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Trump is right. The US should not be militarily involved in Ukraine.

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posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: reldra


Ukraine is our ally. Crimea was taken by force. Of course we should be involved.


Then why wasn't Obama capable of retaliating with nothing better than sanctions?


Republicans fought him over it. Having a ground war is a difficult thing to push. I would have put boots on the ground. That would have been the line to cross with me. Immediately and swiftly, with drones and planes.

Obama was definitely more qualified to decide. He went slower than I would have wanted.


DAMN, you make Dick Cheney look like a dove! Warhawk is too soft a phrase for you. Prepared to start WW3 over a small piece of land thousands of miles away! Let's Get Ready to Rumble, over Crimea!


No. Prepared to help our allies. We don;t help one, the rest become distrustful of our ability.




posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 09:55 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: reldra

Ukraine is not a NATO country. Bulgaria is. Croatia is. Slovakia is. Slovenia is. Czech is. Poland is. Lithuania is. Latvia is. Estonia is. Romania is. Belarus is not. Ukraine is not. Russia is not. It is to America's advantage if Ukraine and Russia fight a war with each other.


Ukraine is our ally. We help them. Period.


The only reason the US was considering the Ukraine as an ally , when they split from the USSR they retained most of Russia's nuclear arsenal .
And no , there is no standing alliance with the Ukraine that has anything to do with their succession from the USSR. Or possible a Russian response
You just keep on with the tripe one-liners



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: reldra

I would imagine after the last 8 years and red lines in the sand, our allies were very distrustful.


And what would you have us do in regards to Russia?
edit on 21-3-2017 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: reldra

Ukraine is not a NATO country. Bulgaria is. Croatia is. Slovakia is. Slovenia is. Czech is. Poland is. Lithuania is. Latvia is. Estonia is. Romania is. Belarus is not. Ukraine is not. Russia is not. It is to America's advantage if Ukraine and Russia fight a war with each other.


Ukraine is our ally. We help them. Period.


The only reason the US was considering the Ukraine as an ally , when they split from the USSR they retained most of Russia's nuclear arsenal .
And no , there is no standing alliance with the Ukraine that has anything to do with their succession from the USSR. Or possible a Russian response
You just keep on with the tripe one-liners


The Budapest Memorandum, 1994.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:01 PM
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So let me get this straight. People are tired of the US playing the world police because many american soldiers lost their lifes fighting stupid wars but the same people want the US to play the world police once again because Russia is literally Hitler. What kind of backwards logic is that. Trump made it clear that he wants Crimea returned to the Ukraine. That's the best diplomatic solution as of now. Since when are people so eager to jump on the war path so damn quick. The cabal in DC did a real number on you guys. This worries me greatly.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: reldra

The Budapest memorandum is not a mutual defense treaty like NATO is. It by no means guarantees military action if Ukraine is invaded.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:02 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: reldra

I would imagine after the last 8 years and red lines in the sand, our allies were very distrustful.


Ans what would you have us do in regards to Russia?


More sanctions. Especially when their ships and planes get too close to ours. We used to give them a TON of aid. It is down to about 465 million, I think, last count.

They lost a lot from us.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:09 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: reldra

I would imagine after the last 8 years and red lines in the sand, our allies were very distrustful.


Ans what would you have us do in regards to Russia?


More sanctions. Especially when their ships and planes get too close to ours. We used to give them a TON of aid. It is down to about 465 million, I think, last count.

They lost a lot from us.


You are seriously advocating a war with Russia as a viable solution? The DNC already tried that in the last hearing with Comey and Rogers. What the hell is wrong with you people... Ah f#ck it nuke the planet. The world is braindead.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:09 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: reldra

Ukraine is not a NATO country. Bulgaria is. Croatia is. Slovakia is. Slovenia is. Czech is. Poland is. Lithuania is. Latvia is. Estonia is. Romania is. Belarus is not. Ukraine is not. Russia is not. It is to America's advantage if Ukraine and Russia fight a war with each other.


Ukraine is our ally. We help them. Period.


The only reason the US was considering the Ukraine as an ally , when they split from the USSR they retained most of Russia's nuclear arsenal .
And no , there is no standing alliance with the Ukraine that has anything to do with their succession from the USSR. Or possible a Russian response
You just keep on with the tripe one-liners


The Budapest Memorandum, 1994.

Have you read and understood ? The limitations ?



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:09 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: reldra

The Budapest memorandum is not a mutual defense treaty like NATO is. It by no means guarantees military action if Ukraine is invaded.


Wiki


The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:11 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: reldra

Ukraine is not a NATO country. Bulgaria is. Croatia is. Slovakia is. Slovenia is. Czech is. Poland is. Lithuania is. Latvia is. Estonia is. Romania is. Belarus is not. Ukraine is not. Russia is not. It is to America's advantage if Ukraine and Russia fight a war with each other.


Ukraine is our ally. We help them. Period.




The only reason the US was considering the Ukraine as an ally , when they split from the USSR they retained most of Russia's nuclear arsenal .
And no , there is no standing alliance with the Ukraine that has anything to do with their succession from the USSR. Or possible a Russian response
You just keep on with the tripe one-liners


The Budapest Memorandum, 1994.

Have you read and understood ? The limitations ?



Following the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation in 2014, the US,[6][7] Canada,[8] the UK,[9] along with other countries,[10] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its obligations to Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum, a Memorandum transmitted to the United Nations under the signature of Sergei Lavrov, amongst others,[11] and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity.


Russia claimed it was a 'revolution' in Ukraine to get around it.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: reldra

I'm still waiting for your reply to my questions:

Who in the GOP prevented Obama from intervening in the Ukraine/Crimea civil uprising?

How is Obama's lack of response to Russia the GOP's fault?



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:13 PM
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a reply to: reldra

The Ukrainian army stationed in Crimea defected to the Russian army. Or else Russia would not have been able to annex Crimea.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:13 PM
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a reply to: Naturallywired

You seem to have missed my point entirely, the problem isn't you calling someone out, the problem is you calling someone who shares a different opinion than you the enemy. What does that accomplish exactly? The only thing it accomplishes is dividing the community here (not that it isn't already divided mind you), nothing more.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them an enemy. Calling someone an enemy removes any chance of compromise and throws out anything that you may have in common in favor of your differences. That kind of attitude is the problem and isn't unique to any one party or ideology.

You're part of the problem, sorry if that offends you. I'm guessing you've labeled me an enemy too, but that's ok because I don't see you as an enemy, only a fellow ATS'er who happens to be on one extreme end of the political spectrum, which seems to be all too common these days unfortunately.
edit on 3/21/2017 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: reldra

What a warhawk response.

We went I Iraq against the vote of the UN. We are past the point of passing judgment on other powers. Was their involvement in Ukraine wrong? I know they got Crimea because their lease would run out for their black sea fleet. But their are alot of ethnic Russians who were feeling the bite of Ukraine's distress. Some truly wanted to be part of Russia again.

Were you speaking on the behalf of Crimea and Ukraine so strongly before our presidential cycle? I don't know, I'm just curious.


Warhawk? Nope. And ethnic Russians didn't want this. The entire place was filled with Putin's surrogates and then taken. More of Putin's surrogates are in the rest of the Ukraine.

Are you volunteering to sign up and go fight WW3? Nope? Then sure your not a war hawk, that would be a insult to warhawks........no your a chickenhawk!



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: allsee4eye
Ukraine is our ally. Crimea was taken by force. Of course we should be involved.

Why not, because Russia, our adversary doesn't like it? Then we might as well drop all help to our allies.

Don't even try to say 'Crimea wanted to go'. It didn't.


And the 7000 nuclear missles pointed at the USA and NATO?

In WW3 there will be no safe spaces for you to hide in!

edit on 21-3-2017 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: reldra

Coming from a country who has troops in a good portion of the world I won't drop judgment. Again your brought our politics into this, more specifically left and right. That has nothing to do with another regions affairs as much as you'd like it to. I'd love to see evidence those in the collapsing Ukraine were against joining a powe at the time (before we crashed the ruble).



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:19 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Naturallywired

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Naturallywired

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: allsee4eye
Ukraine is our ally. Crimea was taken by force. Of course we should be involved.

Why not, because Russia, our adversary doesn't like it? Then we might as well drop all help to our allies.

Don't even try to say 'Crimea wanted to go'. It didn't.
You are the enemy. I get what your whole speil here on ATS is now. Yep I get your bias now.


I, personally, am the enemy? How so?
Cause you have this certain bias and don't know sh*t about what you are talking about just like other posters have already pointed out to you.




I do know what I am talking about.


Clearly not as you dont seem to grasp WW3 basically means the end of the USA and the world



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: reldra

Sounding a little bit like a warmonger Relda.

But it just may come to war. Once a war with Russia starts, and people start picking sides, well we know how they think of America. The war will be in our streets then. So prepare yourself if it comes to that. I am sure the citizens will want more law enforcement then.
edit on 21-3-2017 by 3daysgone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
I honestly don't understand liberals. They always talk about peace, and how the US shouldn't get involved in overseas disputes. But now that Trump is President, he is a Russian agent because he doesn't want to get involved with the Ukraine/Russia dispute. That situation isn't ours to police, we aren't the world's police, at least that's what liberals always used to say.


I figured it out a few years ago.

Given two or more choices, leftists will ALWAYS chose whatever is worst for America and Americans.

It really is as simple as that.

It's the E = mc2 of politics in America.


Oddly, you say that, yet Trump is in the middle of pushing laws and plans that will make the poorest and middle class in a very bad position.



And if you got your way and started a war with Russia everyone will be in more than just a "bad" position.......they will be dead




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