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The President Lied To The American People Again. When Will Enough Be Enough?

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posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Xtrozero
He owns the tweets, I agree... My point is I do not think he made it all up on the fly as a big lie. He received information from somewhere that triggered the tweets...

No, he also owns the conclusions that he came to that did not exist in the sources.


Sure he does. But it is wholly unreasonable to expect people to always be right.


It is perfectly reasonable to expect the President of the United States not to repeatedly and knowingly LIE. I would even argue that expectation is a duty of everyone that elected him.

"expect people to always be right"...Lord...This is not an "accuracy" discussion...He does not CARE for "right" or "wrong"...does not CARE about "truth" or "lies"...he only cares about his narrative and agenda..

And as this forum proves...he has like minded supporters..


Quite a few accusations with no substance you espoused there. One could say quite similar to Trump's tweet. Are you taking his lead?


Reality well proves my assertions..Both public record of trump's statements as well as this thread where now multiple false claims have been made in defense of Trump's lies.




posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So what you are saying is Trump is guilty of being a gullible fool and not source checking?


what do you mean not source checking? Who, exactly, does he believe? If he knew who to believe he'd be the only person who did.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Xtrozero
He owns the tweets, I agree... My point is I do not think he made it all up on the fly as a big lie. He received information from somewhere that triggered the tweets...

No, he also owns the conclusions that he came to that did not exist in the sources.


Sure he does. But it is wholly unreasonable to expect people to always be right.


It is perfectly reasonable to expect the President of the United States not to repeatedly and knowingly LIE. I would even argue that expectation is a duty of everyone that elected him.

"expect people to always be right"...Lord...This is not an "accuracy" discussion...He does not CARE for "right" or "wrong"...does not CARE about "truth" or "lies"...he only cares about his narrative and agenda..

And as this forum proves...he has like minded supporters..


Quite a few accusations with no substance you espoused there. One could say quite similar to Trump's tweet. Are you taking his lead?


Reality well proves my assertions..Both public record of trump's statements as well as this thread where now multiple false claims have been made in defense of Trump's lies.


I think that you calling them lies is hyperbole. So there you have it. Not everyone agrees.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well WeAreAwake just said that Trump didn't know that his source was lying, thus I said that Trump was being gullible and foolish by not source checking the source he got his wiretap claim from before tweeting out about it.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So what you are saying is Trump is guilty of being a gullible fool and not source checking?


what do you mean not source checking? Who, exactly, does he believe? If he knew who to believe he'd be the only person who did.



Ahh...yes..The earth is flat because Fox News lied once.

No doubt Trump would like to convince the world there are no facts, no truth...it's all for sale...Certainly worked with you...but you will forgive the sane majority of Americans who recognize truth and lies..



edit on 21-3-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You keep going back to that lame excuse but there is the NYT article and an interview on fox that expands on the tweet.

He didn't own anything. They didn't own him either. I can't say why people have the need to see things in either of those two positions.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 02:06 PM
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I actually think President Trump has been remarkably honest thus far.

As far as Obamagate, the President told Fox's Jesse Watters on Saturday (18th) that "things will come out" over the next couple weeks to substantiate his claim of wiretapping. That gives him until the end of the month.

If he hasn't delivered something significant by then, I will re-evaluate my position. But for now, I'll give it a little time.

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that Flynn was wiretapped at Trump Tower is sufficient evidence for me to back up Trump's claim. Comey said yesterday that only 20 or so people in the world would have known about that. Surely Barack Obama would have been one of them.

There has always been a lot of smoke around this charge. Was there a FISA warrant? Did the FBI wiretap a Trump Tower server? Who leaked the Flynn transcript that only 20 or so people would have had access to? Did British intel' have anything to do with any of it...?

And there is the long history of Obama spying on his adversaries. This is not in dispute. There are multiple lists one can find with a simple search, but to me, the use of the IRS to spy on and harass conservative groups, the comprehensive surveillance on reporter Jim Rosen and his family, and the numerous cases of spying on AP reporters are enough.

Obama did have an established pattern of spying on US citizens.

Does that mean he spied on Trump?

Maybe. He certainly would have had the means and the motive.

If this turns out to be Trump getting ahead of himself in the end, I'll admit that. But I will take him at his word until then and wait until the end of the month to make any final judgment.

If it was an error or over-reach or misinterpretation, that won't matter much to me. All presidents say dumb things from time to time. Obama certainly wasn't immune to that. I support President Trump's policies and am not that interested in his personality tics.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: Indigo5

"expect people to always be right"...Lord...This is not an "accuracy" discussion...He does not CARE for "right" or "wrong"...does not CARE about "truth" or "lies"...he only cares about his narrative and agenda..


This is your own personal opinion only and because of that Trump could be extremely successful as a President and you would still hold this view of him.

The funny part is Trump was voted into office mainly because of his style of hard speech and anti NWO views. Now that he is President I don't expect much change at first in his approach. Nothing that he has done so far has been shocking or out of alignment of what he was before election. If people think he would change over night they are mistaken and not honest when Obama got a 4 year pass on his inability to speak off the teleprompter or even say his own words very well.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

It means that the nyt is off the hook because they never said that he was under surveillance.

It would also mean that the assertion that it was a win-win move by trump is incorrect.
edit on 21-3-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh, I'm sure you're right. Something I've thought a lot about is HOW he is allowed to have a Twitter account and there is no oversight as to what he can say on it... even after the dozens (hundreds?) of questionable tweets he has made already.

...Other than the premise that he is "part of the plan" or the real string-pullers are just giving him enough rope to hang himself.


this type of thought process cracks me up. why in the world do u think its ok for the powers that be to have that sort of control over a sitting president? everyone wants free speech but that liberty shouldnt be afforded to our president?



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You keep going back to that lame excuse but there is the NYT article and an interview on fox that expands on the tweet.

He didn't own anything. They didn't own him either. I can't say why people have the need to see things in either of those two positions.


I can't understand why you would feel the desire to dismiss my opinion as a "need to feel".

I have a pretty long history on ATS. I would hope that to an "old hat" such as yourself i've proven that I am an open minded free thinker. I've loudly and firmly carved out my spot here in the middle where I can laugh heartily at the 2 parties and their followers. I don't have a need to feel this way. I have a brain that has taken in the information available and has formulated an opinion based on what I see and how I believe things to be.

What you call "lying" is not what I call "lying". Its become painfully obvious to me, after ABC was caught trying to expunge a mistake, that I cannot trust what is contained on MSM servers anymore. And I KNOW i saw the word "wiretap" more than once leading up to the election. I know because I used it in discussions with my mom, trying to convince her Trump was a twit. It could have been any outlet, as I read voraciously.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So what you are saying is Trump is guilty of being a gullible fool and not source checking?


what do you mean not source checking? Who, exactly, does he believe? If he knew who to believe he'd be the only person who did.



Ahh...yes..The earth is flat because Fox News lied once.

No doubt Trump would like to convince the world there are no facts, no truth...it's all for sale...Certainly worked with you...but you will forgive the sane majority of Americans who recognize truth and lies..





I will also forgive you for trying to insult me for having a different opinion than you.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
I can't understand why you would feel the desire to dismiss my opinion as a "need to feel".

I have a pretty long history on ATS. I would hope that to an "old hat" such as yourself i've proven that I am an open minded free thinker. I've loudly and firmly carved out my spot here in the middle where I can laugh heartily at the 2 parties and their followers. I don't have a need to feel this way. I have a brain that has taken in the information available and has formulated an opinion based on what I see and how I believe things to be.

Because it has already been pointed out that it wasn't a bad ass move by Trump and that the NYT is actually off the hook because they never said he was under surveillance. I have pointed that out a few times here and something seems to be blocking that old school ATS open mind.


What you call "lying" is not what I call "lying". Its become painfully obvious to me, after ABC was caught trying to expunge a mistake, that I cannot trust what is contained on MSM servers anymore. And I KNOW i saw the word "wiretap" more than once leading up to the election. I know because I used it in discussions with my mom, trying to convince her Trump was a twit. It could have been any outlet, as I read voraciously.

I never said anything about lying I said that he jumped to a conclusion based on the title of an article when the article itself said that they did not know if he was under surveillance.

It wasn't so much a lie as a mistake.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So what you are saying is Trump is guilty of being a gullible fool and not source checking?


Or guilty of shining a light on liberal fake news.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

A mistake might even be an understatement. He's in the tank against media, and willing to do whatever it takes to attack them.

I just don't think a man known to be a scheister and bloviator should be taken word for word as if he were an attorney that chose his words carefully.

Nonetheless, as best what I saw yesterday was everyone shrug their shoulders and say "No comment". At worst, i've already shared my thoughts.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

It's clear that cognitive dissonance plays a significant role in whether or not people will admit to themselves that Trump is a liar.

I actually managed to have a substantive discussion with a Trump supporter without name-calling and insults being thrown out at me. In attempting to understand his point of view on why he cannot see that Trump is a liar it became clear to me that he was so emotionally attached to the Trump campaign and its rhetoric that by facing and accepting that Trump lies is to him the same as accepting that he (the person I was speaking to) had made a monumental mistake and had been duped. Too many people in America - mostly males - refuse to admit failure, refuse to admit they've made a mistake, and refuse to face reality because it's too frightening and too much of a bruise to their ego.

Trump supporters were convinced that they were representing the national majority (which is far from the truth - Trump was elected by only 27% of the electorate), and that the "Trump Train" was running down the opposition in one fell swoop (also untrue because in six states Clinton lost by less than 90,000 votes, and in five states the number who didn't even vote exceeded the number who did). The election campaign was a football game - a sport; an emotional rollercoaster. "OUR TEAM IS THE BEST! THE OTHERS SUCK AND ARE NO GOOD! LET'S KICK THEIR ASS!" When their "team" won the election there was jubilation in their ranks, but as the weeks went by and Trump's mental and emotional instability became apparent to everyone, including Trump supporters, there was this collective shock. Selecting the superwealthy for his cabinet was the start of it. Instead of clearing the swamp, he was making it bigger.

The way Trump supporters began to handle the increasingly bleak situation is by thinking "Maybe the media is lying. Maybe things will get better. Let's give him a chance." Two months have now gone by and things have only gotten worse. Even hardcore conservatives are jumping ship because they see that the majority of the nation are against Trump, and they are also getting the news straight from the source that the Trump team are falling apart and the plans and policies that his team are trying to push through will actually cost people their lives. Now we're even hearing of the possibility of nuking North Korea even though the idea of getting involved in more wars was condemned by Trump on the campaign trail.

Maybe I'm naive, but I believe our nation will survive this. Our democracy will survive, and so will our Republic. But the government is going to fall, and it will crash hard. It may be that this is necessary in order to clean out the partisans and restore a sense of loyalty to COUNTRY and not loyalty to PARTY. You are your brother's keeper. Do good unto all men. Love your neighbor as yourself. ALL Americans want what is best for the country, regardless of whether they support libertarian, liberal, conservative, green, or any other ideology. We must quickly get away from this mindset of "X's are the only ones who are 100% right, and X's are always 100% wrong all the time". Everyone has something meaningful to offer, and we need to re-learn the art of compromise.

This isn't a football game. We cannot play sport with things that could actually end up killing a lot of people. The rest of the world is looking at America right now with a sense of horror, shock, and confusion. We'd better clean up our act, and quick. That includes you. That includes me.
edit on 21-3-2017 by dovdov because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Dfairlite

Ok. Well she still didn't have access to the government offices that would allow her access to the information that was leaked in January. Current clearance or otherwise. These are still baseless accusations.


Why would you assume she couldn't access the buildings?

Why would you assume she did?


I don't assume she did access them. She CAN access them though.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Are you not able to see that you are merely repeating a party line? The news isn't fake. The mainstream media may not be as good as they once were, but they are still essential for the existence of a free society. The party line "fake news" blather has gotten so out of hand that even independent media sources are being called "fake news". People need to open their eyes to see that they are being duped. Some news is fake, but most of it is completely legitimate.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Indigo5


If Trump lied, who did he lie to? Reporters?


YOU...He lies to YOU and me and every other member of the public.

Massive lies, ugly lies, hateful lies, bragging lies...any lie that he fancies...to YOU.

Reporters are there to ask the questions for the American people..They do it on camera...you can make your own opinion about the answers..

And when Trump cowardly avoids reporters or shouts them down for fear of being fact-checked...He turns to TWITTER...to "Speak directly to the people" as he puts it...Where he can not be questioned or be inconvenienced with looking someone in the eye..and in that New Holy Trump medium...He continues to LIE..to YOU and me.

"MSM" has become a vague, non-specific, right wing curse...spat at anyone who challenges the outright PATHALOGICAL LIAR in the WH. It is embarrassingly dishonest in it's intentional lack of specificity....
AND it is non-specific because everyone knows Breibart, Fox and other right wing outlets are the cause of "mainstream" news media losing credibility.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So what you are saying is Trump is guilty of being a gullible fool and not source checking?


I will say this...Trump was foolish to believe ANY media source because while they are supposed to report facts, truths and check these to assure they are reporting the truth...some have ended this practice and report lies.



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