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huygens was only alive for 30 minutes???

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posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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i read (in time magazine) today that the huygens rover (or probe???) was only "on-line" on the surface of titan for 30 minutes (and this was the projected time too!!!)...

it was in the atmosphere (on the parachute) for 147 minutes taking pictures but only on the surface for 30 minutes...

i did not know this interesting fact...

did you???

was this seen as a positive or negative???

why was huygens not "alive" longer???

did it use the sun for power or a battery???

lets discuss these things and more here...






posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 07:43 PM
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It was alive a heck of a lot longer than expected, especially in the atmosphere. It was powered by a battery, I can't remember what sort offhand. I'm sure someone else does.

It was only supposed to be in the atmosphere for about half the time it was, and it was only expected to be alive on the ground from 2 to 30 minutes. So we definitely got a lot more life out of it than was expected. So I'd say the life of its battery is a BIG positive. The fact that it didn't land in some sort of a liquid is an even bigger positive though.


As for it not being alive longer, it's friggen cold on Titan and they probably put in the biggest battery they could. It didn't use the Sun as a power source because of Titan's dense atmosphere. It barely allows any Sunlight to reach the surface, if much of any at all. You have to keep in mind that at the distances of basically the asteroid belt and beyond, the Sun isn't giving off much energy. That's why all of the probes to the Outer Solar System utilitize some sort of nuclear power or batteries.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
It was alive a heck of a lot longer than expected, especially in the atmosphere. It was powered by a battery, I can't remember what sort offhand. I'm sure someone else does.

It was only supposed to be in the atmosphere for about half the time it was, and it was only expected to be alive on the ground from 2 to 30 minutes. So we definitely got a lot more life out of it than was expected. So I'd say the life of its battery is a BIG positive. The fact that it didn't land in some sort of a liquid is an even bigger positive though.


As for it not being alive longer, it's friggen cold on Titan and they probably put in the biggest battery they could. It didn't use the Sun as a power source because of Titan's dense atmosphere. It barely allows any Sunlight to reach the surface, if much of any at all. You have to keep in mind that at the distances of basically the asteroid belt and beyond, the Sun isn't giving off much energy. That's why all of the probes to the Outer Solar System utilitize some sort of nuclear power or batteries.


what is in a battery???

the little battery in electric toys and etc. can keep the thing running for a LONG time without being turned off...

why not just make a big battery of a toy???

this may sound stupid but i always thought that batteries last long...





posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:07 PM
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Huygens is more than a "toy" though, and does a whole heck of a lot more than a remote control car. There's dozens of instruments to run and operate, a computer, radios, and a lot more advanced equipment.

Plus these batteries are different than your standard alkaline batteries.



From: saturn.jpl.nasa.gov...
During probe checkout activities, the probe obtains power from the orbiter via the umbilical cable. After separation, the orbiter will continue to supply power to the probe support equipment (PSE), but power for the probe itself will be provided by five lithium sulphur-dioxide (LiSO2) batteries. Much of the battery power will be used to power the timer for the 22 days of "coasting" to Titan. The higher current needed for probe mission operations is only required for the descent duration of 2.5 hours. The Electrical Power Subsystem is designed to survive the loss of one of its batteries and still support a complete mission.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Huygens is more than a "toy" though, and does a whole heck of a lot more than a remote control car. There's dozens of instruments to run and operate, a computer, radios, and a lot more advanced equipment.

Plus these batteries are different than your standard alkaline batteries.


i know that


but is the reason the battery does not last long is because it has to "multi-task"???

this was a great mission and all and i also read that it took 19 years to plan...

for me, planning something for 19 years and then having it see the "light of day" for only roughly 177 minutes is not right...

do you see what i am saying???

i hope the satellite lasted longer


thanks for the info...





posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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One of the benefits of using "older" technology is that it's been tested many times over, so it's known what makes it work best and what to do if it fails. That's the main reason newer technology is not always used.

And the amount of knowledge gained from that 177 minutes is unimaginable compared to what we had before about Titan, which was next to nothing. Also, it could have been A LOT less time had something malfunctioned or it laned in a liquid of sorts. So be grateful for that 177 minutes.


As for Cassini (I'm guessing that's what you meant by "the satellite") it's still in orbit around Saturn and will be for quite a few years more.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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I just feel sorry for the science team that developed the wind experiments that were to happen as it floated down to the surface and some idiot forgot to turn them on. They waited and waited and waited for that data to arrive.....and they are still waiting.

Wish i could provide a link for this, I read it somewhere. Sorry.

Love and light,

Wupy



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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i know that

but is the reason the battery does not last long is because it has to "multi-task"???

this was a great mission and all and i also read that it took 19 years to plan...

for me, planning something for 19 years and then having it see the "light of day" for only roughly 177 minutes is not right...

do you see what i am saying???

i hope the satellite lasted longer

thanks for the info...



Cassini (the orbiter) will last alot longer, and is due to visit more things within the Saturnian system.

The data from Huygens, even though it only lasted a few hours, is invaluable, as it allowed scientists the first glimpse of another wprld, and provided enormous amounts of data.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by mrwupy
I just feel sorry for the science team that developed the wind experiments that were to happen as it floated down to the surface and some idiot forgot to turn them on. They waited and waited and waited for that data to arrive.....and they are still waiting.

Wish i could provide a link for this, I read it somewhere. Sorry.

Love and light,

Wupy


I was watching target titan on discovery and it said that they didn't forget to turn them on but rather they had two computers on board the one recording the wind however was not relaying properly to the transponder. They did salvage some info however because they had a lot of radio telescopes pinpoint the satellite after they realized the problem and they eavesdropped on the carrier signal the probe was still gathering that info but it wasn't transmitting it from the satellite to earth. the radio telescopes however picked up the signal between the probe and the satelitte and managed to salvage the data anyway.

Quick thinking saved them there. Good thing they are rocket scientists lol.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 09:17 PM
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I look at this another way.

Huygens was one of the Experiment packages that Cassini Carried.
The Experiment was a resounding success. And Cassini will probably continue to Function for years.

About the batteries: they lasted longer than needed. Cassini was out of
range ( actually out of the line of sight of Huygens)
BEFORE that batteries pooped out. So it wouldn't have mattered.

The data channel that was not turned on, carried some Photos, and data that would reveal information about the descent speeds, and atmosphere.
Fortunately, the non-photographic data can be recovered another way.
It can be reconstructed, from a signal that was picked up by Earthbound radio telescopes. I think they are using doppler shift information, how the carrier signal changed frequncies, as the probe slowed down in the atmospere of Titan.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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I read that they didn't expect it to broadcast at ALL once it landed, as they didn't know what sort of surface it would find, hard, soft, liquid.

The fact it want that long was considered a success.

I think it only lasted 30mins because the mother craft went out of range.

[edit on 1-2-2005 by Netchicken]



posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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According to THIS LINK Huygens broadcasted for 2 Hours! I thought I had heard this before, but was unsure. So it definitely outlasted its expectations! The probe itself was powered by five lithium sulphur-dioxide (LiSO2) batteries.

[edit on 2-2-2005 by spike]



posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 09:43 AM
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I was under the impression that it was the conditions on Titan that pprohibited the prob from lasting long. Something about the atmosphere not being conducive to electronics.



posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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In addition to the great points already made here about battery consumption doesn't the extreme cold affect battery life as well? Granted, we are talking about different batteries than your mag lite uses; but I know the subzero temps where I live are battery killers in the winter.


E_T

posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by they see ALL
the little battery in electric toys and etc. can keep the thing running for a LONG time without being turned off...
I don't think you store your toys for half decade in temperature near absolute zero.
Neither they'll have to broadcast data to thousands kilometers away.

Short description of conditions experienced in flight could be like this.
In trip's closest point to sun (distance of Venus) sun heats surfaces very effectively. (and in fact Huygens protected part of Cassini from sun's radiation)
After that it was frozen in ~ absolute zero for half decade.
Descend phase heated its heatshield at rate ~1 megawatt per square meter rising surface temperature of heatshield to 2000 C.
After that it was again put to rapid cooling in ~ -180C freezer. (Titan's denser atmosphere cools things much faster)


Originally posted by Netchicken
I read that they didn't expect it to broadcast at ALL once it landed, as they didn't know what sort of surface it would find, hard, soft, liquid.
It was capable to landing all those surface types, but in mission "specs" required only few minutes operation time on surface.
And it was total operation time/operation time in surface which was much longer than what was estimated.



posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
As for Cassini (I'm guessing that's what you meant by "the satellite") it's still in orbit around Saturn and will be for quite a few years more.


yes, this is what i meant...

thank to EVERYONE and their information!!!

if anyone has anything else to add, just type...

i am glad i started this thread






posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 08:26 PM
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One of the European scientist was quoted by Sky News as saying "We've got a flammable world, it's quite extraordinary!"

What would happen if something caused a spark?



posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by frayed1
What would happen if something caused a spark?


There are plenty of sparks, Titan has an active atmosphere and lightning. There just isn't enough free oxygen to support combustion. Look inside one of those clear disposable butane lighters- a small Titanian ocean.



posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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ESA wont use nuclear reactors in its probes or even the much safer plutonium batteries and when solar is out of the question like on Titan your not going to get a long battery life.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by frayed1
One of the European scientist was quoted by Sky News as saying "We've got a flammable world, it's quite extraordinary!"

What would happen if something caused a spark?


Earth is basically flammable too. Just there happens to be the right amount of Nitrogen to keep the Oxygen from combusting.

Just adding my two cents to Chakotay's answer.



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