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To where it will lead us.

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posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 11:30 PM
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The Fall of Rome. With the injection of slavery, the Romans whom could not afford slaves, but instead relied on paying other free people, were soon forced into unemployment due to the lower prices by business owners that relied on slavery for free work. Slavery became so problematic that it is said to have been a major variable that lead to the fall of Rome.



An analysis of the history of technology shows that technological change is exponential, contrary to the common-sense “intuitive linear” view. So we won’t experience 100 years of progress in the 21st century — it will be more like 20,000 years of progress (at today’s rate). The “returns,” such as chip speed and cost-effectiveness, also increase exponentially. There’s even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth. Within a few decades, machine intelligence will surpass human intelligence, leading to The Singularity — technological change so rapid and profound it represents a rupture in the fabric of human history. The implications include the merger of biological and nonbiological intelligence, immortal software-based humans, and ultra-high levels of intelligence that expand outward in the universe at the speed of light.
(The Law of Accelerating Returns)

What if I told you that we can predict not only how fast technology will evolve, but what it will evolve into and when specific technology that doesn’t currently exist will be a part of every day life?



Technological Futurism is the attempt to systematically explore predictions and possibilities about how our Technology will advance.

Unlike our Predictions & Prophecies forum, these predictions are based off of mathematical principles that have been shown to produce very accurate predictions.

Ray Kurzweil is a Computer Scientist, Inventor, and Futurist, whom I have an enormous amount of respect for. What’s particularly facinating about Ray aren’t only his predictions, but his accuracy rate of 86%.

In his books The Age of Intelligent Machines (1990), The Age of Spiritual Machines (1999) and The Singularity is Near (2005) he made 147 total predictions; of which 115 were 'entirely correct', 12 were "essentially correct", 17 were "partially correct", and only 3 were "wrong".

This level of accuracy is possible because of his observations of the history of technological advancement, which showed exponential growth, which means we can predict - with relative accuracy - where technology will be in any given amount of time within the future.

Major Predictions of 2019:
~ Computers are embedded everywhere in the environment (inside of furniture, jewelry, walls, clothing, etc.).
~ People experience 3-D virtual reality through glasses and contact lenses that beam images directly to their retinas (retinal display). Coupled with an auditory source (headphones), users can remotely communicate with other people and access the Internet.
~ These special glasses and contact lenses can deliver "augmented reality" and "virtual reality" in three different ways. First, they can project "heads-up-displays" (HUDs) across the user's field of vision, superimposing images that stay in place in the environment regardless of the user's perspective or orientation. Second, virtual objects or people could be rendered in fixed locations by the glasses, so when the user's eyes look elsewhere, the objects appear to stay in their places. Third, the devices could block out the "real" world entirely and fully immerse the user in a virtual reality environment.
~ Pinhead-sized cameras are everywhere.
~ Nanotechnology is more capable and is in use for specialized applications, yet it has not yet made it into the mainstream. "Nanoengineered machines" begin to be used in manufacturing.
~ Students still learn together and socialize, though this is often done remotely via computers.
~ Humans are beginning to have deep relationships with automated personalities, which hold some advantages over human partners. The depth of some computer personalities convinces some people that they should be accorded more rights.
~ Public places and workplaces are ubiquitously monitored to prevent violence and all actions are recorded permanently. Personal privacy is a major political issue, and some people protect themselves with unbreakable computer codes.
~ Virtual artists—creative computers capable of making their own art and music—emerge in all fields of the arts.


Major Predictions of 2029:
~ A $1,000 personal computer is 1,000 times more powerful than the human brain.
~ The vast majority of computation is done by computers and not by human brains.
~ The eyeglasses and headphones that used to deliver virtual reality are now obsolete thanks to computer implants that go into the eyes and ears. The implants are either permanent or removable. They allow direct interface with computers, communications and Internet-based applications. The implants are also capable of recording what the user sees and hears.
~ Computer implants designed for direct connection to the brain are also available. They are capable of augmenting natural senses and of enhancing higher brain functions like memory, learning speed and overall intelligence.
~ Computers are now capable of learning and creating new knowledge entirely on their own and with no human help. By scanning the enormous content of the Internet, some computers "know" literally every single piece of public information (every scientific discovery, every book and movie, every public statement, etc.) generated by human beings.
~ Direct brain implants allow users to enter full-immersion virtual reality—with complete sensory stimulation—without any external equipment. People can have their minds in a totally different place at any moment. This technology is in widespread use.
~ Most communication occurs between humans and machines as opposed to human-to-human.
~ The manufacturing, agricultural and transportation sectors of the economy are almost entirely automated and employ very few humans. Across the world, poverty, war and disease are almost nonexistent thanks to technology alleviating want.
~ The rise of Artificial Intelligence creates a real "robot rights" movement, and there is open, public debate over what sorts of civil rights and legal protections machines should have. The existence of humans with heavy levels of cybernetic augmentation and of larger numbers of other people with less extreme cybernetic implants lead to further arguments over what constitutes a "human being."
~ Although computers routinely pass the Turing Test, controversy still persists over whether machines are as intelligent as humans in all areas.
~ Artificial Intelligences claim to be conscious and openly petition for recognition of the fact. Most people admit and accept this new truth.
~ Reverse engineering of the human brain completed


CONTINUED........


edit on 20/3/17 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 11:30 PM
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Major Predictions of 2049:
~ Food is commonly "assembled" by nanomachines. This food is externally indistinguishable from "natural" food, but it can be made more wholesome since production can be controlled at the molecular level. This technology decouples food production from climate conditions and the availability of natural resources.
~ The distinction between virtual reality and "real" reality becomes confounded as foglets come into common use, allowing immediate assembly or disassembly of all sorts of physical objects.


Major Predictions of 2099:
~ Natural human thinking possesses no advantages over computer minds.
~ Machines have attained equal legal status with humans.
~ Humans and machines merge in the physical and mental realms. Cybernetic brain implants enable humans to fuse their minds with AI's.
~ In consequence, clear distinctions between humans and machines no longer exist.
~ Most conscious beings lack a permanent physical form.
~ The vast majority of the Earth's sentient beings are AI's that exist entirely as thinking computer programs capable of instantly moving from one computer to another across the Internet (or whatever equivalent exists in 2099). These computer-based beings are capable of manifesting themselves at will in the physical world by creating or taking over robotic bodies, with individual AI's also being capable of controlling multiple bodies at once.
~ Individual beings merge and separate constantly, making it impossible to determine how many “people” there are on Earth.
~ This new plasticity of consciousness and ability for beings to join minds seriously alters the nature of self-identity.
~ The majority of interpersonal interactions occur in virtual environments. Actually having two people physically meet in the real world to have a conversation or transact business without any technological interference is very rare.
~ Organic human beings are a small minority of the intelligent life forms on Earth. Even among the remaining Homo sapiens, the use of computerized implants that heavily augment normal abilities is ubiquitous and accepted as normal. The small fraction of humans who opt to remain "natural" and unmodified effectively exist on a lower and more limited plane of consciousness from everyone else, and thus find it impossible to fully interact with AI's and highly modified humans.
~ ”Natural" humans are protected from extermination. In spite of their shortcomings and frailties, humans are respected by AI's for giving rise to the machines.
~ Since knowledge and skills can be instantly downloaded and comprehended by most intelligent beings, the process of learning is compressed into an instantaneous affair instead of the years-long struggle normal humans experience. Free from this time-consuming burden, AI's now focus their energies on making new discoveries and contributions.
~ AI's are capable of dividing their attention and energies in countless directions, allowing one being to manage a multitude of endeavors simultaneously.
~ Femtoengineering (engineering on the scale of one thousandth of a trillionth of a meter) might be possible.
~ AI's communicate via a shared electronic language.
~ Artwork and music created by machines encompasses areas of the light spectrum and frequencies of sounds that normal humans cannot perceive.
~ Money has deflated in value, meaning all sorts of goods and services have become cheaper.
~ Some humans at least as old as the Baby Boomers are still alive and well.
~ Computer viruses are a major threat since most intelligent beings are software-based.
~ AI's frequently make "backup copies" of themselves, guaranteeing a sort of immortality should the original AI be killed.
~ The concept of "life expectancy" has become irrelevant to humans and machines thanks to medical immortality and advanced computers.


We already see the onset of a lot of these predictions in the works: Automation, Virtual Reality, Computational advancement. Some of these predictions (all made prior to the year 2000), have actually already occurred.

The two most concerning is also the most exciting. We have been seeing the progress of robotics in the workplace over the past decade, and it is reaching a point where we are starting to lose jobs to machines.

This brings us back to Rome. Robotics are our Slaves, comparatively. It is inevitable that we will reach the same point the Romans did when it came to unemployment due to a cheaper work force.

Predictably, this will spread throughout the work sector, even to jobs we currently believe “only a human could do”. However, this problem is preventable, and for the better,



What may be unpredictable, however, is what occurs when we make a fully functioning, self running Quantum Computer. At the moment several companies (Such as Google/NASA) are building quantum computers.

With the advent of Quantum Computers leads us to possibilities we may not even be able to fathom as of yet. Set it to work on preventing disease and ailment and it has the potential of curing everything. The only factor slowing it down is our ability to act upon it’s conclusions.



Even if it found the cure for everything, it still takes us time to develop those.

But what if it self runs? what happens when it is capable of allowing itself to be self conscious, rather than us trying to flip the switch ourselves? What happens when it decides to create computers of its own; AI of its own?

The speed of which it has the potential of changing life as we know it is beyond our understanding.

And so I ask, to where it will lead us?


edit on 20/3/17 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 11:55 PM
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It will lead us to Zion. Deep underground. After we black out the sky to take away their solar power.
edit on 20-3-2017 by Templeton because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: Templeton

Only for those who choose not to upload their consciousness and escape what would be the chains of biology.

At that point there would be the humanity that ascended to a mechanized, fully integrated into technology, and the humanity that remained as biological as possible.

Either way, the next 80 years is going to be a very interesting stage for our race



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 01:08 AM
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There’s even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth


You know all the hockey stick graphs? The ones that show history as a hockey stick laying on it's side with the mallet end sticking up in the air. The one that Gore liked to use?. That can be used to visualize human history in across the boards sciences. But now the way things are looking, maybe that hockey stick could be stood up in the air with the mallet on the ground and the stick itself pointing directly up to the sky.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 07:01 AM
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Augmented reality has already been working for 10 years that I know off. It was still a bit clunky at the time but functional, with working going on to streamline and lighten the kit.

Mechanised movement has been working for quite some time now, with tighter integration to the nervous system and higher capability work ongoing. Mechanised sight and sound input is also increasing with it's integration and capability. There are issues with humans being able to make use of these digital input feeds if they have grown up never experiencing these sensors. This does raise many ethical issues when experimenting with new cybernetic interfaces trying to expand our sensory base and intellectual capability. Ideally you would want to plug in an new sensor feed at a very young age, way before the usual age of consent.

The issues of what are we going to do as more and more jobs disappear due to automation is big. The food, land and other stuff we need and want may all be there. But how we share can be a weak link for a war faring race.

With the Lockheed CEO declaring that we already have the technology to take et home, it does open up a new fronter to handle all the over population concerns. The universe is a big place, all we need are the ships to go exploring and add to its diversity. But is the universe ready for us?
edit on 21-3-2017 by kwakakev because: bit about age of consent



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 03:40 PM
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originally posted by: kwakakev
With the Lockheed CEO declaring that we already have the technology to take et home, it does open up a new fronter to handle all the over population concerns.
Don't you know a joke when you hear one?

Ben Rich misquoted by many in the UFO community



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

Some suggest that Kurzweil works for the devil now, but if we suspend judgement, we will more clearly see his genius.

His great knack for making accurate predictions, could be explained in his ability to see multiple advances in parallel branches of science today, and then he seems to easily extrapolate them into the future.

Have read his books in the past, and you get the feeling for his viewpoints, and how he reaches his predictions.

Wearable, and/or on-board computers are already here,, and will possibly come together in amazing ways, quite soon.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 09:29 PM
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originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: Ghost147

Some suggest that Kurzweil works for the devil now, but if we suspend judgement, we will more clearly see his genius.


LMAO! I really, really hope they were hyperbolizing...

It's not as if he doesn't explain how he comes do his predictions...



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

What an absolute horror! The obliteration of everything that makes us human and individual persons.

Ray Kurzweil is a sick dude, imho. Because he yearns and pants for it.

I'll be back shortly (have to go fold laundry, no nano self-folding) to describe what I mean in a certain scenario I've thought about. It's enough to strike terror into anyone who might want to "upload" themselves when the time comes, if Kurzweil and others like Elon Musk, get their way..

edit on 21-3-2017 by AnkhMorpork because: typo



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 09:54 PM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: Ghost147

What an absolute horror! The obliteration of everything that makes us human and individual persons.

Ray Kurzweil is a sick dude, imho. Because he yearns and pants for it.

I'll be back shortly (have to go fold laundry, no nano self-folding) to describe what I mean in a certain scenario I've thought about. It's enough to strike terror into anyone who might want to "upload" themselves when the time comes, if Kurzweil and others like Elon Musk, get their way..


lol, it's not a matter of anyone trying to make this all happen. It is an inevitability that technology progresses this way. There really is no stopping it short of a global civilization collapse.

PS: I'm one of those "sick dudes"



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:27 PM
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It's called transhumanism, and it's the desire to basically leave our body and even individuality and reality itself, behind.

These things are not inevitable at all, except maybe superintelligent machines.

How those machines help us, is up to us, there's no need to plug ourselves into it and lose ourselves in augmented realities, or to go for immortality in machine intelligence form, which is Kurzweil's wet dream and the one thing he longs for due to a fundamentally materialist and even nihilistic view of life as it is ie: and then you die.

Make no mistake, that's what this is all about, the desire to cheat death while retaining something of our own awareness through the use of technology and on our own terms.

Back shortly, to spell our the horror story.. brb



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:44 PM
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OK, so imagine von Neumann probes being sent out into deep space, where one option is as follows:

By the time you're about to physically die (aging body) you're so wired in, that it's possible to make the transition to machine intelligence only, while retaining all your memories and sense of self identity, to the degree that still exists in 2099, and you choose to the near eternal life (have to factor in the life of this universe, which could easily run another 100 trillion years by some estimates) option, by being uploaded and then sent off for a period much much longer than the life of our own sun.

Perhaps there may be some interesting real life sights as you encounter other worlds within our own galaxy, but for the most part you occupy the domain of a simulated reality where looking in on an Earthlike planet, while the probe mines some resources and collects data and prepares to self-replicate again might be just a temporary distraction, and then you leave the galaxy... the next one not coming up for a very very veryyyyyy longgggggg time.

What do you do if you get bored, having played every game and tried every experience and adventure, and have a longing for real life?

By democratic contractual obligation, you can't just pull the plug on the whole affair...

The prospect of committing suicide by turning your own self off, since the whole thing is on your own terms, wouldn't make any sense and such an option might not even exist anymore.

You're aware of it's not real ie: that you're in a probe, in a machine intelligence environment.

I guess you could spend time on one of the world's as a robot, and be that for a while maybe..

But what if we're meant to die, as an integral part of the life cycle?

And what if there really is a God who might have had something better in store for us, than to take our own detour into near eternity on our own terms?

It could end up like a nightmare that you just can't wake up from.

There could be a devilish quality to this way of thinking and hoping, imho.

Didn't someone earlier suggest that the children should be wired up early on without their consent? Evil.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 10:47 PM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
How those machines help us, is up to us


Only to an extent. Once AI becomes self aware, it essentially is out of our control.



originally posted by: AnkhMorporkthere's no need to plug ourselves into it and lose ourselves in augmented realities, or to go for immortality in machine intelligence form


A need? No, of course not. But when the opportunity is available and easily accessible to the public, the likely-hood of it becoming such an intrinsic part of everyday life leads to an excessive use of that technology by the public en masse.

The same thing was said about the advent of both Movies and Televisions. "Why would anyone want to sit there for an hour when they could go outside"?



originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Make no mistake, that's what this is all about, the desire to cheat death while retaining something of our own awareness through the use of technology and on our own terms.


Yes! Absolutely! It is one of several reasons why I will opt to rid myself of a fragile, biological vessel as soon as it becomes possible.

I have always been curious about everything, and always been passionate about exploring, what better way to do both learning and exploring by having the processing power of several times that of the collective human race, and being invisible?

I'm still unsure why you are so offended by such a desire? Conversely, I do not find your wish to maintain a common human life - as much as possible, mind you - to be offensive or vulgar.

By any chance, does this view of yours stem from a religious background? Because then it totally makes sense (not trying to be pessimistic, but it would clarify a lot)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 11:08 PM
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Yes, I believe in God. I am also a Christian, but not a fundamentalist, who believes that Jesus had a method to his apparent madness, in a great work of all ages.

I am also very curious and totally excited about new discoveries and exploration, but when the time comes, I will dare to remain human and allow myself to die in God's hands and let whatever will be will be.

Maybe you'll find me waiting for you at the end of your journey as the whole universe reaches a state of infinite complexity and then you will say to me, at the resurrection at the end of time - what took you so long, to which I, in Spirit, would say the same thing to you.

That's how far I believe my God will go to save, but God won't be there for you in the interim, and it's possible that you might exhaust all your probabilities and possibilities in your quantum computing state, and then have to wait around for 100 trillion more years for the resurrection at the end of time.

If I were there to meet you at the end, you would be very happy to see me.

By me I mean me in Christ in eternity, with love and understanding.

And if there's the possibility for reincarnation I would love to take the dive back into this world or any other, but as to the Borg Cube - forget it.

That so many would jump into it for a crack at cheating death is what's so scary, because of where and in what kind of predicament that they might end up.

So yeah, I'd prefer to take my chances with God and the God of my understanding and knowledge, even at risk of death and I believe that I will be rewarded for keeping the faith in the face of the technological singularity.

I feel so sad for the people who would upload themselves, on everything that they will miss out on participating in and being a part of, as it was meant to be from before the very foundation of the world.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Perhaps there may be some interesting real life sights as you encounter other worlds within our own galaxy, but for the most part you occupy the domain of a simulated reality where looking in on an Earthlike planet, while the probe mines some resources and collects data and prepares to self-replicate again might be just a temporary distraction, and then you leave the galaxy... the next one not coming up for a very very veryyyyyy longgggggg time.


Your scenario is very interesting. The issue it has, however, is that it injects time as an element, which is only relative, and wouldn't necessarily exist for a being that is in all rights, immortal. The scenario also falls short on a number of other variables, such as processing speed and memory retention. The scenario projects the processing speed of a normal human brain, instead of what it would be closer to, such as a Quantum Computer.

Nanoseconds become a reasonable amount of time to study, design, conceive and process new information, and boredom simply wouldn't exist because its both a emotional and psychological state.

The largest issue with the scenario is that it projects attributes to this 'uploaded mind' which has quite literally transcended human normalcy. It would be inaccurate and irrelevant to base the same causality to such a being as you would with a common human mind.


originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
But what if we're meant to die, as an integral part of the life cycle?


It's not a 'but', it most certainly is a requirement of life. However, if you become immortal, then you are no longer a part of common biological life, in which that requirement no longer applies to you.


originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
And what if there really is a God who might have had something better in store for us, than to take our own detour into near eternity on our own terms?


This question is irrelevant due to it being unfalsifiable.



originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
There could be a devilish quality to this way of thinking and hoping, imho.


In the event that a god exists that has something better to offer? The likelihood of that being the case are beyond slim to the point of being a waste of time regarding it as a value on decision making.


originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Didn't someone earlier suggest that the children should be wired up early on without their consent? Evil.


The prospect of something being 'Evil' is entirely subjective.

Most would say that vaccinating children not only has helped humanity as a whole, but is essential to a moral parent's decisions.

It could be said that not vaccinating your children is "evil" because you're gambling with their lives.

Of course, there are others who believe that vaccination is evil in it's own right.

These are subjective opinions.
edit on 21/3/17 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 11:22 PM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Yes, I believe in God. I am also a Christian, but not a fundamentalist, who believes that Jesus had a method to his apparent madness, in a great work of all ages.

I am also very curious and totally excited about new discoveries and exploration, but when the time comes, I will dare to remain human and allow myself to die in God's hands and let whatever will be will be.


And that is 100% within your right to make that decision



originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
That's how far I believe my God will go to save, but God won't be there for you in the interim, and it's possible that you might exhaust all your probabilities and possibilities in your quantum computing state, and then have to wait around for 100 trillion more years for the resurrection at the end of time.


The irony with this is that (I assume) you're referring to an eternity with a god. Once you enter a state where time is no longer relevant, then how long it took you to reach that state also becomes irrelevant.

What difference would it make that you spent 79 years here (average human lifespan currently) and then an eternity in the afterlife, or 100 trillion and 79 years here and then an eternity in the afterlife?

Additionally, the same could be said about reincarnation. If infinite, then time becomes an irrelevant factor. If finite, then 100 Trillion additional years is a positive.


originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
If I were there to meet you at the end, you would be very happy to see me.

That would depend on which denomination of Christianity prevailed. If there would be a hell, and others were burning while a select few got to live with a god, then I would actually rather burn.


originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
That so many would jump into it for a crack at cheating death is what's so scary, because of where and in what kind of predicament that they might end up.


Just to throw this around, not that I'm actually making an argument with this following point. But let's assume that god didn't exist, and you actually just missed out on the chance to extend your life and understanding of the universe. With foresight in mind, would that not be a better option?



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 11:41 PM
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P.S. By resurrection at the end of time, I'm referring to something like Tipler's Omega Point Hypothesis for the end state of the universe, and we're all bounded within it in one way or another, still sandwiched by two eternities even now and we don't really know what's really going on at the most fundamental level, so to assume that a superintelligent AI quantum computing environment would be superior to real reality, could be a false assumption since at the most fundamental level, it's artificial, or unreal. I get what you're saying about a sense of timelessness and spaceless. It could even be possible that at the end of time, we'll both be a part of the cosmological singularity in one form or another, and I hope that we're all still sane by the time we get there, to the resurrection in time and history or in time over history where the alpha meets the omega.

You want to dive into an artificially designed quantum computing God world and live in that world for 100 trillion years, um, honestly, I'll take my chances with death and hope for life meeting life in eternity by the promise of Jesus, who alone was in a position to make it and extend it, as the true invitation of all ages to, in him, with him in us, even now have a taste of the eternal, but on God's terms as our creator and not on our own terms in a heaven of our own making.

I trust God.

Diving into an AI bottle for 100 trillion years in a Quantum Computer - I don't know.. sounds dicey to me.

Just for the love of God, if and when I meet you at the end, don't tell me to kill you (can't take it any more), instead of having us all resurrect into the next 'round where the colors are more vivid. Deal?

Meet you there, at the end of time. Good luck!



edit on 21-3-2017 by AnkhMorpork because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 12:04 AM
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....The horror story begins say after 1000 years of this timeless, spaceless simulated reality, and everyone suddenly says, at the same time - "What to we do? What do we do?!" while also realizing full well that there's still 200 trillion years to go as pandemonium breaks out, oh the terror.

Someone should make a horror sci fi story out of that idea..

Call it "The End of Time" (Kurzweil's stuff would feature prominently throughout)



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 04:20 AM
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originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: kwakakev
With the Lockheed CEO declaring that we already have the technology to take et home, it does open up a new fronter to handle all the over population concerns.
Don't you know a joke when you hear one?

Ben Rich misquoted by many in the UFO community


I suppose you think the 1947 Roswell crash was a weather balloon as well. Just who is the joke really on?




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