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The Invisible House of Life

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posted on Mar, 16 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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In a follow up to the considerations on the Book of Thoth it is worth considering the scribal institution that the initiates of such belonged to, namely The House of Life, a mysterious place that was suggested as invisible to the uninitiated, a precursor of The Invisible College, according to Late Period papyrus Salt 825.


There are four mansions of life at Abydos, (each) is built four stories high and is internally covered with palm wood. There are four mansions of life, Osiris is master thereof.

The four houses are Isis, Nephthys, Seb and Nu. Isis is placed in one, Nephthys in another, Horus in one, Tahuti in another, at the four angles: Seb is above, Nu is below,

The four outer walls are of stone. It has two stories, its foundation is sand, its exterior is jasper, one is placed to the South, another to the North, another to the West, another to the East.

It is very hidden, unknown, invisible, nothing save the solar disk sees it. It escapes men that go there. The Sun's librarians, the Treasure Scribes are within.



This tradition of the hidden is seen again with regards to The House of Life in another Late Period text, yet it is generally known that there were such institutions in various cities attested through all periods of Egyptian history, the article i linked to makes the case that these should be considered libraries and scriptoriums, which in the general sense no doubt they were, but there is also the more mysterious tradition that the works contained therein were sacred books referred to as Souls (bA.w) of Re, of which there were generally seven.


It shall be very, very hidden. No one shall know it, no one see it. Apart from the solar disk that gazes on its secret. The officiating priests ... shall enter silently, their bodies veiled, So that they shall be protected against sudden death. The Asiatic may not enter, he may not see anything.


A House of Books seems to have been closely related to the House of Life, but this could perhaps more properly be understood as learnings sourced from within the House of Life, a more mysterious school of learning.


'your heka (words of power) are effective around the House of Books; your provisions come into existence from the House of Life'


It seems to have been the case that the invisible and idealized House of Life at Abydos provided the basis for such institutions found within other Cities, including Edfu were the Book of Thoth was likely compiled;


Hieroglyphic inscriptions in the chamber identified as the House of Books of the Ptolemaic Period Edfu temple include one reference to Osiris as lord of Abydos and 'he who initiated the House of Life in the work of its lord'

'As for the books which are in it, they are the baw of Re, keeping alive this god (scil. Osiris), and overthrow his enemies." As for the people who enter into it, 'they are the staff of Re and the scribes of the House of Life, the followers of Re protecting his son Osiris every day.'


Thoth was closely related to the House of Books and Life as custodian, but there is also a deeper relationship suggested were Thoth assimilates with script itself and knowledge;


'of Thoth who is in the House of Life; I have not left unseen any of them all, in order to search out both great and small among the gods and goddesses, and I have found ... the entire Group of Gods, and all your forms are more mysterious than theirs'

'excellent of understanding like Thoth, he has entered the inscriptions like the creator of them, he has seen the writings of the House of Life'


Also as seen in The Book of Thoth the Goddess Seshat was closely related to the House of Life;


in the Ptolemaic Period Edfu temple, the goddess Seshat is called 'lady of plans, lady of writings, foremost of the House of Life'; in the Hypostyle Hall at Karnak the same goddess is said to be 'amid the House of Life'


What then was involved with this seemingly other worldly basis for an invisible House of Life which was the domain of Deities, this is complex and the basis of the subject matter of the Book of Thoth, in some sense it could be understood to be an interface between aspects of being, it's in line with Late Period understanding contained in works such as The Book of Traversing Eternity


Others, such as Jan Assmann, have argued that the book describes the deceased as joining with the religious community of the living. Erik Hornungs' opinion on the matter, is that, in the Book of Traversing Eternity: the realm of the dead was brought into this life, and this other-worldly Egypt became the 'temple of the world'


There was also the Late Period tradition of learning the secrets of the House of Life through the inscriptions of it's scribes;


Setne goes to the 'cemetery hill of Koptos with the priests of Isis and the high-priest of Isis; they spent three days and three nights searching in all the tombs that were on the cemetery hill of Koptos, turning over the stelae of the scribes of the House of Life, and reading the writings that were upon them'

Setne Kaemwas


The tradition is always closely related to the generation of scripts through the House of Life for passing through the Underworld, that what is sought is the basis for the generation and continuation of life.

A deeper basis for created order set four square is also known regarding the activities of the twenty Shebtiw foundation Deities related to Edfu


This text seems to imply a belief in the existence of a group of nameless [shmw] deities who existed before the origin of the world, and who were believed to act as a single creating power…these powers are described as the Primaeval Ones…the lords of the light…The Ghosts, the Ancestors…These nameless Creators of the Earth seem to have been regarded as its original inhabitants

Then appeared on the scene a large company of divine beings…the whole company was then divided into four groups; each group was placed along one side of the bw-titi…Thereafter the snake was overthrown and the victorious gods are said to have settled beside him…The divine powers who were believed to have acted in this phase of creation were the deities who took part in the former process The Place-for-crushing resembled a ifdw [four sides] of the divine shelter (nwt) within that domain

The Island of the Egg


This again is related to Osiris, the defeat of the chaos serpent and the establishment of Osiris within that new order, which in cosmological terms related to the Field constellation Pegasus, and were the Gods associated with this are those of the natural elements.


'this is a secret book in the House of Life, not to be seen by any eye, the secret book of the Overthrow of Aapep'


edit on Kpm33174vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1631 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 16 2017 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt
Might I propose the idea that "the hidden" or "invisibility" is something that is coveted in religions because it creates a sort of plausible deniability as to verifiable proof?

God is invisible--no one (save for Moses, apparently) has ever gazed upon its face.

Heaven is invisible, only seen after death.

Hell is invisible, only seen after death (for the apparently unrighteous).

Angels are invisible unless they reveal themselves on purpose.

The human soul is invisible.

There are many more examples, but I would argue that the theme of invisibility (or very well hidden things) is just a way to make proving elements of religion unnecessary or a way to avoid it altogether. I mean, you can't ask WHY a religious object/idea is not visible to average human beings--that's questioning God, and we can't have that, right?

My two invisible cents, anyhoo.



posted on Mar, 16 2017 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
In a follow up to the considerations on the Book of Thoth it is worth considering the scribal institution that the initiates of such belonged to,


Scribes were not initiated.


namely The House of Life, a mysterious place that was suggested as invisible to the uninitiated, a precursor of The Invisible College, according to Late Period papyrus Salt 825.


They've found a number of these houses, as is noted in the webpage from Reshafim.


There are four mansions of life at Abydos, (each) is built four stories high and is internally covered with palm wood. There are four mansions of life, Osiris is master thereof.
(etc)

It is very hidden, unknown, invisible, nothing save the solar disk sees it. It escapes men that go there. The Sun's librarians, the Treasure Scribes are within.


The part just above that explains that the Houses of Life (Per Ankh) were the places where the sacred books were kept. Every temple had one, and it was in the area where the lector priests (who read and recited things) were allowed.


...but there is also the more mysterious tradition that the works contained therein were sacred books referred to as Souls (bA.w) of Re, of which there were generally seven.


Are you perhaps confusing the parts of the human soul with Amun-Re? They did not have seven standard texts in the Per Ankh. Further down on the page was this quote, which you may have missed...



The House of Life contained secret, magical writings which they had composed or copied and which were said to have the power to renew and sustain life and further the rebirth of Osiris at his annual festival. The significance of the House of Life and the rituals performed there was universal. Like the temples it stood for the whole creation, just as the reborn Osiris symbolized eternal life in general.


This should not be confused with the House of books (Aka the House of the Papyrus Scroll) which functioned more as a library of of the regular scrolls. Your Digital Egypt link contains in the first line a statement by chief physician Wedjahorresnet about how he reestablished the Houses of Life in many temples and (in his translated words) "... I founded them with all their men of books, I provided them with all their personnel.. I placed them in the charge of every learned man, so that they [might teach?] all their work. His Majesty commanded that they be given all good things so that they might carry out all their work. I supplied them with all their powers, with all their requirements which are in writing as they were previously. His Majesty did this because he knows all the power of this art to cause anyone sick to live, to establish the names of all gods in their temples and in their offerings and the conduct of their festivals forever.'


Thoth was closely related to the House of Books and Life as custodian, but there is also a deeper relationship suggested were Thoth assimilates with script itself and knowledge;


It is Khnum and Seshat who have the title "Foremost in the House of Life" , not Thoth. (see item #3 on your DigitalEgypt link- also see your Reshafim link again.)


What then was involved with this seemingly other worldly basis for an invisible House of Life

There is no invisible House of Life.

You may not be aware of it, but the temple was not open to everyone. Anyone could enter the temple grounds and stand even in the forecourt. However, only priests were allowed inside the buildings... and not all priests were allowed inside all the buildings. The very innermost buildings where the sacred shrines and naos were kept could only be entered by the high priests or the pharaoh.



posted on Mar, 16 2017 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Of course scribes were initiated into mysteries that's obvious or they had no right to be involved, there are instances were the House of Books is differentiated from the House of Life, and the distinction is important.

When it comes to the seven souls of Amun-Re that is clear reference to an idealized abstraction rather than the actual number of books in a given institution, that is also the case in the Abydos ideogram, i agree that in general practical terms the House of Life was simply enclosed behind high walls beyond public viewing, but there was also the idealized basis for that which involved entrance into the realm of the invisible and Divine.

Thoth was certainly understood as operative within the House of Life, not necessarily foremost, the prominence of Khnum is interesting though as that will generally relate to the manipulation of form.


a reply to: SlapMonkey

Perhaps, but the concern here would be with things that might well be invisible but were perceptible and could be engaged with, it wasn't so much a question of faith but more a way of going about things.
edit on Kpm33174vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1631 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

edit on Kpm33174vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1631 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2017 @ 10:40 PM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

Of course scribes were initiated into mysteries

They were not. We have records of scribal training, including "The Satire of the Trades."


When it comes to the seven souls of Amun-Re that is clear reference to an idealized abstraction rather than the actual number of books in a given institution,

I did not see a source for "seven souls of Re" other than your claim. Do you have a link to this?


that is also the case in the Abydos ideogram, i agree that in general practical terms the House of Life was simply enclosed behind high walls beyond public viewing, but there was also the idealized basis for that which involved entrance into the realm of the invisible and Divine.


You have not provided any source that indicates this is part of Egyptian thought. While it might be Greek, it frankly sounds more Christian.


Thoth was certainly understood as operative within the House of Life, not necessarily foremost, the prominence of Khnum is interesting though as that will generally relate to the manipulation of form.

Khnum does not have anything to do with manipulation of form.

The Mansion (House) of life was neither invisible or mysterious and was not initiatory. According to Gardiner, it was the domain of Mafdet (protectoress) and seems to indicate the royal mansion. Titles such as held by Seshemnefer are similar to titles of officials for temples; there is no indication of any initiation or mysteries ... and certainly do not indicate that they were invisible because the ones involved were not making voice offerings on behalf of the mansion.

Gardiner has more information (JSTOR access needed, alas.)



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 05:39 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

A satire is perhaps not the best guide and the scribes of the House of Life were a distinct group, but you're right about this all sort of sounding a little Christian, with regards to the House of Life sounding suspiciously like the New Jerusalem and that's why i would insist there's the element of the mysterious.

The Temple set four square the proportions of which are carefully measured and the occupants therein carefully counted also found in such works as the Qumran Temple Scroll, but the basis for that is found even in the configuration of the tribal encampment in the Wilderness and the flight from Egypt, it was always an aspect of Hebrew tradition and closely related to their scribal practise, which suggests to me that it was derived from Egypt and that from around the time of the 18th Dynasty.

It's also the case that the Egyptian tradition itself could begin to sound a little Mesopotamian, that it is based in their Field constellation and Osiris to the Egyptians is representative of the Tree of Life planted within it, it's also the case that their seven heads of Amun Re would relate to the tradition of the seven sages and their establishment of scribal practise in Mesopotamian tradition.


In Egypt's declining years Amen-Re is addressed as Hidden ba, who is revered, at the same time Bes Pantheos, a seven-headed daemon was a manifestation of the power of Amen-Re:

Bes with seven heads: he embodies the ba's of Amen-Re


Souls of Amun-Re


On many magical gems and other monuments an Egyptian god appears , whose head is decorated with many animal heads or even with vegetal elements. This god has been known in Egyptian iconography since the first millenium BC. His name varies. In modern literature he is labeled as Pantheos, Bes Pantheos, or a polymorphic god. Sometimes he is depicted with seven or nine heads. The speculations of theologists of the Imperial Age connected this god to the Orphic traditions, as is proved by the inscription on a gem from Byblos. He was considered a creator god, after whom all the living beings in the world were shaped


Bes Pantheos

That dates back at least to the Persian period and therefore is somewhat Babylonian, the Persians are recorded as restoring the House of Life the concept likely introduced then, which shouldn't be confused with the Mansion of Life by the way as you have, the Royal residence.

A potter God such as Khnum that had nothing to do with manipulation of form would be a very poor potter God.
edit on Kam33175vAmerica/ChicagoFriday1731 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2017 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

A satire is perhaps not the best guide

I suggest that you read it. It's fairly short.


and the scribes of the House of Life were a distinct group,

Titles don't indicate this. The ones in charge of the House of Life would be the more elite of the lector priests and high priests. In addition, the scribal titles simply list positions and not hierarchical or mystery religion type of titles.


but you're right about this all sort of sounding a little Christian, with regards to the House of Life sounding suspiciously like the New Jerusalem and that's why i would insist there's the element of the mysterious.

Doesn't sound like New Jerusalem - which is a city with the Jewish Temple in it (described by my Biblical sources ).


The Temple set four square the proportions of which are carefully measured and the occupants therein carefully counted also found in such works as the Qumran Temple Scroll, but the basis for that is found even in the configuration of the tribal encampment in the Wilderness and the flight from Egypt, it was always an aspect of Hebrew tradition and closely related to their scribal practise, which suggests to me that it was derived from Egypt and that from around the time of the 18th Dynasty.

It's nothing like an Egyptian temple


It's also the case that the Egyptian tradition itself could begin to sound a little Mesopotamian, that it is based in their Field constellation

Which culture has a "field constellation?" It's not part of the Egyptian sky charts.


and Osiris to the Egyptians is representative of the Tree of Life

How could he be the Tree of Life when he's the ruler of the dead?


seven heads of Amun Re

I have never ever seen any indication of this. What's your source?


would relate to the tradition of the seven sages and their establishment of scribal practise in Mesopotamian tradition.

If you mean the Seven Mesopotamian sages, that tradition is much younger than Egyptian scribes, House of Life, etc, etc, etc.


In Egypt's declining years Amen-Re is addressed as Hidden ba, who is revered, at the same time Bes Pantheos, a seven-headed daemon was a manifestation of the power of Amen-Re:

Bes with seven heads: he embodies the ba's of Amen-Re


Bes Pantheos was a deity that arises in Ptolemaic times (300 BC and later and is a real mish-mash of themes (one example here). Bes himself is a fairly old deity and does not appear with seven heads at any time in Egyptian history.


On many magical gems and other monuments an Egyptian god appears , whose head is decorated with many animal heads or even with vegetal elements. This god has been known in Egyptian iconography since the first millenium BC. His name varies. In modern literature he is labeled as Pantheos, Bes Pantheos, or a polymorphic god. Sometimes he is depicted with seven or nine heads. The speculations of theologists of the Imperial Age connected this god to the Orphic traditions, as is proved by the inscription on a gem from BAyblos. He was considered a creator god, after whom all the living beings in the world were shaped


Again, he's an old deity. Changed over time. The Ptolemys changed a lot of deities.


That dates back at least to the Persian period and therefore is somewhat Babylonian, the Persians are recorded as restoring the House of Life the concept likely introduced then

The stele itself says that the house was restored and installed with scribes and given the financial support needed. There are no changes in titles or in deities in the temples that suggest mysteries or an initiation of scribes or other gnostic concepts.



A potter God such as Khnum that had nothing to do with manipulation of form would be a very poor potter God.

Niether Ptah nor Khnum changed the forms of things. They were creators, as were other creator deities associated with pottery. The mutaters/changers are the trickster gods.



posted on Mar, 18 2017 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

I have read it and you're failing to understand the difference between scribes in The House of Life and other general scribal professions and roles, they generated Egyptian religion through the production of original texts, as well as compiling and copying previous, in order to generate new religious expression involved practise beyond normative scribal activity.

The Seven Mesopotamian sages tradition pre-dates the Egyptian were the original were Ante-Diluvian and non-human;


the genealogical relationship to antediluvian sages extended to all scholars as a class Focusing on the ummânù, the implication of the text is rather clear: the human, post-diluvian scholars are the direct professional descendants of the earlier semi-divine apkallu


Uruk list of Kings and Sages

The tradition of the House of Life established at Abydos is only one branch of a greater tradition, and for example the scribal Goddess Seshat is very limited in expression compared to her Sumerian counterpart Nisaba, were the tradition has far more depth and rationale.

The idealized House of Life of Abydos is very much like the idealized Temple of the Qumran scroll, with regards to the inner court, and related to that Field constellation such as seen at Dendera on the ceiling zodiac;





Qumran was the last gasp really of Hebrew scribal tradition, a twig that grew from the Egyptian branch, they could have explained to you the significance of Osiris, who was only ever concerned with the living;


The statement in the Qumran fragment that “the gardeners were water-ing” ( gnnyn hww’ mšqyn ) may be an allusion to the initial educational mission of the Watchers. There is also a reference to “great shoots” springing up from the roots of the trees in the fragment , which indicate the birth of the Giants.

From the comparative perspective, both the educational mission of the Watchers and likening them to “gardeners” make perfect sense.

On Neo-Assyrian palace reliefs and seals, the famous apkallus as fish-cloaked men or as eagle-headed winged creatures are very often associated with the Tree of Life.


Ante-Diluvian origins of evil

Bes Pantheos dates back to the Perisan Period, the term is modern, highly complex ideas are involved with regards to the Mehen serpent and Ouroboros, probably best avoided.

The Egyptian Ouroboros


edit on Kam33176vAmerica/ChicagoSaturday1831 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2017 @ 10:59 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

I have read it and you're failing to understand the difference between scribes in The House of Life and other general scribal professions and roles, they generated Egyptian religion through the production of original texts, as well as compiling and copying previous, in order to generate new religious expression involved practise beyond normative scribal activity.


They had no really formal religion, and it's not known how or who composed the hymns. However, it does not make sense to have this sort of material come from scribes (who were copyists and not originators.)


The Seven Mesopotamian sages tradition pre-dates the Egyptian were the original were Ante-Diluvian and non-human

And have no corresponding part in Egyptian religion.


The tradition of the House of Life established at Abydos is only one branch of a greater tradition, and for example the scribal Goddess Seshat is very limited in expression compared to her Sumerian counterpart Nisaba, were the tradition has far more depth and rationale.


The two religions are not that similar and were not borrowing deities for most of that time.


The idealized House of Life of Abydos is very much like the idealized Temple of the Qumran scroll, with regards to the inner court, and related to that Field constellation such as seen at Dendera on the ceiling zodiac;



There is nothing like that on the ceiling at Dendera.





And I believe you're misinterpreting this. The label says that this is "The booth of Osiris in the courtyard of the House of Life at Abydos" and if you look at the Map of the House of Life at Amarna, you will see that it looks nothing like your Jewish diagram and nothing at all like the drawing that you are presuming is a diagram. The drawing appears to be a drawing of a naos similar to the one in the Louvre (seen here) with the position of the deities marked in writing on that diagram. I can clearly read the names of the gods (Isis and Nepthys to the front. It is not a literal architectural drawing, because the name "Seb" is actually at the bottom of the drawing and the symbol for "west" is actually on top of the drawing; the one for East is at the bottom. The rest is too unclear and I'm no expert on hieroglyphs so I can't read it.


Qumran was the last gasp really of Hebrew scribal tradition, a twig that grew from the Egyptian branch, they could have explained to you the significance of Osiris, who was only ever concerned with the living;

Given that this is 900 miles from Cairo and by that time the hieroglyphic signs were not used (the last person able to read them would be dead within 100 years) and that the Hebrews despised the Egyptians (who were thought of as The Enemy)... I find this very hard to believe.


From the comparative perspective, both the educational mission of the Watchers and likening them to “gardeners” make perfect sense.

On Neo-Assyrian palace reliefs and seals, the famous apkallus as fish-cloaked men or as eagle-headed winged creatures are very often associated with the Tree of Life.

This is certainly Assyrian or Mesopotamian but has no correspondence in Egyptian literature or thought.


Bes Pantheos dates back to the Perisan Period, the term is modern, highly complex ideas are involved with regards to the Mehen serpent and Ouroboros, probably best avoided.

Yes, he's a new Ptolemaic twist on an old deity and different from the original.



posted on Mar, 19 2017 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

That was my point wasn't it that the House of Life scribes weren't your regular scribes, and they are credited with producing original text, sourced through mysterious methods.

What was actually involved with Bes Pantheos is that they attributed the seven souls or auras to him in the same manner that Humbaba in Mesopotamian religion was associated with them, these are seven auras imminent within nature, sublime essence in lowly form, there is a case that can be made that Bes was the Egyptian equivalent of Humbaba so it was natural he could be associate with such, this became popular from the Egyptian Persian onward, there's no point keep saying it was Ptolemaic when it obviously wasn't.

I have only stated the Abydos House of Life representation was an idealized form, not an architectural plan, the Temple scroll involves such also though they probably fancied building it too, the important thing there was giving the sacred proportions and numerics of the scheme, because the Field constellation in Mesopotamia and as seen at Dendera was a basic unit of measure that could be subdivided, it was all about units, the numbers that could be contained therein, like the New Jerusalem.

The major distinction with regards to the Hebrew scribal tradition is that they set themselves in opposition to all the others and declared absolute authority, there's a very strong case can be made that elements of such emerged from Egypt post-Amarna period as renegade Atenists and took up with the Habiru.



posted on Mar, 21 2017 @ 06:21 PM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

That was my point wasn't it that the House of Life scribes weren't your regular scribes, and they are credited with producing original text, sourced through mysterious methods.

"sourced through mysterious methods"?

I see this claim in gnostic and other works but not in the original Egyptian. Also, there's no reason why a high level scribe would not produce original works (in general, people like that held the title 'scribe' along with many other titles.)


What was actually involved with Bes Pantheos is that they attributed the seven souls or auras to him in the same manner that Humbaba in Mesopotamian religion was associated with them,

Mesopotamian... but not Egyptian and this attribution occurs in Hellenic times if I'm not mistaken.


these are seven auras imminent within nature, sublime essence in lowly form,

This sounds more like Hindu mysticism than Mesopotamian thought. I realize there's a lot of crossover possibilities because of proximity.


there is a case that can be made that Bes was the Egyptian equivalent of Humbaba

I don't think that's possible. Humbaba is a demon killed by Gilgamesh. He has no particular divine attributes. Bes, on the other hand, is very ancient, is a protector of people, is associated with childbirth and with merriment and sexuality.


so it was natural he could be associate with such,

They aren't very similar.


there's no point keep saying it was Ptolemaic when it obviously wasn't.

Others disagree. Assman (Assmann, Jan. "Magic and Theology in ancient Egypt." (1997): 1-18.) shows Bes Pantheos as a composite deity appearing in the Brookly papyrus (Ptolemaic) and Lucarelli (Lucarelli, Rita. "Demonology during the Late Pharaonic and Greco-Roman Periods in Egypt." Journal of Ancient Near Eastern Religions 11.2 (2011): 109-125.) also refers to Bes-Pantheos as Ptolemaic.


because the Field constellation in Mesopotamia and as seen at Dendera was a basic unit of measure that could be subdivided, it was all about units, the numbers that could be contained therein, like the New Jerusalem.

One more time...what is the "Field constellation"? and where is it shown in Dendera?


The major distinction with regards to the Hebrew scribal tradition is that they set themselves in opposition to all the others and declared absolute authority, there's a very strong case can be made that elements of such emerged from Egypt post-Amarna period as renegade Atenists and took up with the Habiru.

Hebrew monotheism is very different from Atenism and the idea that it came from Atenism (which has its origin in the writings of Freud and others of his time period) has been discredited as more material came to light. Hebrews weren't in Egypt in any significant numbers until after the time of Ramesses (and then not really until the time of the Ptolemys.)

I don't know a thing about Hebrew scribes, so can't comment there.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 05:41 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

The field constellation as the Pegasus square is seen in association with Pisces at Dendera, a plowed and irrigated field, in Mesopotamia the Field constellation related to specific units of area and measure in it's Earthly correspondence of the mundane field, the measure for such a field was 60 ĝiri3 × 60 ĝiri3, were a ĝiri3 or step measure was reckoned as 2 cubits, so the field measure was also 120 x 120 cubits with 14,400 area.



That corresponds to Mesopotamia;



With regards to Humbaba in a recently discovered passage he is associated with all the sounds of the forest that he rules over;


The new tablet continues where other sources break off, and we learn that the Cedar Forest is no place of serene and quiet glades. It is full of noisy birds and cicadas, and monkeys scream and yell in the trees,... In a parody of courtly life, the monstrous Humbaba treats the cacophony of jungle noises as a kind of entertainment

New Gilgamish passage


This is important with regards to the Book of Thoth tradition of knowing the language of all things, the Divine essence translated into humble physical form, this is the concern of Humbaba and also that of Bes and hence his association with childbirth, that point at which Divine essence is born into physical form, as this is his concern the natural guardian of such.

The paper i linked made a very long and detailed case that the iconography of Bes Pantheos was developed primarily from the Mehen serpent and he of many faces, which would generally correlate with the Mesopotamian seven headed Mushu, the concern there is with conflicts inherent within physical nature and the overcoming of these.



The seven auras in Mesopotamian tradition are understood as distributed within nature, that tradition is equally strong in Anatolia and a likely place of origin, there is dualism involved with regards to good and evil as manifest within nature, see The Heptad in Anatolia

Of course this also provided a basis for Vedic mysticism that emerged during their ascetic period were those seven spiritual essences were considered within the individual, but it certainly didn't originate there, and naturally this was a primary concern of Gnosticism later, but in terms of the seven auras in pleasing benevolent form these were generally related to the Pleiades, in Egypt correlating to the all singing and dancing seven Hathors.

There's no doubt Bes Pantheos was very popular during the Ptolemaic period but the required Theological considerations to assimilate the seven auras within Egyptian tradition refer back to the Persian period, who after all would have been more familiar with the Mesopotamian correspondences that were re-emphasized.

The Met Museum by the way has an example of Bes Pantheos from the First Persian period here



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