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Rumsfeld Seeks to Revive Burrowing Nuclear Bomb

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posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 09:32 AM
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I'd say there are a lot of trigger happy, gung-ho idiots here in the good 'ol US of A suffering from the cowboy mentality shoved down our throats in popular media. But, there are also a lot of responsible gun owners interested in protecting their loved ones and property and hunters. I believe in their right to own firearms.




posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by TRUTH AmbassadorI'm not holding my breath but the more time goes by without an attack the more I begin to think that maybe the terrorist are beginning to look at Iraq as a lost cause. Then again they are probably just taking time off to plan how they will mess up the election results to spark off a civil war.


History is usually the best indicator in these matters. It tends to repeat itself, especially when you ignore it. If you go back to the British occupation at the dawn of the 1900's, they were exactly where we now are.


Here are a couple good articles on this..

We need to get behind Sistani and hope for the best. I don't think any other alliance is more important to the future stability of Iraq. It would really help, too, if we'd pull our troops out into desert encampments - away from the iraqi population. We should train iraqi forces out there. It would be far safer for our troops and the population wouldn't be so constantly agitated by our presence. We'd also still be near enuff - by air - to help put down any resistance, if we were called upon.



Shi'ites begin push for Islamic constitution

February 2, 2005

By Thanassis Cambanis Boston Globe

NAJAF, Iraq - Top Shi'ite clerics, emboldened by what they perceive as a massive turnout by their followers for the coalition of Shi'ite religious parties, have already directed their attention to advocating for an Islamic constitution, several of them said in the aftermath of Sunday's election.

The turnout for the top-finishing electoral slate, a coalition of Islamist parties supported by the Shi'ite clerical establishment, has convinced leading clerics in Najaf that religious parties will have a majority in the Transitional National Assembly that will write Iraq's next constitution.

The clerics of Najaf who orchestrated the Shi'ite political party coalition say they expect a constitutional debate between hard-core Islamists, who want Koranic law to be the constitution's primary source, and moderate Islamists, who want a milder form of religious law. This debate, they say, will dwarf any challenge from secular parties.

US officials are counting on Islamists who oppose a direct role for clerics in government to prevail; otherwise, they fear, Iraq's Shi'ite majority could push the country in the direction of neighboring theocratic Iran. The officials say Iraq's Shi'ite clergy has supported democratic principles, including elections, and shown political restraint since the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime.
www.timesargus.com.../20050202/NEWS/502020368/1002/NEWS01




Why the US will not leave Iraq
By Pepe Escobar

Shi'ites will be in power in the Arab world for the first time in 14 centuries. So Iraqi elections are indeed historic. But it's not for US President George W Bush to proclaim Sunday's elections "a success", even before the results are known: it's for the Iraqi people, those who did and also those who did not vote. The undisputable fact is that apart from the Kurds - who since the first Gulf War in 1991 have lived under American protection - most Iraqis, Sunni or Shi'ite, voter or non-voter, in public or in private, blame the United States for the current chaos and their "liberation" from electricity, water, jobs and security. History may still reveal the case that Sunday's elections under occupation, with rules established by the occupier, suit everyone except the long-suffering 27 million Iraqis.
www.atimes.com...



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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Those were some inlightening articles ECK.
I guess all we can really do now is stand behind Sistani and pray for the best. That is an interesting idea of yours about pulling the troops back to the outskirts. It would also help the Iraqi security forces take a bigger role and push them forward as the face of security for the country.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by TRUTH Ambassador
Those were some inlightening articles ECK.
I guess all we can really do now is stand behind Sistani and pray for the best. That is an interesting idea of yours about pulling the troops back to the outskirts. It would also help the Iraqi security forces take a bigger role and push them forward as the face of security for the country.


Exactly! I'm glad you found those articles helpful.


The troop movement is such a no-brainer, it's ridiculous. It would be a win-win for everyone. Too bad Rummy and the boyz are clueless.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Ah ECK,

I missed your special brand of paranoia. How you turned a request for bomb research into a sign of American world hegemony is a work of conspiracy art.

Guess what? If Iran launches against Israel or Boston or Timbuktu and then keeps the controls buried in a hardened bunker for safe keeping... do you see a value in ONE nuke vs. 6 on the cities?



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by booger
Guess what? If Iran launches against Israel or Boston or Timbuktu and then keeps the controls buried in a hardened bunker for safe keeping... do you see a value in ONE nuke vs. 6 on the cities?


Who's paranoid?
I refer you back to Neumenon's post awhile back.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 08:09 PM
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Too bad Rummy and the boyz are clueless.


I don't know about Rummy and the boys being clueless you do have to give them props for the initial invasion. You have to have some brains to know how to suprise attack your enemy with a 300,000 man army that's been building up for several weeks. I will admit however they made a number of big mistakes since the invasion.

It just hit me that we've kinda turned this whole thread around from a nuclear bunker busting topic to a U.S. policy in Iraq thread.
oops Either way it is an important issue that needs to be talked about. At least it's been a good conversation.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by TRUTH Ambassador

I don't know about Rummy and the boys being clueless you do have to give them props for the initial invasion. You have to have some brains to know how to suprise attack your enemy with a 300,000 man army that's been building up for several weeks


We stole Iraq's sky and decimated their military during Desert Storm. What military that remained, dissolved and disappeared into the blowing sands at the onset of this invasion.

The race to Baghdad could have been quicker, believe it or not, and executed much more effectively. Rumsfeld, however, saw fit to piss our allies off - namely Turkey (cancelling out a descent from the North) and by throwing out the TipFid, which would have given our troops much needed backup (security) and supplies. We wouldn't have lost as many troops done the right way (think: Powell Doctrine)

If you want a study in how to go to war, look at the way Powell and Schwartzkopf did it. Desert Storm was as brilliantly executed as a war could be.

Having said that, I'd like to say that our men and women in uniform, despite their limitations, have served with honor and distinction. They are the bravest and most full of heart among our citizenry.
It just kills me that they are having to follow the dictates of this corrupt administration - especially Rumsfeld. To him, they are nothing.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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Here are a few articles that discuss the TipFid (Time-Phased Force Deployment Data System) and the consequences of throwing it out in favor of Rummy's Transformation vision.



ON WAR # 10: The Duke Of Medina Sidonia

By William S. Lind
April 1, 2003

In planning a war, the most important task is to understand what can be planned and what cannot. In general, the initial disposition of forces can be planned, and it must be planned with great care. As Field Marshal von Moltke said, "A mistake in initial dispositions can seldom be put right." But Moltke also said, "No plan survives its first contact with the enemy." Once you cross the enemy's border, you have to adjust and improvise constantly. The conduct of war, as distinct from preparation for war, is (Moltke again) "a matter of expedients." Count von Schlieffen thought otherwise, and in the famous Schlieffen Plan he attempted to extend the logic of railway mobilization planning into the campaign itself. Not surprisingly, the result was failure and, for Germany, a lost war.
www.freecongress.org...




September 8, 2003

Army troops, budget stretched to the limit

By James Kitfield, National Journal

According to Army sources, the Army's own initial analysis of the Iraq war reflected much more ambivalence about the battle plan and its relevance for future wars. At senior civilians' insistence, for instance, the Army substituted Apache helicopters for heavy-artillery systems. Yet on the Apaches' first deep strike over Baghdad suburbs—the kind of urban environment that characterized much of the Iraqi campaign— virtually all of the helicopters were damaged by ground fire; one went down, and its crew was captured. Moreover, a later attack by Apaches using modified and more-cautious tactics hit relatively few enemy targets.

"We thought from the very beginning that the war plan was too heavy on Apaches," said a senior Army officer involved in developing and executing the Iraqi Freedom campaign. "We also conducted our own analysis because we knew that certain people would use this lessons-learned exercise to rewrite the history of this war in a way that would prove their personal agendas in terms of where the Army should be headed."

For Iraqi Freedom, Rumsfeld also decided to jettison the U.S. Central Command's carefully constructed and sequenced deployment plan, called the Time-Phased Force Deployment Data system, or "TipFid." Rumsfeld's office said it was too inflexible and would lead to "calcified" battle planning. Although Army officers concede that Rumsfeld's "rolling start" to the Iraq war arguably contributed to tactical surprise and increased agility, the move greatly complicated the Army's already-complex logistical challenge. Even as lead U.S. Army elements were fighting on the outskirts of Baghdad, for example, forces needed for the fight were still pouring off ships in the Kuwaiti port of Doha, and not necessarily in the order of first priority or with adequate support. The 101st Airborne Division arrived without its full complement of transport trucks, for instance, and initially had trouble moving around the battlefield, and the Corps Support Command in charge of supplying forces along a 186-mile logistics line was short of critical communications equipment. Rumsfeld's decision to slash Central Command's original request for forces roughly in half, meanwhile, kept the extended logistics line vulnerable to hit-and-run attacks throughout the war.
www.afge171.org...



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Rumsfeld, however, saw fit to piss our allies off - namely Turkey (cancelling out a descent from the North)


Wasn't the reason for scrapping the northern front out of Turkey because the Turkish government couldn't make up their minds about us staging the front from their country? I think they eventually said no and delayed our invasion plans by making the 4th I.D. (I think it was the 4th) have to pack up and rejoin our forces in the south.



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 07:58 AM
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The new leader opposed Bush's pre-emptive war. (That's why he was elected.) He probly knew there were no WMD.

The vast majority of Turkish citizens opposed it.



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