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The F-15s days may be numbered-and a lot sooner than you think

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posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:18 AM
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a reply to: Barnalby

It's kind of an interesting conundrum. If they take a few extra years now, and let the systems and integration mature, then the odds are really good that F-XX will avoid the major pitfalls that we have seen with recent programs.

But that means keeping our older platforms around a little while longer, and risking getting into a situation they aren't going to handle well.




posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:33 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Exactly.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 06:02 AM
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www.thedrive.com... after reading this it sounds like it's been planned a while



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

The F16 can turn and burn better than the pilot, eg, 9g turns. So an F16 with an dogfighting autopilot is cheaper than the F15 and a proven airframe and the likely winner against Russian piloted fighters. with that advanced radar, of course. Fire and forget while the thud birds like the F22 and F35 loiter to clean up and take credit.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 11:10 AM
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It could be that LM is giving it's unions the shaft for once instead of getting shafted by them.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

Boeing's has slowly been trying to do that for years.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

Something along those lines. They're planning to shut the line down for 2 years while they move and retrain, then they're looking at a bunch of smaller orders instead of a few big ones.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: Sammamishman

I remember Boeing instigating a labor dispute in 1989. There was a clause in their customer contracts that extended the delivery date by two years in the event of a labor dispute. Once that happened Boeing moved everything in house, cutting the throats of their outside suppliers. It left a lot of people unemployed, including me.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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Looks like Lockheed may have some life left in the line after all. Poland is deciding between 55-100 new Vipers or a batch of F -35s.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 05:54 PM
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The Air Force is pushing back against the claim that they may be retired sm sooner rather than later, but a very good point was raised by the ACC commander. For the F-15 fleet to get much past the 2020s they're going to have to undergo SLEPs, probably two. One of those is going to involve either a new, or almost total rebuild of the center wing area. That's going to cost $40M an aircraft, just for the center wing area.

www.flightglobal.com...

edit on 3/31/2017 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

What's the hometown "we need to keep this line open" discount on some new F-16Vs?



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: Northernhollow

It's not quite as critical now. The Bahrain deal is going to be approved without conditions. It's only 19 aircraft to start, but I think they had options for a bunch too.



posted on Mar, 31 2017 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Checkmate. Now we know why they are talking about getting PCA finished so quickly.
edit on 31-3-2017 by Barnalby because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2017 @ 07:52 AM
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I thought I read in the article that the C/D f-15 were being retired.

But that the E would still fly.

Or did I read that wrong.



posted on Mar, 31 2017 @ 07:58 AM
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a reply to: grey580

The E will keep flying, bit it's a strike aircraft, not an air superiority fighter.



posted on Mar, 31 2017 @ 02:34 PM
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The F-15E would be a great missile truck with some AIM-120D using third party data from say an F-22.



posted on Mar, 31 2017 @ 07:45 PM
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The Air Force confirmed they'll be around through the 2020s. Boeing is fatigue testing an E and C airframe to see what fails first and when. That will give them an idea of the final SLEP cost. Right now, they time out about the mid 2020s.



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 04:33 PM
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And now we're back to possibly sooner rather than later. One of the problems I'd that without a budget they can't plan. So they're having to make multiple plans and see what they get in terms of money.



posted on Apr, 12 2017 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

If you are looking at an average cost just for the centre fuse overhaul of $40m per airframe (some will need more work, some less) plus other upgrades and overhauls then it wouldn't surprise me if the full SLEP is north of $60m per aircraft. At that cost and assuming you actually want to plug the gap then it would make more sense to retire the current fleet now and replace them on a 1 for 2 or 1 for 1.5 basis with the money you WILL spend on the SLEP. Its not like they have a choice to spend or not, PCA isn't going to turn up fast enough to neatly dovetail with retiring the Eagles in the mid 2020's. This at least could give you somewhere between 150-250 fresh airfames.

If you keep a rigid cost/capability frame on the project, dont put in a single thing that is a "nice to have" but not necessary , and cut off anyone's fingers who try's to mess with the plan and cause scope creep then I think its a viable (and necessary) option. In addition give Boeing a single fixed price contract with delivery of around 30-50 new aircraft a year. This gives everyone a known quantity and baseline to work with. It may also assist in keeping the Boeing production line warm enough should they be in the running for PCA without an unnecessary and expensive cold start a few years later.

They will obviously need such items as AESA and the TALON HATE pod or similar for F-22 interoperabillity as well as all the usual standard bells and whistles, but as I said not a single pound or dollar should go into anything gold plated. They need to work with the legacy fleet of upgraded F-16's and the F-22/F-35 combo until PCA or whatever comes after F-35 arrives, NOTHING more. After that you can either pass them all to Reserve or Guard units or sell them with modest downstream updates with plenty of hours still on the clock to whomever you see fit at a reasonable price, thereby recouping some money downstream.

Something needs to be done but I'm not convinced retiring the F-15C/D's and just relying on replacing that capability with upgraded late block Vipers or life extending the Eagles for another decade or so is the best way.



posted on Apr, 13 2017 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: thebozeian

The current idea for the PCA is to start with lower capabilities, and get it flying, and upgrade later. And it will use mostly off the shelf technology, with as little untested tech as they can get away with.




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