Am I just too politically jaded?

a reply to: dfnj2015

You make some legitimate points. I'll give you that.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
a reply to: dfnj2015

The only problem being that too much central government via the Fed and IRS has proven to be antithetical to the cause.

A more powerful central government is that government which has more responsibility. The more the very people which you wish to rely upon have power, the less liberty you will ever have.

You right and wrong at the same time. Here's the problem. Some people think the government is the biggest problem to our pursuit of happiness. But there is another point of view. Many people believe corporations, not government, is the biggest problem for our country and preventing us from pursuing happiness.

The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass legislation creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. The people who pay the lobbyists have representation. Everyone else just has taxation without representation.

It really doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. What DOES matter is the purchasing power of your take home pay. When the corporations run our government the workers have no way to defend themselves against corporate tyranny.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

Wealth inequality is at all time highs. Taxes can't be too bad because every year the richest people hold a greater percentage of the total wealth. Every year the median worker's wage is driven deeper and deeper into a poverty wage.

One thing is for sure you will never hear the so called "left wing media" ever talk about organizing workers strikes, wage fairness, or the cost of living being too high.

So I laugh at most of the posters here complaining and name calling liberals as the problem. The problem to what? What are liberals doing that is causing so much problems? Wealth inequality is at all time highs. What more do Republicans want? I think Republicans will not be happy until they literally have slave labor camps working for their corporations.

Yes, there may have been times in our history when government was so call "big" and kept the greedy CEOs in check. But 2017 is not that time. We are living during a time that is just the opposite. You can't have money concentrated in so few hands and still have the government currency have any value. Marx always said laissez faire capitalism is followed by communism. This is because unfettered greed would result in the government's currency collapsing. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will demand MORE government not less. See you in the bread lines comrades!

You're Hamilton trying to bring down King George III. It's the same thing in all but name.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: dfnj2015

So Populism is the "problem"? We have government officials making secret deals and secret rulings while lying to the American public about all of it, but Populism is the "problem." Ok.

When it comes down to it, we've been had as commoners. This is historically accurate, since you're appealing to history. As far as an FDR style of government ever re-emerging, I wouldn't count on it.

I will say this, Bernie Sanders did get screwed. You can thank your DNC for that. If you don't think Sanders was a Populist, then you must not know what Populism is. But Populism is the "problem"? I am sure the establishment would concur.

After all, the establishment screwed Bernie and tried to screw Donald. I mean, they went so far as CANCELING primaries... But, Populism is obviously "bad."

I don't think I ever said populism is the problem. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

People like Trump because he's a big bully. People voted for Hillary not because they liked her. People voted for Hillary because people want to see corporate power kept in check. But you are right, bad government is not the answer. Taking away our liberties is not the answer.

The problem is no one citizen can fight the power of the corporations. Only big government representing the worker making the median worker's wage can fight the tyranny of corporate power and poverty wages. At some point, after the government's currency collapses, and FDR type government will return. When millions of people in the streets start eating the rich then the rich will agree to 90% taxes like they did during FDR's administration.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: dfnj2015

So Populism is the "problem"? We have government officials making secret deals and secret rulings while lying to the American public about all of it, but Populism is the "problem." Ok.

When it comes down to it, we've been had as commoners. This is historically accurate, since you're appealing to history. As far as an FDR style of government ever re-emerging, I wouldn't count on it.

I will say this, Bernie Sanders did get screwed. You can thank your DNC for that. If you don't think Sanders was a Populist, then you must not know what Populism is. But Populism is the "problem"? I am sure the establishment would concur.

After all, the establishment screwed Bernie and tried to screw Donald. I mean, they went so far as CANCELING primaries... But, Populism is obviously "bad."

I don't think I ever said populism is the problem. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

People like Trump because he's a big bully. People voted for Hillary not because they liked her. People voted for Hillary because people want to see corporate power kept in check. But you are right, bad government is not the answer. Taking away our liberties is not the answer.

The problem is no one citizen can fight the power of the corporations. Only big government representing the worker making the median worker's wage can fight the tyranny of corporate power and poverty wages. At some point, after the government's currency collapses, and FDR type government will return. When millions of people in the streets start eating the rich then the rich will agree to 90% taxes like they did during FDR's administration.

I suspect that we agree more than we're willing to admit. Lol. I can't argue with anything you said.

I don't even consider myself "liberal" because I am not a big government person, but you summed many of my views up. Of course, I suspect that is part of the problem. Very few of us are strictly conservative or strictly liberal, the majority of us are a Mish mash of both. Perhaps that's where much of the political confusion arises. Not saying that's necessarily a negative, just saying that it might be a culprit for much of the ambiguity we seem to have politically in this country.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: dfnj2015

So Populism is the "problem"? We have government officials making secret deals and secret rulings while lying to the American public about all of it, but Populism is the "problem." Ok.

When it comes down to it, we've been had as commoners. This is historically accurate, since you're appealing to history. As far as an FDR style of government ever re-emerging, I wouldn't count on it.

I will say this, Bernie Sanders did get screwed. You can thank your DNC for that. If you don't think Sanders was a Populist, then you must not know what Populism is. But Populism is the "problem"? I am sure the establishment would concur.

After all, the establishment screwed Bernie and tried to screw Donald. I mean, they went so far as CANCELING primaries... But, Populism is obviously "bad."

I don't think I ever said populism is the problem. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

People like Trump because he's a big bully. People voted for Hillary not because they liked her. People voted for Hillary because people want to see corporate power kept in check. But you are right, bad government is not the answer. Taking away our liberties is not the answer.

The problem is no one citizen can fight the power of the corporations. Only big government representing the worker making the median worker's wage can fight the tyranny of corporate power and poverty wages. At some point, after the government's currency collapses, and FDR type government will return. When millions of people in the streets start eating the rich then the rich will agree to 90% taxes like they did during FDR's administration.

I suspect that we agree more than we're willing to admit. Lol. I can't argue with anything you said.

I don't even consider myself "liberal" because I am not a big government person, but you summed many of my views up. Of course, I suspect that is part of the problem. Very few of us are strictly conservative or strictly liberal, the majority of us are a Mish mash of both. Perhaps that's where much of the political confusion arises. Not saying that's necessarily a negative, just saying that it might be a culprit for much of the ambiguity we seem to have politically in this country.

Both parties are so twisted nowadays. Labels are kind of meaningless other than they create divisions. Divisions serve the status quo.

Maybe someday this country will come to its senses and close some of the 700+ foreign military bases we have around the world. Bring the troops home and build bases on our southern borders. Forget the wall. Let's create a jobs program building military bases on the southern border. Maybe that would be a good compromise.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to have the same arguments that were held 250 years ago.

Hence why I keep bringing these names up....

Considering the way things have worked, or not worked, in this country for the last few decades I don't think it is unusual to find yourself feeling jaded and cynical regarding politics and the two party system. I can't remember the last time I really honestly felt like either party represented me, my thoughts, my feelings. Unfortunately I, and many others, have to settle for the party that hits the most points on our scale of importance. Maybe I have to sacrifice one thing in order to gain two others with one party where I would have to give up two to get one with the other party. Oversimplified, but accurate. Or, as witnessed in the last election, it comes down to a matter of which party is the least revolting. Not the basis for the best functioning government but it is what it is. No matter how hard I tried I simply could not vote for hillary, or bill, or obama. I get ill just thinking about it. Biden will just plain make me puke. There is no more vapid creature on the face of the earth with the possible exception of pelosi - another great way to jump start a vomit. That left me Trump to vote for. I don't think he is the greatest POTUS or even the best we have available right now. But he won and I will support him and hope he does the job right. At last I believe him when he says he cares about this country. I never got that feeling from the democrats of late. He will make mistakes. But the democrats are giving him a get out of jail free card with all the obstructionist games they are playing. If his policies fail he can blame the democrats and say they would have worked if they had bi-partisan support. Just like obama did. First obama blamed it all on Bush. Then he blamed it on obstructionist republicans and the lack of bi-partisan support. Of course the more hypocritical of us will deny that option tooth and nail but the rest of us know it is coming.

The sad part of all of this is that the American people sent a clear message to the democrats - and they completely missed it. We are so sick of business as usual that we elected Trump! It wasn't because Trump is that great, its because electing him was that big of a slap in the face to TPTB. That should have been the wake up call. But it wasn't.

I weep for the future.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: dfnj2015

So Populism is the "problem"? We have government officials making secret deals and secret rulings while lying to the American public about all of it, but Populism is the "problem." Ok.

When it comes down to it, we've been had as commoners. This is historically accurate, since you're appealing to history. As far as an FDR style of government ever re-emerging, I wouldn't count on it.

I will say this, Bernie Sanders did get screwed. You can thank your DNC for that. If you don't think Sanders was a Populist, then you must not know what Populism is. But Populism is the "problem"? I am sure the establishment would concur.

After all, the establishment screwed Bernie and tried to screw Donald. I mean, they went so far as CANCELING primaries... But, Populism is obviously "bad."

I don't think I ever said populism is the problem. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

People like Trump because he's a big bully. People voted for Hillary not because they liked her. People voted for Hillary because people want to see corporate power kept in check. But you are right, bad government is not the answer. Taking away our liberties is not the answer.

The problem is no one citizen can fight the power of the corporations. Only big government representing the worker making the median worker's wage can fight the tyranny of corporate power and poverty wages. At some point, after the government's currency collapses, and FDR type government will return. When millions of people in the streets start eating the rich then the rich will agree to 90% taxes like they did during FDR's administration.

I suspect that we agree more than we're willing to admit. Lol. I can't argue with anything you said.

I don't even consider myself "liberal" because I am not a big government person, but you summed many of my views up. Of course, I suspect that is part of the problem. Very few of us are strictly conservative or strictly liberal, the majority of us are a Mish mash of both. Perhaps that's where much of the political confusion arises. Not saying that's necessarily a negative, just saying that it might be a culprit for much of the ambiguity we seem to have politically in this country.

Both parties are so twisted nowadays. Labels are kind of meaningless other than they create divisions. Divisions serve the status quo.

Maybe someday this country will come to its senses and close some of the 700+ foreign military bases we have around the world. Bring the troops home and build bases on our southern borders. Forget the wall. Let's create a jobs program building military bases on the southern border. Maybe that would be a good compromise.

I completely agree.