EU Employers can now ban Burkhas and all established religious Jewellery

a reply to: ketsuko

Nope, just a court making the logical judgement that a working environment which dictates a neutral appearance free from displays of political, philosophical, or religious ideology, is not discriminatory.

Fashion style etc has always been a freedom to dictate by private business and rightly so.
Now freedom to dictate a neutral environmenthas been deemed non discriminatory.

Do you disagree?
Do you think belief in unverifiable gods gives a person the right to display their ideology in a private business?
I don't for the reasons I've stated.

I'm interested in why you would disagree with this judgement?

where will it end though? what if my religion is the church of the jolly green giant......am i then not allowed to have a picture of him on my desk or my t shirt?

policing the innumerable symbols may make the implementation of this thing very unwieldy.

a reply to: tribal

Nope, EU employers are free to have environments where they choose rules of neutrality, and now there is no get out jail card for religious people because there is no discrimination in neutrality.

EU employers have always been free to dictate against fashion trends.
...and what items are placed on desks or not.
The business owns the desk, not you.

originally posted by: dawnstar


have a question about the "burkas" though, which by what I read extends over to headscarves..
so, let's say you have an employee who just had surgery that required a good bit of hair to be shaved off, is anyone going to enforce a ban on head scarves on her, really? I kind of think that if they did, they might find that a number of female employees would be having a head shaving party after work in solidarity for the person or something.. but if an exception was made for her, then one would have to ask, why would her need to be able to wear be deemed more worthy than another person's freedom to practice their religion? a head scarf is a head scarf, and they come in many forms by the way.

I would imagine that if a person recently had had brain surgery, chemotherapy or some similar procedure that resulted in baldness, or needing to cover their head due to open wounds or something like that, it would fall under a medical need of some sort rather than a religious preference.

I would think that making an allowance for a medical condition would still be non-discriminatory. Then again, in this day and age, it wouldn't surprise me if someone said that was discriminating against the healthy people...smh. For example, "It's not fair that I'm not dying!" or "Hey, she has cancer and isn't sharing with the rest of us!"

a reply to: DustbowlDebutante

Any sensible HR dept worth its salt would include an "exceptional circumstances" paragraph in company dress/appearance codes.

Personally, I think it's a good thing, religion has no place in society let alone the workplace.

On the other hand I'm worried about my mate who wears white and fawn robes to work and is a staunch Jedi. It was already quite a contentious issue and it was hard convincing him to leave his light saber at home, this won't help matters.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

Lol, exactly

originally posted by: dawnstar

have a question about the "burkas" though, which by what I read extends over to headscarves..

I believe the burka covers the face?

and

I personally like to see the face of any person I am speaking with.

So, let's say you have an employee who just had surgery that required a good bit of hair to be shaved off, is anyone going to enforce a ban on head scarves on her, really?

I know three women who lost hair through chemotherapy .... they wore

wigs in the same style and colour of the hair they lost.

There are ways and means .........

a reply to: eletheia

The headscarf specific thing is a non issue in an employee environment where the public display is neutrality.
Headscarves fall under general dress code rules now with no free hall pass for religious faith.

Same for crucifixes and wristbands for Help For Heroes or whatever.

The business defending the wrongful dismissal case played a blinder legally with the neutrality argument.
The EU court could not argue discrimination, and it isn't often you'll see me supporting anything EU, but this specific judgement, yes, absolutely.

a reply to: schuyler

By oppressing the rights of a person to express themselves to force inclusion? Inclusion into what? A society molded in some bureaucrat's preferred image?

Can you even force people to be included? Is that the right way to go about it? Will people thank you for being forced to be included?

a reply to: ketsuko

Nobody is forced to work for an EU business which has a dress code demanding neutrality regarding expression of religious, philosophical, or political views.

The court has deemed this a non discriminatory situation. I agree with the court.

Your belief in unverifiable god/s does not give you the right to display your particular ideology in a neutral workplace.
Unlucky, no crucifix on show at the desk for you.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Ah, so inclusive!

It includes everyone, so yeah....

a reply to: DerBeobachter

There is an idea that rushed laws make for bad laws. There are so many religious symbols will the employers be able to identify ALL? What about misidentifications?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: schuyler

By oppressing the rights of a person to express themselves to force inclusion? Inclusion into what? A society molded in some bureaucrat's preferred image?

Can you even force people to be included? Is that the right way to go about it? Will people thank you for being forced to be included?

I think it is down to the individual employer to make that call as to whether or not such a law is actually enforced.

a reply to: HeathenJessie

Did you know that the Jedi are a recognised religion in the UK?

originally posted by: watchitburn
Interesting.

This isn't really in keeping with the all inclusive pro Muslim immigration policies the EU has been pushing.

I wonder what the underlying goal is here.

It is still all-inclusive as the Burkha is not a specifically Islamic piece of attire as it is not specifically commanded in the Koran I m told.

a reply to: DerBeobachter

I can see your pint. However As I have argued elsewhere the Burkha is not especially Moslem. I suppose it more expresses a modern dress from a fashion tribe.

a reply to: Tiger5

Who cares? This unfair dismissal court case set a precedent that a neutral workplace banning employee personal display of any political, philosophical, or religious ideology is not discriminatory.

...and to the religious who might whine, this also stops militant atheists wearing badges/buttons mocking unverifiable gods lol