NY officials to scrap literacy test for teachers because "Blacks and Hispanics couldnt pass".

a reply to: gladtobehere

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

This is the same line of thought that argues that expecting kids of certain ethnic groups to know the word "camel" is racist because their narrow experience doesn't encompass a camel.

You know what?

My day to day life experience growing up didn't encompass a camel, either, but I knew what it was because my parents cared enough to read to me as a little kid. That's basically all it takes and that's not a "race" thing; it's a parenting thing.

Im not disagreeing with you. Im just trying to explain the viewpoint of "adverse impact".

We need legal recourse for people treated in a bigoted manner in a way that restricts opportunity. But its a beast that has been liberalized. Im a supporter of the ACLU, but believe that they've gone overboard on this matter.

The entity in question here has to protect themselves legally. And I suspect that the individuals in executive positions would be personally liable as well for any civil penalties. You can't blame them for protecting themselves from litigation.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Oh, I get it. The problem is that they are making victims out of the intellectually incurious.

Today more than ever with our media saturated lives, we see the way all kinds of people live and we are exposed to all kinds of things that we might not have been just a few decades ago.

They began lowering the standards for teachers somewhere around 1970.

Some sheriff's departments did this as well, because they had to have racial quotas and their qualification tests were too difficult for minority applicants to pass. So, what did they do? They lowered the standards for reading comprehension and vocabulary. I know this for a fact.

originally posted by: Tiger5

originally posted by: gladtobehere

Test Meant to Screen Teachers Instead Weeded Out Minorities.

NEW YORK (AP) — New York education officials are poised to scrap a test designed to measure the reading and writing skills of people trying to become teachers, in part because an outsized percentage of black and Hispanic candidates were failing it.

This was an unintentional consequence.

The State was not trying to exclude minorities.

So now the State is going to lower standards or do away with the test altogether?

This is an example of political correctness with real world consequences.

Are people really going to allow illiterate or uneducated people to "teach" their children...?

Hell No. I have not seen the test but provided it does not have a huge cultural bias then let those cannot pass the test then let them find alternative work. However an intelligent reading of the OP does indicate (to me at least) that not all minorities fail this test. I would love to see some of our ATSers sitting that test (lol).

Do not lower our already low standards!

After reading op-eds and other material, the problem appears to be that there is a lack of standardization in what the colleges are using to prepare teachers for teaching.... and that smaller and local colleges are not "teaching to this test."

And this brings up the problem of assessment and policy - do you teach teachers-to-be to pass the test or do you find some other measure of finding out how good they are? If we teach teachers just to pass that test (and there are disciplines like Library Science where there is a test that you must pass to become certified), then that will have to be carved out of the other courses that teachers-to-be take... such as classroom management and courses in the subjects they will be teaching.

In teaching other teachers (particularly elementary school teachers), it appears that much of the content has been diverted into "teaching them about the subject of education." I notice gaps in the understanding of some science teachers (although my memory of the quality of science teachers from my own childhood is very poor) and I think they would be better served by less emphasis on education theory and more on individual subjects and how to teach those.

I think they need to scrap the tests and instead focus on auditing the university and college courses to bring them up to snuff.


(disclaimer: I do have a (very old) valid teaching certificate for secondary education. Haven't taught in public schools in a gazillion years, but I do have the certification.)

Seriously -- Anyone else other than me questioning how an illiterate person obtains a college degree in the first place? Teachers as far as im aware are supposed to be educated people.

I agree with scrapping the literacy test. Let's focus on ensuring they are educated before they receive the diploma!!!

Which will then lead to their students lacking literacy.

I don't see a problem there.

Go watch the movie Idiocracy, this is where we are heading with this kind of thinking.

Pretty soon all you going to need for a college degree is a pencil and the ability to spell your name, and even if you fail that there's a chance you'll be given a sly pass anyway to keep the pass results up.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: the2ofusr1

You mean that the people getting a degree can't pass the Dept of Ed's?

Something is a miss, lowering the bar is a liberal way out of hard work.

BS. It's not a liberal/conservative issue. Just look at how many conservatives want to lower the bar and hire people that don't have college educations.

That said, it doesn't seem like this test is racist. It seems more like the schools (especially the colleges) aren't pulling their weight.

I wonder if the failed students are from specific colleges. I know that a lot of colleges, depending on their funding situation are simply forced to pass people to keep the doors open... degree mills, and to hell with learning anything.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah, where are the ones insulting the home-school parents?

What makes you think the system for certifying home school parents is any less corrupt?

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: seasonal

Better use of already appropriated funds, a return to traditional teaching using actual math english civics history and geography etc...

Rather than wasting childrens time and minds using common core methods...particularly mathematics

What's wrong with common core math? Take it from a pretty mathy person. It's precisely what we should be teaching, if only the teachers could catch on... that seems to be the single biggest flaw. The mathematicians all love it, but the teachers who have to regurgitate it aren't doing it well.

Wouldn't the degree to be a teacher be much harder to get than a passing grade on this test, and doing away with the test isn't going to help anyone. And it will turn into a race thing, which it is not.
They should have left the demographic information out and then decided what to do. ...that would have kept it fair and given no reason to play the race card. ...

Looks like the "Teacher/Student" relationship rubbed off the wrong way somewhere along the line.

a reply to: drewlander

I agree with scrapping the literacy test. Let's focus on ensuring they are educated before they receive the diploma!!!

I agree. The schools here in Florida are all about getting the children to pass the FCAT. One test, that determines how much funding the school will receive.

It doesn't matter that the child doesn't learn anything else, as long as they can pass that one test. The only thing I see happening if they continue with making another test a priority, is that you will have a bunch of teachers that can pass a single test, which is no real indication of their intelligence.

Liberal Logic 101: Don't give them a hand-up, give them a hand-out.

The Democrats benefit more from minorities being dependent victims rather than educated, independent citizens. Detroit and Chicago are prime examples, both cities have been under Democrat control for over 50 years and have practically become a dystopia... yet people keep voting them in.

It's almost like a political form of Stockholm Syndrome.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah, where are the ones insulting the home-school parents?

What makes you think the system for certifying home school parents is any less corrupt?

Certify?

Don't know what state you're in but if you have a college degree, you can home school.

I can positively tell you that the education my son is getting is far superior than the dross being served at public schools.

The OP's article only illustrates it.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The point is, how do you know te degree/training for the average home schooler is better than that for a teacher? They both involve college and tests which may not necessarily be accurate.

a reply to: Aazadan

That's where parental rights reign.

The education system is horrible at defining standards.

The math, science sores ranked show it.

We've allowed a corrupt system to educate our children and they have done an absolutely miserable job.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: gladtobehere

Perhaps that is why Trump want to scrap this joke of a department?

Hey, teachers! Leave those kids alone!

originally posted by: Konduit

Liberal Logic 101: Don't give them a hand-up, give them a hand-out.

The Democrats benefit more from minorities being dependent victims rather than educated, independent citizens. Detroit and Chicago are prime examples, both cities have been under Democrat control for over 50 years and have practically become a dystopia... yet people keep voting them in.

It's almost like a political form of Stockholm Syndrome.

Your president has been handed everything on a silver platter, why should the people not be afforded the same treatment.

If one thing is for certain, just because you have an education, it does not mean you are intelligent or competent, just look at all the politicians in office right now. Trump is a prime example, college educated but dumb as a box of rocks who speaks like a sixth grader.

You guys complained about the last president using a teleprompter, well that fool needs one at all times.

It is time for a change in education, the curriculum has barely changed throughout the years. The education system was based on only teaching whites but times are changing and western countries have become more diverse, so the education system should reflect this change.