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No punishment for man who raped girl, 12(BBC Article title)

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posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 04:26 PM
link   
www.bbc.co.uk...



A man who admitted raping a 12-year-old girl has walked free from court. Daniel Cieslak, 21, had believed the girl - who he met in a taxi queue in Edinburgh in July 2015 - was 16. He burst into tears when police later revealed her true age. The judge, Lady Scott, said she was taking the "wholly exceptional decision" not to sentence Cieslak. Instead, she gave the first offender an absolute discharge at the High Court in Glasgow. She said: "I do not consider there is any need for, or public interest in, punishment. To do so would in my view be disproportionate given the nature of the criminal culpability here." Student Cieslak, who was 19 at the time of the offence, had earlier pleaded guilty to the rape charge.


As i started to read this i was already feeling the rage within start to build as it usually does when i see this kind of thing, i thought ok she lied about her age that doesn't mean it was OK to rape her but after reading the full article i think the right decision may have been made.

Please, please read the full article before you crucify me on this, some more snippets below.




The victim said she was 16 and her friend was 17. The taxi driver later said he thought the girl was 20. Cieslak then invited them to a party at his friend's house, where he had sex with the 12-year-old. The court heard she left the next morning, and there had been no suggestion of her being distressed. The offence came to light days later after the girl told her sister she was "extremely worried" she could be pregnant.


The girl lied about her age, with witness stating they thought she was older, to be honest though 20 sounds a bit far fetched but we will never get to see how old this girl could have appeared to be at the time.




This is a highly unusual case, and the judge has pointed out a number of "exceptional circumstances" in it, as she sought to explain why she passed the most lenient sentence allowed in law. At its heart is the fact that the girl in question looked over 16 - even the judge accepts that, having viewed CCTV footage. Police officers looking at night for under-age children in the streets of Edinburgh had no concerns about her age. Also, the girl engaged in sex willingly.


The Judge agreed about the girl looking much older than her true age after reviewing CCTV footage, also police officers looking for under age children out late at night had no concerns about her age, they also seem to believe the girl had sex with him willingly.




So why was Daniel Cieslak prosecuted? Rape laws, which were strengthened in 2009, do not allow any child under the age of 13 to give informed consent about sexual intercourse. So if it happens, in the eyes of the law, it is rape; there is no defence of consent. Under the strict definition of the Act, prosecutors were bound to charge Mr Cieslak who, in any case, admitted the offence. But the judge has exercised her sentencing powers to impose no punishment on him.


The rape charge was brought as it was a part of Law due to the girls age regarding consent.

I do know one thing though it would be smart of this guy to leave Scotland asap, those guys don't f*ck about and to be fair if this was my daughter/niece etc.... i would defiantly be looking around for this guy for some punishment time consent or not, very hypocritical of me i know but we're all just animals at heart are we not

edit on 17-3-2017 by nickovthenorth because: to add link because i'm a numpty




posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 04:32 PM
link   
a reply to: nickovthenorth




I do know one thing though it would be smart of this guy to leave Scotland asap, those guys don't f*ck about and to be fair if this was my daughter/niece etc.... i would defiantly be looking around for this guy for some punishment time consent or not, very hypocritical of me i know but we're all just animals at heart are we not


No! Most of us are not animals at heart. We are human beings. Most of us respect law and order and do not act on or condone lynch mob impulses. Is Scotland somehow more violent than everywhere else? I think that is rather slurring, personally. If I was Scottish I would be very unhappy at what you just wrote. You are making out that Scottish people are animals, don't believe in law and order and take the law into their own hands as a matter of course.


edit on 17-3-2017 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: nickovthenorth

I started to get a little bent out of shape at first also.

Then I read how the girl lied to him. So really you cant really blame the guy for stat-rape...Unless she looked like a little kid.
But then again the cabbie said she looked 20.
He assumed she was age of consent.
I guess he could have checked her ID at the bed post in hindsight.
Asides from it being a little odd for a 19 year old to be interested in a 16 year old, I dont think he would have pursued the girl knowing her true age.



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: Revolution9




Is Scotland somehow more violent than everywhere else? I think that is rather slurring


I don't know is it? i didn't say it was more violent than anywhere else did i?
my insinuation was that if he left Scotland he'd be less likely to have vigilantly justice served same as if this occurred in England and he did Visa Versa.




If I was Scottish I would be very unhappy at what you just wrote


If you were Scottish maybe you would, but seeing as you are admittedly not should it really bother you or is this leading into me being some sort of ist.

I said what i said based on emotion of this being theoretically a family member of mine not thinking rationally, is this a bad trait maybe but don't fret its kept well in check and will only be brought out for special occasions.



No! Most of us are not animals at heart. We are human beings.


This bit was just a bit of fun, or that's how it was intended you know a little light at the end of a crappy tunnel obviously it failed though.
edit on 17-3-2017 by nickovthenorth because: noticed an error



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: nickovthenorth

The decision was fair. It was definitely not a case of rape. Due to the man's (I would say almost boy at 19) being lied to about her age, the intent for statutory rape didn't even exist.

I am not sure about Scotland, but in such cases here, where there is consent, charges are not normally brought unless by the younger person's parents.

When I was 14 I dated someone 23. I at first told him I was 16 or 17. My mother didn't like it at all, and mainly because she thought he was a stupid person in general. My mother later states she feels it a bad idea to give ultimatums in such cases as it often ends in rash behavior by the couple. Like elopement.

He was the best friend of my mother's roommate's boyfriend. My mother had a female border much younger than herself and I found myself becoming friends with the border, it sort of all naturally fell into place- as the 4 of us would go out on weekends.

The relationship was only attempted to be 'consumated' 4 or 5 months in, but was unsuccessful as I was uncomfortable and he definitely was not interested in having me doing something I was uncomfortable with.

The judge using the words 'exceptional circumstances' was right. However, in case he has an actual problem, I would have required classes or something.



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 05:21 PM
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As a Scottish man myself i've got to say (it's all about the area you live in) most of us don't walk around looking for trouble (at all) but in my experience you're better off walking away cause we do what we have to do, just my 30 years on that and very messed up situations for me.

Think it's the same in every Town/City around the world?

Edit..I don't think this dude realised her age (bad judgment on his part) and definitely on hers for not saying her age,, reminds me of Trainspotting. if you get what i mean?.
edit on 17-3-2017 by DarkvsLight29 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 05:27 PM
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I think it sets a dangerous precedent for future cases though. As a previous poster said even the fact that a 19 year old was interested in what he thought was a 16 year old doesn't sit quite right, as she shouldn't have been partying or out on the streets in the early hours of the morning at that age. At the age of 12 she was legally unable to give proper informed consent so cannot be held responsible for her actions - even the judge accepts this as is written in the article, as the proper cut off is 13. Just because she lied and looked older does that make it ok?



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: MRM13
I think it sets a dangerous precedent for future cases though. As a previous poster said even the fact that a 19 year old was interested in what he thought was a 16 year old doesn't sit quite right, as she shouldn't have been partying or out on the streets in the early hours of the morning at that age. At the age of 12 she was legally unable to give proper informed consent so cannot be held responsible for her actions - even the judge accepts this as is written in the article, as the proper cut off is 13. Just because she lied and looked older does that make it ok?


I completely agree with you, in the UK consent for sex can only be given at the age of 16 plus willing to have sex etc, that still doesn't make it right if you're over 20 (weird age) for sex with anyone 16 years old, plus agree that it could have future implications at court cases..It's almost like everyone should ask for ID or you might be considered a predator etc.
edit on 17-3-2017 by DarkvsLight29 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 05:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: DarkvsLight29
As a Scottish man myself i've got to say (it's all about the area you live in) most of us don't walk around looking for trouble (at all) but in my experience you're better off walking away cause we do what we have to do, just my 30 years on that and very messed up situations for me.

Think it's the same in every Town/City around the world?

Edit..I don't think this dude realised her age (bad judgment on his part) and definitely on hers for not saying her age,, reminds me of Trainspotting. if you get what i mean?.


I agree 100% there are rough/dangerous parts in most towns and cities especially these days, i certainly did not mean to imply Scotland was worse than anywhere else, as suggested.

Seeing as you are actually a Scotsman i will apologize if you are offended by my comments it was not my intent.

I will state though(even though as a proud Englishman it pains me to do so) there is reason why the Scottish make up a good chunk of our special forces, and it ain't for their tea making capabilities


Edit... Forgot to
the Trainspotting reference.
edit on 17-3-2017 by nickovthenorth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 05:54 PM
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You have to ask why a 12 year old girl was allowed out all night..? I have seen these situations before, Parents probably pished and not giving a toss as to the whereabouts of their daughter.

Was the guy duped, I highly doubt it, but then again he's foreign and maybe doesn't understand how much #e a 12 year old Scots girl talks. You can usually tell the age of someone just by listening to what they have to say..Blah Blah Blah..Justin Bieber.. Blah blah blah..Donny Osmond...Jail bait mate...leave it.
edit on 17-3-2017 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 06:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
www.bbc.co.uk...



A man who admitted raping a 12-year-old girl has walked free from court. Daniel Cieslak, 21, had believed the girl - who he met in a taxi queue in Edinburgh in July 2015 - was 16. He burst into tears when police later revealed her true age. The judge, Lady Scott, said she was taking the "wholly exceptional decision" not to sentence Cieslak. Instead, she gave the first offender an absolute discharge at the High Court in Glasgow. She said: "I do not consider there is any need for, or public interest in, punishment. To do so would in my view be disproportionate given the nature of the criminal culpability here." Student Cieslak, who was 19 at the time of the offence, had earlier pleaded guilty to the rape charge.


As i started to read this i was already feeling the rage within start to build as it usually does when i see this kind of thing, i thought ok she lied about her age that doesn't mean it was OK to rape her but after reading the full article i think the right decision may have been made.

Please, please read the full article before you crucify me on this, some more snippets below.




The victim said she was 16 and her friend was 17. The taxi driver later said he thought the girl was 20. Cieslak then invited them to a party at his friend's house, where he had sex with the 12-year-old. The court heard she left the next morning, and there had been no suggestion of her being distressed. The offence came to light days later after the girl told her sister she was "extremely worried" she could be pregnant.


The girl lied about her age, with witness stating they thought she was older, to be honest though 20 sounds a bit far fetched but we will never get to see how old this girl could have appeared to be at the time.




This is a highly unusual case, and the judge has pointed out a number of "exceptional circumstances" in it, as she sought to explain why she passed the most lenient sentence allowed in law. At its heart is the fact that the girl in question looked over 16 - even the judge accepts that, having viewed CCTV footage. Police officers looking at night for under-age children in the streets of Edinburgh had no concerns about her age. Also, the girl engaged in sex willingly.


The Judge agreed about the girl looking much older than her true age after reviewing CCTV footage, also police officers looking for under age children out late at night had no concerns about her age, they also seem to believe the girl had sex with him willingly.




So why was Daniel Cieslak prosecuted? Rape laws, which were strengthened in 2009, do not allow any child under the age of 13 to give informed consent about sexual intercourse. So if it happens, in the eyes of the law, it is rape; there is no defence of consent. Under the strict definition of the Act, prosecutors were bound to charge Mr Cieslak who, in any case, admitted the offence. But the judge has exercised her sentencing powers to impose no punishment on him.


The rape charge was brought as it was a part of Law due to the girls age regarding consent.

I do know one thing though it would be smart of this guy to leave Scotland asap, those guys don't f*ck about and to be fair if this was my daughter/niece etc.... i would defiantly be looking around for this guy for some punishment time consent or not, very hypocritical of me i know but we're all just animals at heart are we not


Flame on then....

As a woman.
I can categorically state.
Without a doubt.

Girls, do in fact lie.

Some much worse than this.

Where were her guardians when this "rape" took place?



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 06:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: nickovthenorth

originally posted by: DarkvsLight29
As a Scottish man myself i've got to say (it's all about the area you live in) most of us don't walk around looking for trouble (at all) but in my experience you're better off walking away cause we do what we have to do, just my 30 years on that and very messed up situations for me.

Think it's the same in every Town/City around the world?

Edit..I don't think this dude realised her age (bad judgment on his part) and definitely on hers for not saying her age,, reminds me of Trainspotting. if you get what i mean?.


I agree 100% there are rough/dangerous parts in most towns and cities especially these days, i certainly did not mean to imply Scotland was worse than anywhere else, as suggested.

Seeing as you are actually a Scotsman i will apologize if you are offended by my comments it was not my intent.

I will state though(even though as a proud Englishman it pains me to do so) there is reason why the Scottish make up a good chunk of our special forces, and it ain't for their tea making capabilities


Edit... Forgot to
the Trainspotting reference.


No need to apologize dude i wasn't offended one bit, and glad you're a proud Englishman (now a days it's all we have) you know us Scotsman and Englishman have a history together (mostly fighting past wars with each other, but now its football lol)..Glad you got the Trainspotting reference :-)

P's lol on the tea making reference

edit on 17-3-2017 by DarkvsLight29 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 06:21 PM
link   


Flame on then.... As a woman. I can categorically state. Without a doubt. Girls, do in fact lie. Some much worse than this. Where were her guardians when this "rape" took place?


I have a 13 year old Son and there is no way on earth he would be allowed out until any where remotely close to 4am.

I think all Kids this age lie to some degree though others just plain flat out lie and deceive like pro's about all kinds of things, of course kids lie about sleepovers and things as well so this can't be ruled but out its also quite possible this was a common occurrence and the Parents/Guardians don't give crap.



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 06:31 PM
link   
a reply to: DarkvsLight29




No need to apologize dude i wasn't offended one bit, and glad you're a proud Englishman (now a days it's all we have) you know us Scotsman and Englishman have a history together (mostly fighting past wars with each other, but now its football lol)..Glad you got the Trainspotting reference :-) P's lol on the tea making reference


Glad i didn't offend, i have always thought the four Home Nations as a sort of dysfunctional family we fight and bicker and kick and spit between each other, but let an outside force try and come at us and they would have no idea what would be waiting for them because then we band together that outside force gona find they effed up


we've done it before and we would do it again if and when needed.



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 07:11 PM
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I read this and have to agree with tbe judge.

The man waa deceived.


Not only that but he was extremely remorseful.


I dont think there was any actual criminal intent here, just a horrible accident.



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 08:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: nickovthenorth
a reply to: DarkvsLight29




No need to apologize dude i wasn't offended one bit, and glad you're a proud Englishman (now a days it's all we have) you know us Scotsman and Englishman have a history together (mostly fighting past wars with each other, but now its football lol)..Glad you got the Trainspotting reference :-) P's lol on the tea making reference


Glad i didn't offend, i have always thought the four Home Nations as a sort of dysfunctional family we fight and bicker and kick and spit between each other, but let an outside force try and come at us and they would have no idea what would be waiting for them because then we band together that outside force gona find they effed up


we've done it before and we would do it again if and when needed.


Lol that's what i like to hear dude plus it's Fkn true come at us with everything you've got and we'll band together and fight every last one of them.


Sorry ATS mods i'm not condoning fighting just talking.
edit on 17-3-2017 by DarkvsLight29 because: (no reason given)



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