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CBO says 14 mil Will Lose Coverage Next Year Under GOP Health Care Plan

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posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: GreyScale

mine went form $250.00 to $350.00.

the plan I had was noncompliant, so Obama got rid of it. i'm grateful. one visit to the emergency room cost me $2500.00. the insurance was crap

I just had an out-patient procedure with my new insurance. cost me $100.00 total.

insurance companies offering crappy insurance will flourish again, drug companies will start raking in the doe, and the middle class will suffer the most. yay. it's crazy how some vote against their best interests.






That's the snake oil the GOP are selling
Snake oil health insurance

They are saying gee whiz buying health insurance over state lines will lower prices...


The fact is, as you point out, those policies will be crap...




posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: lostbook

I'd rather lose the $24,000 yearly max out of pocket and my $1023.00 monthly premium and do what the illegals do for healthcare...look how much of my own SS money that would be used by ME!


Your example describes PERFECTLY how ObamaCare-ACA totally screws people who aren't poor, nor rich. The "back bone" individuals and families in America prefer an ObamaCare Repeal-Replace, but will accept a straight ObamaCare Repeal.

ANYTHING is better than the hellish crap that the Affordable Care Act is shoveling at Middle/Upper-Middle income Americans.

If Congress can work up the guts to follow through on their 7 years of promises and pledges to the American people, you'll be able to get a wonderful health plan.

$5,000 - $10,000 Family Deductible (i.e. All family med claims go to a single deductible).
$500 to $900 a month premium.
$5,000 - $10,000 reduction in taxable income each year.
Big financial nest egg for your retirement, if you didn't use the H.S.A. $$$ for medical bills every year.
edit on 3/13/2017 by carewemust because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Imagine that. It's almost like everyone said this was a terrible plan.


It's a GREAT PLAN for those who choose to go without Health Insurance. No more Penalty to pay! They can just wait until they need medical care and sign-up with their I-Phone en-route to the hospital. Get the treatment and cancel the plan!

We didn't have insurance last year and got around that penalty. Not that we wanted to, but budget dictated so. .


Yep..you got the "hardship exemption". Roughly 80% of the people who paid the penalty, didn't have to.

Take a look at the official government exemption form. There are FOURTEEN (14) categories of hardship exemptions from having to pay the penalty.

Link: marketplace.cms.gov...

Number 14 is the "catch all", LOL.

-cwm



No s#, Sherlock. I have friends with MUCH higher incomes than us and zero actual hardship using the same clause, some since day one. Anyone can claim "too expensive".

Pull your head out of your ass. The catch-all is the presented-on-a-silver-platter way to avoid the penalty.


My apologies. You're not used to my writing style. When I reply, I'm actually wording my response in a way to educate the many people who visit ATS who never post...and aren't even members. (I learn a lot by visiting other forums and clicking on links provided by thoughtful members.)

NYIAH: I have NO DOUBT that YOU will be one of those people who get sick, buy the insurance, get the treatment, cancel the plan. You're an ACE "gamer". AM I RIGHT?
edit on 3/13/2017 by carewemust because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 09:56 PM
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I disagreed with Obamacare because of the mandate and lack of sufficient safety nets for those "few" (turned out to be millions) caught between the cracks with skyrocketing premiums and worse care, despite standards ostensibly intended to ensure that didn't happen. I disagree with this plan because it will, if enacted as depicted here, merely subject different demographics to similar hardships.

The enemy is not the left or right - the enemy is outright, undisguised corporatism and always has been imo. Obamacare was largely based on (conservative) think tank the Heritage Foundation's blueprint for healthcare reform, and wasn't too far from what Romney did in his own state. Insurance companies helped draft the ACA. There were some good things in it, but there were also things I massively took issue with. The same is true of this proposal, and neither plan had anything to do with liberalism or conservatism as far as I'm concerned.

I know people don't want to hear or believe it, and that is their prerogative and I respect it, but the chances are extremely high imo that premiums will never go down, and there will never, ever be a magic bullet that can fix this from an economic standpoint. The most we can hope for is a system that doesn't ruin people's lives, throw anyone under the bus, impoverish them (or worse,) and puts people before the interests of corporations.

So far, neither the Democratic nor the Republican establishment have put forth a plan that truly meets those criteria, and I sincerely doubt they ever will. We are not the ones who prove lucrative for them or support their livelihoods, after all. They are rarely held accountable, on either side of the isle, with the Princeton study clearly demonstrating that legislation rarely if ever correlates with the wishes of the public, even when sizable majorities are demanding something. Instead, they offer a "plan" which claims to do that which the public demands, but is nothing of the sort, and then rely on partisanship and hyper polarity to support it in an entrenched way, even against people's own best interests.

Again, both sides do this.

Forgive me for having little hope that any politician in either party, or positioned anywhere on the political, ideological compass, who relies primarily on large corporate donors to thrive, will ever put forth a plan that does what people say they want it to. I'd love to be proven wrong. So far, not even close. Ever.

Peace.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

You need prayer, mOjOm.

Edit: Consider it done.


edit on 3/13/2017 by carewemust because: God Remove His Bitterness and Pain.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: AceWombat04

Democrats made some progress, that’s a fact. The GOP wants to go backwards, that’s a fact.


If you see no difference then you might not be looking


If Obamacare is broke make it better not worse


That’s common sense



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

How is it "freedom" when an otherwise healthy American willfully uninsured is hit by a drunk driver, ends up getting just stitched up enough by a hospital for free to go home, then can't afford physical therapy or follow up treatments. They never fully recover for the above or other reasons,and due to this develop chronic health problems that are only treated when they rise to an emergent state.

This "free" person loses their "freedom" and becomes a burden to the entire society they should be supporting as a citizen.

They become entrappped in a healthcare welfare state the rest of their lives. Collect disability. And are the exact type of welfare vampire the right so openly decries as the problem.

336b saved over time doesn't begin to include contingencies like this very basic scenario.

I spent the night hanging with two Of my best friends, who are trump faithful and alt right types. They are both currently unemployed and get their coverage from Obamacare's Medicaid for low to no income programs.

I'm actually not working except for short term consulting and pay 560 a month for my insurance.

I brought up how their Medicaid may be threatened or lost or otherwise challenged by this bill. They swiftly changed the subject to Muslims.

Smdh.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: chaeone86

I remember when I was looking for full time work and then Obamacare was passed. All the jobs pretty quickly dried up and a lot of the full-timers I worked with got let go so the company I'm employed by could stay under the employee cap.

I've been stuck at part-time for all of the Obama admin, and we live in fear every year that my husband's company will drop benefits so that we're stuck on the Obamacare exchange. If that happens, we'll be bankrupt.

My hope, and likely your buddies' too, is that the economy comes back to where I might finally gain full-time employment again.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust

My apologies. You're not used to my writing style. When I reply, I'm actually wording my response in a way to educate the many people who visit ATS who never post...and aren't even members. (I learn a lot by visiting other forums and clicking on links provided by thoughtful members.)

Apologies for not interpreting your writing style as you intended. You appeared to be replying direct and I based my own on that.


NYIAH: I have NO DOUBT that YOU will be one of those people who get sick, buy the insurance, get the treatment, cancel the plan. You're an ACE "gamer". AM I RIGHT?

No. My husband is a cancer survivor, we felt very vulnerable sans insurance last year and still will this year. Personal financial goals required making a choice between either the goals or keeping insurance, and we chose to forgo insurance.
When my husband's employer's annual enrollment is open again, we'll be able to relax much more. Paying OOP covers only so much. Granted yes, it's significantly cheaper to pay out of pocket for a check-up for everyone versus the annual premium, it also has the potential to spiral into a deep debt quickly and anyone who's faced serious illness knows this and knows it's not a safe bet to play with forever.

We will not voluntarily be the idiots who say "f# insurance, it's my money assholes!" Not worth it beyond a short term trade-off gamble.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

I never said I saw no difference or that it made no progress. None of that is mutually exclusive with anything I said. I'm a liberal - probably far more liberal than most mainstream Democrats - but that does not exonerate them from my (strong) criticisms and even, at times like this - when their policies and strategies led to utter defeat due to among other things their crippling and continuing infatuation with corporatism, refusal to heed and respond to the real pain of a large portion of this nation's citizenry (including many of their own constituents,) and out of touch entitlement with regard to the inevitability of victory for their anointed candidate - "polite" excoriation. That's not false equivalency: that's what happened in my reality.

They inflicted a large amount of detriment on real people (including people I know and love,) who suffered in actual reality. The failure to see and respond to those people is why they lost in part, and it's precisely because of their refusal to acknowledge and amend this that they may very well lose again. It doesn't matter much that one side is the slightly lesser of two evils - or even substantially less depending on your point of view - when the root of said "evil" is corporatism and beholden-ness to corporate interests on both sides of the isle.

So long as big money dictates legislative policy, I maintain that it matters not which side is the current culprit. Not because they are precisely equivalent, but because until that changes, the difference is insubstantial in the long term with respect to true reform.

I'll hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils when given zero alternative, because the stakes are enormous, but that doesn't mean I have to ignore or give my blessing to everything they do, or think it's acceptable that no preferable alternatives exist, and Obamacare, drone strikes, bank bailouts, treatment of whistleblowers, failure to prosecute torture, and corporatism are counted among those.

That's where I stand, period.

Peace.
edit on 3/13/2017 by AceWombat04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: rickymouse
Why don't we just go to socialized health care and be done with it. Many of the doctors I know would love to have that. It would be a lot less stressful. I actually asked doctors I know, I do not assume they would not like it. Ask your doctor.

No malpractice insurance costs to worry about, no worries about billing insurance companies, no employees to worry about paying wages too, lots less stress and actually bonuses if you get someone fixed right away.

I would also prefer getting a yearly salary over a hundred grand if I was a doctor. Most would probably make more than working for a hospital. Government pension too.


Wonder how they will like working for $75k/yr? You aren't going to get socialized medicine and Doctors making big bucks....


It is more like a hundred ten thousand a year. That is what I read about in Europe and places that have socialized medicine. Most doctors make about that now.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Sounds like these employers were the problem, not the plan. They must have been sharky self seeking a$$hats.

When Obamacare was passed I worked at a firm with 4 people. They gave us literature on the ACA and the option to take it but said no matter the cost they would keep our (awesome and comprehensive) employee plan in place. I saw Obamacare options at minimum of 200 a month whereas my employer offered top insurance at a 90 a month deduction.

Guess what I'm trying to say is compassion is a rare commodity these days. Would have saved them a buck to release obligation and send us to the exchange without any dialogue in the first place.

And not to get overly political, but the partners at my firm were very left, but compassionate and put humanity over profit in their decisions. I would imagine the type of company that is firing below employee caps to save a buck on offering insurance were the exact brand of fiscal conservative who believes we must live in a dog eat dog world and profit above all else. They downsize to release any required employee plan then on the back end complain about the very system they've consigned their employees to use. Ironically, the least Christian viewpoint I've ever heard.

Low income types who support the rights agenda have just been brainwashed by machevellians. It's sad. Nobody should have to wait for the job market to enable/support their healthcare needs. We don't have to live in that kind of world. That we are debating on such terms in the first place belies how pathetic its become.



edit on 13-3-2017 by chaeone86 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2017 by chaeone86 because: New idea



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:48 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: AceWombat04

Democrats made some progress, that’s a fact.

If Obamacare is broke make it better not worse

That’s common sense
.



Democrats "made progress" by enabling 13 million Americans to enroll in Medicaid. The cost to America is $5,632 per Medicaid enrollee each and every year. $74 Billion just for 2017. That cost is paid by Obamacare fees and taxes imposed on the American taxpayer.

President Obama had the chance to fix his signature "achievement", but declined. Americans decided to give Donald Trump and Republicans the task...which they are now working on accomplishing THEIR WAY.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

You are ignoring the cost to the system of uninsured individuals in emergency rooms getting free care, vs. the cost of them entering into the Medicaid risk pool.

You are ignoring the suffering of uninsured individuals getting "just enough" care in emergent environments only to be left with chronic mental and physical illnesss and becoming a suck on the disability and welfare system.

I had one trip to the ER this last year that cost 15k for 48hrs of emergency care. It was covered by my insurance. They paid the hospitals bills. 5-6k per each Medicaid recipient? That's nothing compared to the burden of free care given to (recklessly) uninsured people.

You just don't. Know. What. You. Are. Talking. About.
edit on 13-3-2017 by chaeone86 because: Example provided.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 10:54 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Why in the hell do I need prayer???

I you sure I don't need funny shoes, or a fancy hat or some other arbitrary item while I'm talking to myself??

You go ahead and pray all you want though. That's your thing not mine.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:08 PM
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Actually the CBO estimates are slightly more favorable for Trumpcare than the GOP estimates. GOP thought 16 million would lose their healthcare right off the bat. CBO had 14 million.

Regardless, this bill is absolutely a sh it show. The fact that it is estimated to have eventually have over 26 million out of insurance is absurd on so many levels.

The one issue that nobody has talked about yet is how Trumpcare will impact hospitals. A healthy hospital network depends on a balanced portfolio of payment from insurance companies, medicare, medicaid, and cash payouts. Losing a chunk of privately insured people as well as medicare/medicaid patients is going to put many hospitals out of business.

This is horrendous on several levels and all reasonable Americans need to fight Trumpcare to its bitter death.


originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Indigo5

The CBO's estimate of the cost of a plan is way off. The post ObamaCare health insurance plans haven't even been designed. All they can do is estimate based on the hellishly high ObamaCare plan premiums.




posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Amen. You are communicating to this user what I have been trying to in all my replies.

Do these people not understand that even the healthiest young person may find themselves (uninsured) in an ER environment!?

It's called an ER for a reason. And it's called insurance for a reason too. Bad things happen to good, healthy people that were unanticipated.

I just don't know what more to say! The other side of this argument is wearing rose colored glasses.
edit on 13-3-2017 by chaeone86 because: Expanded



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:22 PM
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a reply to: chaeone86

That's how the rich mind f*ck the public though. That's what this all is and if you look around it's literally everywhere and some people are still cheering about it.

These are working poor and middle class once again taking the hit and kick backs to the rich and super rich and still so many are all yippee about it. The same salt of the earth folk that farm and contribute to society that voted Trump in too. The same people he promised to help so much. I mean come on people at this point to still be arguing in favor you really just have to be in on the scam or just trying to destroy a normal society.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:23 PM
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Here is the insanity of the right wingers over Obamacare.

Many of the right wingers believed in Trump that he would repeal and replace with something better. As we are all seeing, Trumpcare is a Frankenstein version of Obamacare except for the fact that the only people that will benefit are the corporations and the super rich. For middle/lower class America and seniors, this will at best put a lot of people in financial difficulties. But at worst, this will kill thousands of Americans.

Reasonable minds everywhere always see that Republicans vote against their best interests. Never has that been proved correct than voting for Trump. I'm sure most right wingers voted for Trump to stick it to the liberals and Obama. What they didn't realize was that many of them that are poor and having financial difficulties voted to passively commit suicide instead.

Many right wingers live in misery, most of which are caused by their own behaviors or beliefs. The chicken are coming home to roost in a big way here.

Like I said and I still confirm. Many are going to die under Trump's presidency. Trumpcare is just one of the tools that will make this happen.
edit on 13-3-2017 by SeekingAlpha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:31 PM
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Here's a true story about one of my in-laws.

The guy is a doctor and a hardcore republican. He hates all things liberal and despised Obama.

But here's the thing, this doctor (who is making $300K a year) has a weak heart and before Obamacare, no insurance company would cover him.

Two years ago, he had a heart attack and went to the hospital for 3 weeks to recover. Obamacare covered him and he left the hospital with....wait for it.....$5000 in hospital bills. He admits it that if he didn't have Obamacare, he 1. would have died and 2. if he survived, he would have had to declare bankruptcy as the real cost of his heart attack was over $400,000.

My in law is still an idiot, he still hates Obama and liberals for whatever stupid reason. But when the topic of Trump's repeal/replace Obamacare.....he keeps quiet and shuts the F up. He knows as we know, if Obamacare is gone, so is he.


originally posted by: chaeone86
a reply to: SeekingAlpha

Amen. You are communicating to this user what I have been trying to in all my replies.

Do these people not understand that even the healthiest young person may find themselves (uninsured) in an ER environment!?

It's called an ER for a reason. And it's called insurance for a reason too. Bad things happen to good, healthy people that were unanticipated.

I just don't know what more to say! The other side of this argument is wearing rose colored glasses.




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