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NY officials to scrap literacy test for teachers because "Blacks and Hispanics couldnt pass".

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posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: Phage




My first reaction to the article in the OP was, "What?" (And it still is, sort of). But I'm not sure being an effective teacher requires being an expert. It goes deeper than that. Without knowing what the competency standards actually are...


Exactly. How can you find out the competency standard if you don't take the test? I understand that there are great teachers that do their job very well. I can almost say with certainty that they would score some of the higher values. As far as being an expert, I don't think no one is expecting them to be, but highly skilled in their profession would be a more desirable trait.




posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: hangedman13
First of all as most of you are not from NY you really are out of your depth discussing this issue. NY has many problems with it's school system and with the teachers unions. Without knowing some of the other factors most of you are just spitting out your own prejudices or judging by where you live or your past experience's in the field. Not applicable boys & girls. Take it small and do some research into the problems of just NYC schools. Too much influence by the teachers union there and the city politicians cozy on up to them for $$$. They have scrapped many reforms because the union didn't like them. At least in NYC the complaint about unions being out to screw everyone over to benefit their unions is sadly true.Teacher evaluations, nope they are unfair. Removing teachers who had inappropriate relations with students, sit them in the "rubber rooms" until they get to go back. Don't ask me for links because if you are on this site you should be capable of doing the research yourself.


Which evaluation system? I know that many states/districts these days evaluate their teachers by tracking the performance of the students. They push students to show GPA improvements over the year which leads to lots of C's and D's early and A's and B's late (purely coincidental... I'm sure), or they track standardized tests over the years and actually penalize teachers who teach too well... it's a system where your fate is in the hands of other teachers rather than your own.

Both methods of evaluation are screwed up.



posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 10:40 PM
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a reply to: 3daysgone

Their profession is teaching? N'est–ce pas?



posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 10:44 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: 3daysgone

My first reaction to the article in the OP was, "What?" (And it still is, sort of).
But I'm not sure being an effective teacher requires being an expert. It goes deeper than that. Without knowing what the competency standards actually are...


I think it varies by the subject. You don't need a phD in Mathematics to teach first graders how to add. In grades 1-6 just being a generalist who understands kids minds seems to be best. Once you have specific teachers for specific subjects, knowing a bit more about that subject is probably better. Still not necessarily an expert, but I think teachers at that level should have either a bachelors in education+masters in subject or bachelors in subject+masters in education.

Like I said before though, if we want qualified teachers it needs to make financial sense for someone to choose to become a teacher. If you have to go $60k in debt for a bachelors or $100k after tacking on grad school just to earn $20k/year... even for the people who really love teaching, it just doesn't make sense for them to pursue it. So instead you get the people who have no other options... and then we get the current situation.



posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 11:09 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
What's wrong with common core math?


WTH is common core math? Common Core has practically nothing to do with "new math". I'm a numbery guy myself and I agree the way math is taught is awful. Once you figure out addition is all you can do with numbers everything makes perfect sense.



posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: 3daysgone

Their profession is teaching? N'est–ce pas?


Of course. In order to teach, one must know. In order to know, one must learn. To see if one knows enough to be a teacher, a test is in order. If a line is not drawn to determine the amount of knowledge one has, then how would you know if they are actually skilled enough to teach in the first place?



posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: 3daysgone




In order to teach, one must know. In order to know, one must learn.

So, only experts in a particular subject should be allowed to teach that subject.

There's an expression which goes back, well before this particular controversy; "Those that can, do. Those who cannot, teach."

Personal experience from being a hang gliding instructor, I learned a lot more about flight from teaching it than I knew before.

edit on 3/12/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 11:29 PM
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a reply to: Phage




So, only experts in a particular subject should be allowed to teach that subject.


As I said in another reply. No one is expecting them to be experts. Just highly skilled. After all. They are with our children.
N'est–ce pas?




Personal experience from being a hang gliding instructor, I learned a lot more about flight from teaching it than I knew before.


Experience is the key. In order to get the experience you have to put in the work.
edit on 12-3-2017 by 3daysgone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2017 @ 11:48 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
Why single out black and Hispanic teachers? I wonder if there are white teachers who cannot pass this test?


No. There is not.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: gladtobehere

illiterate teachers ? what can possibly go wrong



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:56 AM
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originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: gladtobehere

The education system has been lowering it's standards for years to accommodate an increasing lazy and apathetic generation. As a retired teacher this doesn't surprise me. We've lowered the bar and have made it easier for students to graduate or pass tests. I graduated from high school with a 2.9 GPA, and had to be on academic probation my first year in college because of my GPA.

Now there's open enrollment. If you have the ability to pay for college tuition, universities no longer put much emphasis on GPA's, if you have the money you're in! Do people really think a lot of these great high school athletes who get scholarships to colleges have outstanding GPA's???? In my own personal experience, the majority of these athletes had GPA's well below a 2.0. High school coaches would make the rounds to teachers asking them if they could raise their grades so their star athlete could be eligible to play in the next big game. It's a fact most high schools and universities don't hold student athletes accountable for their grades.

Instead of holding students accountable and failing them for not being responsible to educate themselves or prepare themselves for up coming tests, they make the tests easier or give them another chance to re-take the test. Heaven forbid if a High School or University shows statistics for an above average failure rate. The public would simply think teachers are not doing their job (or in reality, doing their job and not lowering the bar), OR the majority of the student body just doesn't care about taking their education seriously. It's all about statistics, federal and state funding based upon school performance and satisfying statistics for a particular demographics.

The most outstanding student I had in all my years of teaching, who was also our high school Valedictorian, was a Mexican immigrant. She was a model student, hard working, intelligent, respectful and well-behaved. To adjust testing because of a notion that a particular race is less intelligent is absurd and simply justifying legal racism.



Great insite. Thanks. Gonna ask my wife who has spent 20 some years on the public school system the same senarro. Betting she will echo most. Thanks!

Denny



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 01:14 AM
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TPTB dont want us educated. They want mindless drones who pay taxes and eat Mcdonalds and keep out mouths shut unless were talking about Kim K or Who Drake is with now.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 01:34 AM
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a reply to: gladtobehere

It looks like a two-fold problem (at least). Firstly, people should prepare for tests. The test looks to be college-level and not too hard so revision and prep should reduce first time failures.

Secondly, why are minority candidates failing at a much higher rate than white candidates? What issue in NY education (or elsewhere) is creating a disparity between the attainment levels of different groups? Is it zip codes? Poorer educations?



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:35 AM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Yes that sounds more like it. Of course it now turns into more fodder for certain backward people who conveniently ignore that the crisis in education.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:39 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

I appreciate your candour but you have no facts to back your assumptions. I am sure that 99% of parents want the best for their kids
so they do not have to struggle as hard as they did.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:48 AM
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originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: gladtobehere

The education system has been lowering it's standards for years to accommodate an increasing lazy and apathetic generation. As a retired teacher this doesn't surprise me. We've lowered the bar and have made it easier for students to graduate or pass tests. I graduated from high school with a 2.9 GPA, and had to be on academic probation my first year in college because of my GPA.

Now there's open enrollment. If you have the ability to pay for college tuition, universities no longer put much emphasis on GPA's, if you have the money you're in! Do people really think a lot of these great high school athletes who get scholarships to colleges have outstanding GPA's???? In my own personal experience, the majority of these athletes had GPA's well below a 2.0. High school coaches would make the rounds to teachers asking them if they could raise their grades so their star athlete could be eligible to play in the next big game. It's a fact most high schools and universities don't hold student athletes accountable for their grades.

Instead of holding students accountable and failing them for not being responsible to educate themselves or prepare themselves for up coming tests, they make the tests easier or give them another chance to re-take the test. Heaven forbid if a High School or University shows statistics for an above average failure rate. The public would simply think teachers are not doing their job (or in reality, doing their job and not lowering the bar), OR the majority of the student body just doesn't care about taking their education seriously. It's all about statistics, federal and state funding based upon school performance and satisfying statistics for a particular demographics.

The most outstanding student I had in all my years of teaching, who was also our high school Valedictorian, was a Mexican immigrant. She was a model student, hard working, intelligent, respectful and well-behaved. To adjust testing because of a notion that a particular race is less intelligent is absurd and simply justifying legal racism.



I think that yours was one of the best posts on this topic. I have seen a generally softening of education so as to not upset the child. Or to make the school experience gentler. The simple fact is failure sucks but living in a fluffy pink bubble leads to rude awakenings when reality impinges on policy. I am not an advocate of brutality but some toughness is necessary. Today's kids will be graduating into a very tough world. We are no longer in the warm 1950S. We must not betray our kids.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 03:17 AM
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originally posted by: drewlander
Seriously -- Anyone else other than me questioning how an illiterate person obtains a college degree in the first place? Teachers as far as im aware are supposed to be educated people.

I agree with scrapping the literacy test. Let's focus on ensuring they are educated before they receive the diploma!!!


Keep the test. The problem is how do you define education? Is it focusing on teaching the theory and practice of education or is it teaching to the test. There are a bazillion theories out there and there are also agendas. Teachers IMO should attempt to:

1) Inspire a lifelong love of lifelong learning.
2) Encourage children to use academia to follow their dreams. Sports athletes have a short life before they are over the hill so what do you do after?
3) Teach the subject you are paid to do.
4) Try to get the kids through their exams.

If the educationalists focus on objectives as opposed to the cut and thrust of academic debate then the educational attainment will rise.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 06:20 AM
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I have seen a generally softening of education so as to not upset the child.
a reply to: Tiger5

Exactly, that pretty much sums up education today. It's the same mentality when my kids played sports at a very young age. To make the kids feel good about themselves, they didn't keep score! This feel good attitude ignores the fact that in "real life" there's always winners and losers. These kids grew up thin skinned, and were never taught the idea of losing with dignity and working harder if they wanted to win in life.

Today, we're teaching kids in a way that have no basis in real life! Like giving a kid a second or third chance to pass a test, when they should have been responsible enough to prepare for it in the first place! We're teaching these kids that they'll always have a second chance in life. That's not always the case, and most of the time the result will be losing their job!

To be perfectly honest, when the paddle was taken out of our schools it completely hurt the educational environment. Classrooms are no longer conducive to learning and kids don't have feared consequences for bad and disruptive behavior. The behavior problems are way out of hand, and our school officials have never addressed the problem. Some kind of effective behavioral correction should have been implemented to replace corporal punishment. Today a kid can mouth-off to a teacher, tell them to go F themselves and the only recourse a teacher has is to send them to the office. The office just slaps them on the wrist and gives them a 1 hour after-school detention (which many students don't show-up) and than sends them back to class 10 minutes later! Nothing like giving the student the satisfaction of having control over their teacher and giving him a consequence that doesn't deter future disrespectful and disruptive behavior.

Some parents today our simply ridiculous. Instead of understanding why a teacher is pushing their child to get on task during the day, they believe their kid's excuse that "my teacher is picking on me." Hello, the reason why a teacher is always after your kid is because they're not on task and disrupting the rest of the class! Some parents just don't support teachers and don't teach their kids the simple idea of "respect." Kids today are so skewed, they demand respect but don't treat others with respect.

I've seen first hand the decline in the attitude of young people when it comes to responsibility, respect and consideration for their parents, those in authority and those less fortunate, the ability to take constructive criticism, the importance of educating themselves and doing their best and working hard to achieve what they want. I and the majority of other teachers I've worked with, have the same concerns for the future of this country.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 07:08 AM
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a reply to: WeRpeons


Some parents today our simply ridiculous. Instead of understanding why a teacher is pushing their child to get on task during the day, they believe their kid's excuse that "my teacher is picking on me." Hello, the reason why a teacher is always after your kid is because they're not on task and disrupting the rest of the class! Some parents just don't support teachers and don't teach their kids the simple idea of "respect." Kids today are so skewed, they demand respect but don't treat others with respect.


And sometimes, no matter what you do at home by way of discipline, the kid goes back to school and acts out.

Then the teacher refuses to believe that the problem is likely a little more complicated than simply "the parents don't discipline" and is likely a combination of things from boredom to learning issues to other things entirely.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 08:10 AM
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Here in Sierra Vista, AZ the school system hired a full time interpreter for an illegal they enrolled in school. This after saying they were so strapped for cash they dropped all athletic courses. That and the only school in this system where the teachers worked a full 8 hours a day at school was where a handi-capped student went.
The teacher unions are out of control.



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