Insulting The Prophet Mohammed, and Others

You guys spend too much time analyzing the poster and not enough simply posting your own counter-views.
If anything, this is where the snark begins. No one wants your personalized psycho-analysis.

I think we can disagree without trying to say "I think you have personal issues", etc.
I mean, who doesn't have personal issues, anyway?

The rant was about religion, not me. So leave me out of it and you won't get any snark. ;-)

That said, my general view of the human race still stands.

My conclusion was similar for a long while. Although I never shared your disdain for the religious and spiritual and superstitious, I did find them frustrating, because of the total lack of reason intrinsic in any such faith. The empirical evidence, when viewed alone in the harsh light of verifiable facts, reveals no meaning to our existence.

Your terminology is apt: We are walking corpses, as you put it. Or as I would always put it, "We are meat and ion channels and evolved behaviors." Our very thoughts are merely the emergent behaviors of electrical impulses and complex evolutionary systems, devoid of meaning. It's debatable whether we even have "free will" in the classical sense. We are born. We will die. The universe will one day grow cold and dark. All life, with near certainty, will cease to exist in the entirety of this universe according to the known laws of physics and barring radical change in our current most rigorous cosmological theories.

All is futile, all is without meaning, all is pointless. As you said yourself in a reply, "all human endeavors" are simplistic and superficial. Your words. Based purely upon reason, observable evidence, and scientific rigor, you are absolutely correct.

However...

This begs a simple question - the same question I was forced to ask myself eventually: You say that society is sick. Why do you care? Why care that society is sick? This implies that there is a "healthy" way for society to be, something worth reforming itself into. Why does that even matter to you? You say you're disappointed in "what human beings have accomplished," but if you are being objective and intellectually honest with yourself, isn't that irrelevant in such a belief paradigm?

And therein lies the rub. What you are asserting is in itself a belief paradigm. That you believe anything - anything at all - is worth expending effort on, much less expressing disdain for "what humanity has accomplished" and a belief that society is sick (implicitly suggesting it can and more importantly should be made "well,") constitutes a form of faith.

Faith is a part of human nature. It is inescapable, short of laying down, and waiting for death to come. Even the staunchest atheist, if they "love" anyone or anything, and feel - even for a fleeting moment - that this means anything at all to them, is engaging in a form of faith. Sure, we can say it's a biological imperative and evolved behavior... but so is existential terror management. Which is what we're ALL unconsciously engaged in every moment of every day, no matter how "above it all" we pretend to be, or more pertinently, convince ourselves we are via cognitive dissonance.

There is no escape from this fundamental reality of human existence, whether you like it or not. (I certainly didn't.)

So, feel free to rant and oppose and condemn ... just don't pretend you aren't engaged continuously in your own delusion as well, no matter how hard you fight against it. It's an existential fact of our very being. As such, I gave in and chose to believe. Because... if nothing matters... what do I have to lose? Some sense of "being right" or "not being gullible" in a game of mirrors that ultimately means nothing? So what? I'm going to die and all is without purpose or meaning anyway, right? Why should I care if I'm deluding myself? More to the point, why should you?

The most you can lay claim to, if you're correct, is, "Well at least I'm closer to the actual truth than you are, and willing to face it." Congratulations. Again, why does that matter? Why does anything?

Many see this, as one poster here once told me, as walking right up to the edge of reality, being terrified by it, and fleeing back into a hole of illusion. But the truth is, we're all in a hole of illusion to one degree or another. There is no escaping it. The subjectivity of limited human perception, thought, and comprehension demands we all suffer from it to one degree or another. No matter how far we evolve or what we learn.

All of this having been said... I respect your opinion and bear you no ill for it. We all have a free choice (if you believe free will exists - as stated, it's debatable,) and I have made mine and have no interest in forcing or persuading anyone else to share it. All I can say is... personally... I'm a lot happier and more fulfilled this way. More at peace than I have been in my 35 years on this planet. Maybe it's all a delusion... but like you claim not to, I don't care.

Do as you will. Just be honest with yourself about it in the process. IMHO.

Peace.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: DeReK DaRkLy

There is no God for starters...
Same with your angels, demons, witches, shamans, bodhisattvas and all that other BS. You don't exist,
Get over your concept of souls, eternal life, eternal punishment and eternity itself.

We are the walking dead. Yet, so many act as if the will live forever.

You make a lot of bold claims. you got some proof of these claims, or you just basing all this on your feelings?

Considering the declaration of god existing is based purely off of religious peoples' feelers and hunches, he doesn't need any proof by default to go against the grain and make a declaration of otherwise. If the OP needs proof to say nawp, then the religious need double it to say yep.

BTW OP, it could have been worded a tad less acidic, but I do completely agree with you

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: DeReK DaRkLy

There is no God for starters...
Same with your angels, demons, witches, shamans, bodhisattvas and all that other BS. You don't exist,
Get over your concept of souls, eternal life, eternal punishment and eternity itself.

We are the walking dead. Yet, so many act as if the will live forever.

You make a lot of bold claims. you got some proof of these claims, or you just basing all this on your feelings?

Considering the declaration of god existing is based purely off of religious peoples' feelers and hunches, he doesn't need any proof by default to go against the grain and make a declaration of otherwise. If the OP needs proof to say nawp, then the religious need double it to say yep.

BTW OP, it could have been worded a tad less acidic, but I do completely agree with you

When you make a positive claim, it requires the proof.
You can not believe in deities...say you dont believe in deities, and say there is no evidence to support, etc...but once you claim something as a positive (in this case, the claim that matter of factly there is no deities), then that requires proof.

where did this information come from that for sure proved no deities?

Thats how it works..people who claim are the ones needing to show the proof.

gnostic atheists are just as intolerable as gnostic theists.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: DeReK DaRkLy

There is no God for starters...
Same with your angels, demons, witches, shamans, bodhisattvas and all that other BS. You don't exist,
Get over your concept of souls, eternal life, eternal punishment and eternity itself.

We are the walking dead. Yet, so many act as if the will live forever.

You make a lot of bold claims. you got some proof of these claims, or you just basing all this on your feelings?

Considering the declaration of god existing is based purely off of religious peoples' feelers and hunches, he doesn't need any proof by default to go against the grain and make a declaration of otherwise. If the OP needs proof to say nawp, then the religious need double it to say yep.

BTW OP, it could have been worded a tad less acidic, but I do completely agree with you

When you make a positive claim, it requires the proof.
You can not believe in deities...say you dont believe in deities, and say there is no evidence to support, etc...but once you claim something as a positive (in this case, the claim that matter of factly there is no deities), then that requires proof.

where did this information come from that for sure proved no deities?

Thats how it works..people who claim are the ones needing to show the proof.

gnostic atheists are just as intolerable as gnostic theists.

Works both ways there, bud. When one makes a positive claim there IS a deity, the onus is on them to prove as much, too.

Why care that society is sick? This implies that there is a "healthy" way for society to be, something worth reforming itself into. Why does that even matter to you?

Because my body still works, and I am currently functional, and I have to put up with all the impending rapes, murders, molestings, shootings, and the other multitude of transgressions that are simply fueled by a failed limbic system. Humans are not destined to evolve into anything, we are simply the "embers of a cosmic fire." Look that up. It's an original quote.

"That you believe anything - anything at all - is worth expending effort on, much less expressing disdain for "what humanity has
accomplished" and a belief that society is sick (implicitly suggesting it can and more importantly should be made "well,") constitutes a
form of faith. "

I disagree with that assessment. As I stated before... I have no faith in existence. Life is transitory, so what is there to have faith in?
An afterlife? LoL.. "Life after Life" is at best redundant, or just an oxymoron. And you can't have an oxymoron without the moron. ;-)

"Faith is a part of human nature. It is inescapable, short of laying down, and waiting for death to come"

I think you just created you own oxymoron there.

" Even the staunchest atheist, if they "love" anyone or anything, and feel - even for a fleeting moment - that this means anything at all to them, is engaging in a form of faith."

Disagree., It's the result of chemicals. Look up Serotonin, Dopamine, and especially Oxytocin.
I'm no Rhodes Scholar, but then again, I'm a Jack-**f of all trades. ;-)

"As such, I gave in and chose to believe"

Fear is a bitch. I'm done with it. And I don't even own a gun. ;-0

"what do I have to lose?"

My philosophy exactly.

""Well at least I'm closer to the actual truth than you are, and willing to face it." Congratulations."

How is that different than ANY other thread on ATS?

"All of this having been said... I respect your opinion and bear you no ill for it."

Ditto.. and that's what people often miss about strong-willed folks.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: DeReK DaRkLy

There is no God for starters...
Same with your angels, demons, witches, shamans, bodhisattvas and all that other BS. You don't exist,
Get over your concept of souls, eternal life, eternal punishment and eternity itself.

We are the walking dead. Yet, so many act as if the will live forever.

You make a lot of bold claims. you got some proof of these claims, or you just basing all this on your feelings?

Considering the declaration of god existing is based purely off of religious peoples' feelers and hunches, he doesn't need any proof by default to go against the grain and make a declaration of otherwise. If the OP needs proof to say nawp, then the religious need double it to say yep.

BTW OP, it could have been worded a tad less acidic, but I do completely agree with you

When you make a positive claim, it requires the proof.
You can not believe in deities...say you dont believe in deities, and say there is no evidence to support, etc...but once you claim something as a positive (in this case, the claim that matter of factly there is no deities), then that requires proof.

where did this information come from that for sure proved no deities?

Thats how it works..people who claim are the ones needing to show the proof.

gnostic atheists are just as intolerable as gnostic theists.

Works both ways there, bud. When one makes a positive claim there IS a deity, the onus is on them to prove as much, too.

Who is saying that? I am not. I dont believe in deities...I dont however say therefore there are matter of factly no deities...I dont know..maybe there is, I haven't seen any heavy evidence that would cause me to believe that though..might also be aliens under the ice of Europa...doubt it, but maybe.

a reply to: DeReK DaRkLy

Fair enough. While we disagree theologically, I appreciate and applaud your mutual decorum and respect despite said disagreement. The world would be less "sick" imo, if we could at least do that much.

Peace.