1958, when Muslims laughed at the idea of imposing the hijab to women

In the mid 20th century, the Middle East have been dominated by dictators while brutal to their opponents, are actually pretty progressive for their time. For example, under General Nasser in Egypt circa 1950s, he believed that religion is a private thing and that it shouldn't be out in public and that women don't need to get covered. It is not until the 1980s when the US and Saudi Arabia started supporting Radical Islam by allowing them to be exported to other countries like Afghanistan (There was a thread that shows long before the Soviets took over, Afghanistan is a very progressive place where women don't have to wear a burkha). Part of the reasons why Radical Islam did not get a foothold under these dictators was that many of them will not allow Radical Islam in their borders and any Radical Muslim that got caught were executed immediately.

Thanks the US and Saudi Arabia, Radical Islam exploded and are now affecting the US and other Western nations.

Basically, the Middle East was on it's way to modernizing until Radical Islam ended up gaining power. Now women in places like Egypt have to veil.




Also relevant (I'm no fan of Marine Le Pen but I understand where she is coming from for refusing to wear a headscarf after being told by a High ranking Muslim that she has to wear one to meet him)

a reply to: starwarsisreal


Yes but Nasser was a freakin giant and true man of the people. When he dies he had less then £300 pounds in his personal bank account! Can you imagine any of the current crop of leaders doing that?? Democrat or Republican?

I have been to Tunisia and seem my friends mother's photos of her in the 1960s. The pictures were of a woman in a miniskirt with great legs! She is now covered from head to toe.

My point is hat we must all protect our freedoms against all fundamentalists

a reply to: starwarsisreal
Nasser had a wonderful degree of social liberality - but let us not forget that he increased his dictatorial powers under his rule, imprisoned dissidents and political competition, and even denied the Holocaust happened. The last is understandable in context of the state of war Egypt was in - but it is still rather low by any standards.

a reply to: SargonThrall

I'm not a fan of Nasser's way of treating political opponents but the benefits was he managed to keep the Muslim Brotherhood from taking control.

It is a well known fact that without these dictators, Radical Muslims ended up gaining a foothold. Look at Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. Part of the reason why ISIS will never gain a foothold if Saddam is still alive and is in power was because Saddam will torture them by putting them in boiling water.

Yes it's brutal but these dictators are just reacting to the political and cultural atmosphere since they know about how dangerous and appealing Radical Islam are. For example look at Egypt after Mubarak got kicked out. The people there ended up voting for Radical Muslims to take power. If the military didn't step in and take out the Muslim Brotherhood, the Egyptian Pyramids would have been destroyed and many people will suffer under their rule.

Not mention because Egypt is closer to Europe, the Brotherhood will simply send in soldiers among the refugees to wreck havoc on Europe.

a reply to: SargonThrall

True denying the holocaust is a terrible thing! I did not know he did that.

But doesn't this emphasise the point that the things we associate with Islam (headscarfs covering the face, chopping hands off, executions, misogyny etc) are more to do with the politics of those individual countries.

There are muslim countries that have banned full-face veils - Singapore, Tunisia, Egypt, Malaysia, Syria (for students).

There are Catholic countries that are guilty of terrible anti-human rights laws - Uganda, Central African Republic etc

If there is a link it appears that countries with high poverty are much easier to control using high-fear fundamentalist religion as a backdrop.

a reply to: Tiger5

While I am not a fan of Holocaust denialism, I would take Nasser any day over someone from ISIS, Muslim Brotherhood and any other groups promoting Radical Islam.

Unlike Radical Islam, at least Nasser only focused on events in his region.

With Radical Islam, they threatened EVERYBODY.

In fact look at Japan and how refugees behaved when they arrived there:

a reply to: starwarsisreal

You know we have other religions that impose a particular type of dress on their followers. The Amish come to mind. The women have to wear their bonnets, old style dress and they're not allowed to wear make-up. The men have to wear those same "Little House on the Prairie" style of overalls and have to grow beards.

I don't follow any religion, but I think it's extremely controlling and for their followers to be so complicit in adapting these habits shows how religion brainwashes humanity at a very young age. There's no free will at birth because parents force their beliefs on their children at a very young age. They conform to these oppressed religious life styles and don't dare thinking outside the box.

The reason why most people are a particular religion or follow a particular political belief is because their parents instill these beliefs in their children at a very young age. Most wouldn't think of changing their beliefs as they get older because of the constant fear of condemnation and the threat of burning in hell after they die. The fear is deep seeded and to believe otherwise will give them a ticket to eternal damnation.

People follow these religions that enslave them or continue to think these beliefs are from a loving God. Even after their own belief systems have proven to be hypocritical, judgmental, and justify killing God's own creations! Religion has been responsible for a lot of conflicts and killings in this world. Talk about being sheeple, people need to wake up and smell the roses. You can lead a caring and loving life without enslaving yourself or having people who are no better than yourselves control how you think. The only "religion" we need to follow in life is the Golden Rule.

I was lucky enough to do the old hippy trail back in the 70's passing through what's now Iran/Iraq and ending up in Afghanistan. Amazing places nothing like what they are today. Kabul was superb fun although even then outside the cities rape was commonplace especially against foreigners.


Its so sad to see how its declined. Its normal for grandmothers to be envious of younger generations' freedoms, not the other way around

Wow , they looked beautiful in the 60's

Sad stuff.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Wow , they looked beautiful in the 60's

Sad stuff.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

a reply to: starwarsisreal


You made zero case of how this is US fault. And Iran is the prime go to nation to demonstrate how the radical fundamental screwed a culture up.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

It's a cancer, they're Neanderthals with a false cause. Behead someone becuase they insult your prophet? That's a cult, not a religion.

Turkey may be next and it's nobody else's fault.
Reading it seems like there were no scarves before this golden junta period, no Sultan and Ottoman before Brits.
Nasser also wanted to destroy Israel. Should the world fear to remove any future dictator off the road because the male population has rowdies' mentality and dangerous, false religion/ideology?
In Syria, maybe except secular army forces, all sides ridiculously yell alahuakbar while killing each other.
It could go on like this for the next 10-20 years with a little orchestration untill there was no muslim male left.
They would use swords and horses if they run out of ammo.

I love how even the audience were laughing with him.

All this goes to show is that fundamental Islam is a poisonous religion. I have nothing against people worshipping whomever, whether it be Allah, God, or the flying spaghetti monster.

But

NOBODY has the right to impose their religious beliefs upon an entire nation and make them the law of the land. Neither does any religion have "special' rights that supersede or contravene common law.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: starwarsisreal


You made zero case of how this is US fault. And Iran is the prime go to nation to demonstrate how the radical fundamental screwed a culture up.

Good point.
We are constantly reminded how the CIA installed the Reza Pahlevi as the Shah of Iran.
Now we are supposed to believe that the US caused the fundamentalists there to make women cover their faces?

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I'm trying to post from memory but 1959 an educationalist (whatever that is) was in the US to study their methods of teaching, by the name of Sayeed Qtub (Sayid?).

He hated the supposed decadence and decided to treat it as a disease. This disease is so insidious you don't even know you've got it, only a 'proper' muslim could tell. He formulated his own version of hard-line Islamism and on his return to Egypt started to spread his ideas and form a group of like minded people. He saw the western influence as a blight on the middle east

He got into trouble, was imprisoned and tortured by guards allegedly trained by the CIA. This only served to harden his resolve.
His followers continued to meet in secret.

They let him out. BIG mistake. He continued to spread the word and gained a following which was a threat to government and , eventually, was arrested with a load of others. He ended up being executed but a young boy by the name Ayaad Alzawihiri (yeah, him. But check spelling sorry) took up the mantle and the ideology spread through him.

So. Prior to that the Islamic world was probably pretty cool for most.

The full story is on a series of films called The Power of Nightmares. Its in three parts and charts the history of radical Islam from Qtubs inception of the ideology and the reaction of the Neo-Cons in the states. Then through the first Afghan troubles to the Iraq war. I've got it on DVD but I'll bet its on you tube.
Sorry I can't give a link from this phone but I don't think its hard to find. Part one explains the very beginning of all this.

If Nasser had executed Qtub just a few years earlier we might not have ended up with what's going on now. It doesn't paint a particularly flattering picture of the war for profit Neo-Cons either. Its a good documentary and well worth a watch if you want to see how all this started.

Apologies for any errors above but I haven't slept.

originally posted by: Tiger5
a reply to: SargonThrall

True denying the holocaust is a terrible thing! I did not know he did that.

Perhaps he had read the Jewish population stats from the 1933 and 1948 Jewish World Almanacs and mistakenly deduced that six or ten million Jews couldn't have perished! Or read the linked red cross report, released 1948 in Geneva, and thought that was truth instead of believing the official readest digest article, "Remember us", that told in 1943, that 6 million jews had died (Adolf must have supplied Readist Digest with the stats). State of Israel was proclaimed in 1948. Enough said.

a reply to: Tulpa

Even if Qutb wasn't executed, there's still the House of Saud and the Ayatollah Khomeini that will spread radical Islam.

a reply to: butcherguy

I think it's called pushback.
Had the U.S. not been installing puppets perhaps the extremists would of never gotten so far..their rallying cry was against the U.S. regime/meddling. Gave them a strong cause in their eyes.