anything which obstructs or upsets that essential life-affirming agenda.

Somehow, Human beings have managed to trick themselves into believing that they can "transcend good and evil" - ala Nietzsche wrote a book with just that name. How!!? Is this not the most anthropomorphic hullabaloo nonsense? Yet see how naturally it rolls off tongues into real conversation: the thinkers and speakers really think that they are the source of their motivations, feelings and needs. It is sad and demented - as an expert in this matter - to think of how much in our world goes awry because those who get power are not able to see, appreciate and duly restrain themselves - because a culture exists among the elite which is a paragon case of Human affective dynamics gone haywire.

Watch a Shrew, a duck, a beaver, a mouse, a penguin, a protist, or a bacteria, and the same phenomenon appears again and again - and it isn't surprising, because it is an essential element of the complementary nature - and coordinative dynamics - that underlies the behavior of all living things. Things are coordinated: and guess what? You aren't conscious of the majority of what coordinates your being with Others, yet the meanings - or representations - shared between the "reactive faces" of the macroscopic object called the Human being - is a whole lot of fancy - but ultimately incredibly self-destructive - B.S.

There is now way out of this besides evolution. Evolution created this situation - and now we, as dispersed and situated in different places and contexts as we are - must recognize that this is a truly insane situation to be in. Good and Evil are functions of dynamics. Dynamics are REAL - the follow RULES - and if the mind does not represent those rules with others mind through communication and speech - the rules will keep functioning side-by-side with the lunatic, grandiose, utterly-naive mind which has far too prematurely pronounced the "unknowability" of being and reality.

To think Isaac Newton once said "organisms will never be understood". He spoke too surely. He did not anticipate thermdoynamics, or Darwins theory of evolution, or quantum mechanics, or the astounding insights into the nature of reality provided by dynamical systems theory, etc.

Life IS understandable, and could be contained by a fifth force of the universe, or what could be called the "coordinating dynamics between elements which form a symmetrical system". This is a sort of centripetality which orders energy through the material structures which contain the flow of energy, and yet this structure is so large - so complex - and so, unbelievably coherent, integrated, and resilient against dissolution.

Good and Bad are its inevitable and eternal coordinates. I can either affirm what is the nature of my being (good), or I can deny it.

Denial means denying reality. It means denying this planet, other people, other creatures - essentiall all otherness, since the entirety of what we are, is, as everything else is, a function of normal self-organization processes which have no essential ontological nature that is separate from other structures/processes. Everything fits into everything else. Lunatic philosophies will either, a) remain unknown, and so continue damaging this planet and its many inhabitants b) become known, and become naturally de-selected by sane Humans who understand that a philosophy which denies the other - other Humans, Nature, or other animals, - is structurally and functionally incompatible with the rules which operate and streamline Human existence.

“Natural science will in time incorporate into itself the science of man, just as the science of man will incorporate into itself natural science: there will be one science.” – Karl Marx, Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844,

There is no religion vs. science, or God vs. Man. All of that is delusional - a function of a person ignoring the feelings which first establish the contrariness and oppositionality of their relation - and then simply positing like a mindless automaton as if the feeling state didn't itself constitute a form-of-knowledge i.e. propositionality.

It's trauma. Only trauma splits the world and keeps the world split. The animal in you - the reptile brain - orchestrates a conservative calculus which naive elites imagine that they are the manipulators of - as opposed to being equally manipulated by a fantasy that gives them the false idea of being "neutral" to the situations they act upon, effect, change, and order.

Knowledge is not neutral, or separated from matter, but deeply related to the way matter organizes itself through Human beings. Some claims are in fact wrong - de-correlated with the dynamics and the laws which organize the structure/being. Because all laws are in fact consttituted by "coordinating dynamics", the core complementarity of "top-down" i.e. whole vs. part, which is present in any analysis of any living phenomena, operates as the fractal template in the construction of Human symbolic systems - systems which are born from contraries - complementarities in living - which achieve "symbolization" in the language system.

Everything, indeed, is about the RELATIONSHIP between opposites - the most basic of which, at least for us Humans, is Self vs. Other.




posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 08:24 PM
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And it's all a lie. But you keep believing you need to live in this illusion reality of duality in order to feel something.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 08:46 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

Some animals have a feeling of right and wrong. Any group of social animals will have rules and boundaries, but i have never seen an animal that understood the human concept of good and evil. Sometimes animals kill off anything that might become a threat to them or their brood later on, but i would never label an animal evil. Could you maybe offer up an example?



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

Duality is something foisted upon this world through various means...i laugh when you say we have to accept this or even begin to believe "Evolution" has anything to do with it.

In fact it makes evolution impossible if that is all their is.

I will be transcending your duality...and your foolish laws on the way to destroying the scum who live off of our suffering.

And alot more people and other ENTITIES that they never expected have thoroughly examined it all and ALL agree...duality is the biggest and most terrible torture ever foisted upon any creatures.

TIME is done.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 09:37 PM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

I would be interested in hearing where you learned what you wrote about in terms of duality. And what do you mean by "time is done." Time is an illusion. But I would like to learn more of your perspective.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

Good answer but I would say the most terrible torture would be not duality but simply living. If it was a good world with good rulers, and filled with people who are aware. Things would be much different.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 10:30 PM
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It is impossible to transcend nature; however we may try to do so with countless words and phrases, it always will persist on, with or without anything thinking about it occuring or not.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

There is no good or evil.

Get rid of that silly human concept and you'll do better.

Or, instead of telling someone to go look at a shrew or a mouse or an animal, get out of the basement and go into the forest. Naked. For a week.

Then you might have a better concept of reality. Or what an animal thinks. I've a clue for you.. it isn't Nietzsche.




posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 10:44 PM
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originally posted by: Astrocyte
This will be very brief.


Ha, good one.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 11:19 PM
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good and evil are the figment of a human mind .
a wolf kills another wolf the other wolfs dont go and think he is evil of good they dont think at all they respond .
Only a human assines values to a act .One humans kills another human is evil one human gives another food is good .
the reality if neither human is good or evil both just responded to the moment in time it was only later that good or evil were assined to the act .
Being human we can also instill this into our young a baby knows no good or evil they just respond to what makes them feal better . Hungry cry gets feed coos and builds on that experience .
left to the babys own devices they grow to respond to the environment in ways that give them the best results to survive in that environment .
To you a gang member is evil to him its a way the gives best chances of surviving in a gang environment .
You want to change that change the environment telling him he is evil will not .
We are no different then wolfs except in that we assine imaginary values after the fact .
As for killers taht suffer remorse that is a learned response at some point in there lift they were told killing is evil and conditioned to believe if they killed they were evil.
This is why real killers have non they lived in ways that they didnt not learn this and teaching after the fact is to late in order to change the environment must be changed .



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

Ultimately the hunt was successful, the dogs had a 'good' day. One Impala had a 'good' day too, it got away. The other had a 'bad' day. None of what follows is evil...

edit on 24-3-2017 by intrptr because: additionall



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 01:17 AM
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I believe it was Alan Watts who said, "Nature does not distinguish between good and evil it only seeks to obtain balance." Good and evil are human projections, imo, conditioned from knowledge unknown to the animal kingdom.

If I were to speculate, some exceptions may include animals of higher intelligence that have developed learned extended sentience from devoted human relations. A dog, primate, elephant or dolphin may be able to perceive or emulate these subtle extensions of good and evil when coupled with general threats or praise, beyond their primitive instinct.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 01:55 AM
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originally posted by: Astrocyte
This will be very brief.

Sometimes, naive minds will find themselves saying "only Humans create good and evil", or something to that effect. Now, a little bit of thought will very easily undo this hyper-unreal point of view, as there is nothing that lives which doesn't form a like/dislike binary, a "good for it", "bad for it" split - that is, there is no creature which doesn't have a basically teleodynamism - a direction to which it's coordinated dynamics move, and the very opposite - anything which obstructs or upsets that essential life-affirming agenda.

All 'good' and all 'evil' exist in the vain, judgmental thoughts/ego of the beholder!
That which lives in harmony with the environment of which it is a feature is not perceiving 'thought/ego'.
We do not do what we do because we have, somehow, determined that it is 'right', we do it because that is the manifestation of who and what we are at that moment!
Natural behavior.
"Zen is anything done thoughtlessly!" - Bodhidharma
That which is perfect and natural is only 'judged' in the dualistic vanity of thoughts/ego. *__-






edit on 24-3-2017 by namelesss because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 02:15 AM
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Ultimately, "good" is what benefits the individual. Within a society that is necessarily modified to various degrees.

Now, if you want to go into the concept of "sin", that's something else all together.

edit on 3/24/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 02:46 AM
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Total intellingential obfuscation that ultimately supports the diatribe its railing against, just by arguing the post modernistic concept of relativity arguing against good and evil, but thereby reinforcing this is all there really is, when there is far more. It isn't that good and evil don't exist. It's that they do, but they are two extreme ends of a spectrum in which there is far more than ting #1 and thing #2....,,

See what you did there, and now what I'm doing now?

It really isn't that simple. But you likely accept Occam's Razor as some non sequitur mistaken for logic, as well.

Enjoying your discussion, nonetheless that I basically and fundamentally disagree, regardless.
Regards,
tetra50



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 02:59 AM
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a reply to: tetra50

Well, if you want to get into Hermeticism...


"Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled." ~ The Kybalion.


To make a long story short? Relative to the observer holding the view as to one or the other. It exists but yet it does not.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 10:46 AM
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edit on 24-3-2017 by Michet because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

You say that animals acknowledge good and evil, but for the life of me I couldn't find any examples or proofs of your assertion within your OP. Just a sermon telling us to believe in good and evil. So I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on the basis of lack of evidence to what you are claiming.
edit on 24-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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Good and evil are point of views, like madness or Einstein view of common sense is set in at age 18.
Animals don't seem to concern themselves with questions of existence or ethics even though they do have different levels of emotions. A fully fed lion can have the mentality of a kitten until it hungry. Shark eyes go lifeless when they smell blood, while Killer Whales, who are intelligent and more technologically advanced then Dolphins, play with their food. Herbivores in Africa are more likely to kill someone then Carnivores all while eating vegan .

Then there are oxymorons, like "why does everything that feels so good, feels wrong"and vice versa.

Duality a funny thing so as long as your not the monkey in the middle.




edit on 24-3-2017 by Specimen because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-3-2017 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 03:39 PM
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a reply to: GreyScale

There is symbiotic behavior and parasitic behavior. Good and evil are badly defined. The golden rule is not. The higher the awareness and IQ the higher ability to see how an action manifest thru the whole.


edit on 24-3-2017 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



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