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NY officials to scrap literacy test for teachers because "Blacks and Hispanics couldnt pass".

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posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: Byrd
This is one of the huge factors that affects our schools.

There is a current distrust of the value of "higher education" (as you can see, anecdotally, all over this board and Facebook and a lot of other places.) In part this is due to the high cost of student loans, but it's also due to the idolization of people who seem to have gotten fame and fortune with little of the struggle one goes through to get a college education (or more.)

Our heroes (as shown in the media) are not highly educated people (I was watching a pre-recorded episode of the highly improbable "McGuyver" last night and noted that Ye Hero didn't complete any education beyond possibly high school but is presented as the marvelous genius who can do anything.) And let us also count all the "hackers" who were "hired by those multi-letter agencies right out of high school or without finishing college." If we are in dire need of a workforce with little literacy and a lot of manual skills (which is a bad life strategy, I should add, since age-related changes such as arthritis can make it very difficult to do manual work at a time (midlife) when you need more income (kids, parents needing help)) then these are the kinds of heroes we need to show... along with musicians and athletes.

We could, I suppose, entertain the option of allowing people to drop out of school and enter trade school during the 10th grade (I have a vague memory that this was done in other countries.) This allowed resources to be better focused on the ones who were going to try for college and to better serve those who wanted to "earn money now" and enter the skilled labor force.


*sigh* Apparently my backspace key is being really touchy today. I wrote this post twice only for it to go back in my browser each time and lose the post. I don't want to retype everything again so I'm going to be really brief, even though I wanted to write a lot on this.

I think the dislike of education these days comes down to 5 reasons, in no particular order:
1. It's cool to be dumb. People like jocks more than nerds.
2. Lots on the right idolize or at least relate to poorly educated celebrities. Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck are HS dropouts. Mark Steyn brags about not even finishing high school.
3. People want to work. This one is pretty self explanatory. Income=freedom, therefore work=freedom while student loans are debt and slavery.
4. Any good education challenges your predefined opinions. We've entered a place culturally where people don't want their ideas challenged, they want reinforcement that their ideas are correct. Any halfway decent college course will make you question some idea you previously held to be true.
5. Narrow focus on utilitarian job training. This is the one that bothers me the most because I believe we should push everyone in society to be a polymath. But many people in life just want to learn the very basics to get by and do their job. Our culture didn't used to be like this, but in recent decades it has shifted in that direction... people just want to learn how to be a specific cog in an assembly line.




posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I think standardization is the first mistake. Humans are individual, not standard. You cannot test individuals in a standard manner. How individualized testing would look in this case, i can't tell you. But I suspect it has very little to do with filling in bubbles on paper.

This poem does a good job of explaining exactly what you posted.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I know exactly what you are talking about. I remember the story as well. Stories like that make me double down on my assertion that lowering standards for teachers is not what we should be doing.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 07:21 PM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I didn't watch that full video, got about 2 minutes into it. Disagreed with just about every single word, and gave up because I would rather comment on it.

Just from the parts of the video I did watch:

In my opinion, if you tell a fish to climb a tree (or if they just want to) and they can't do it you've failed as an educator. Yes, the fish needs to know more than a monkey in order to climb a tree but with the proper knowledge and effort it can be done.

Then there's the line about being creative, independent thinkers. I think that's pretty much the most tripe, BS, filler line on the education "debate" that one can throw in there. I thought that was something we've been saying for 50 years so I reserached it. It's a claim people have been making for hundreds of years. Voltaire said much the same words, and before him some Greek philosphers did as well. The truth is, those are great traits to have and education can teach people to have them but few want to put in the effort. As I've said many times in the past, I'm a huge proponent of pushing more polymaths in society. When you can approach a problem from multiple different professions, which gives you multiple viewpoints, you can actually create an interesting, new, and unique solution that is often times better than what we already have. Doing that though, means convincing people to stay in school and obtain the skills to not just do one job, but to do many. It's a very tall order for a culture that barely even recognizes the need to have one talent.

Last, comes the picture of kids in a school now and 150 years ago. 150 years ago we mixed grades/studies, we didn't specialize, we had shorter days, and what we taught was much different. Yes, it looks different if you take a snapshot of the two, but that's because education is a mental exercise, you don't see the changes in what is going through those students heads or what they were discussing. The other products used for comparison were physical objects.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

I didn't watch that full video, got about 2 minutes into it. Disagreed with just about every single word, and gave up because I would rather comment on it.

I don't have to agree with everything someone has to say, but I won't know that unless I listen.

I learn more sometimes from people that have different ideas and opinions from me than I do from those that have opinions that line up with mine. That is one of the things I like most about ATS. I am always in learning mode because I have tons of people that disagree with me.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

True, I'm just not a fan of video as a communication method. If I read something I can take it at my own pace. With a video it's fixed. I did make an honest attempt at watching it and I got through the first half. I simply disagreed with every point made.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

The primary reason folks who have demonstrated success ect, ect and have very basic education ect, ect point it out is because of general educated snootiness.

Lots and lots of folks demonstrate and have demonstrated intelligence. Its different form an education although some credit used to be given the self educated.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: TarzanBeta
Next up - scrapping literacy tests for students.


Next up - scrapping literacy requirement for students


edit on 13-3-2017 by DupontDeux because: ironic display of illiteracy



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 08:27 PM
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originally posted by: Logarock
although some credit used to be given the self educated.



This bothers me greatly.

Im self educated and self made, from a family of people who are the same. I excel at just about anything I do, but still have to take a hit in pay to get a chance. Which, in the long run, sets me back the entire tenure as increases are % of pay type deals.

When I didn't have an opportunity, I made one. I know many people like that (some who inspired me), and wish there was a way to break the monopoly that higher education has on profesional esteem.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: gladtobehere

i am sorry but if you can't read how the hell can you with a straight face apply to be a teacher? teachers have to do paperwork. you crying because you lost out because you can't read then go back to school and learn. also i feel like the schools should be partially held responsible if you make it all the way to apply for a teaching position then somewhere the school system grossly failed in your education.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 09:32 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan


Lots on the right idolize or at least relate to poorly educated celebrities. Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck are HS dropouts. Mark Steyn brags about not even finishing high school.


I love how you guys always pick on these specific voices to self-affirm your bias that everyone who believes in right-leaning ideals must be dumb, uneducated hicks.

Why don't you ever pick on the likes of Thomas Sowell or Victor Davis Hanson? Maybe you could go after blogsters like Steven Hayward or John Hinderaker, but then you'd be picking on the very well educated whose opinions still fall into line with the so-called ignoramuses you mention above.

I think instead what you abhor is their ideology and the beliefs it has led them to more than any perceived education level. I guess you believe that anyone who has been properly educated/indoctrinated at all the right places couldn't possibly come out the other end with a right-leaning worldview.

However, it also never escapes me that you also never mention people like Jobs, Gates or Zuckerberg who lean left and famously left their own university careers so far behind them. I guess you don't mind them because their own ideology is evidence enough for you of their perfectly educated brilliance college degree aside?



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:57 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yes yours is a great point. Most f our problems come from the very top. Governments hold up the numbers of graduates produced by their universities as virtue. However, what we get is a league table. Then comes the competition. If Country X has 5% Batchelor's degrees and country Y has 10% first degrees, then country Y is deemed to be better than country X. The politicos in country X then get into RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION and start grandstanding about driving up educational achievement if they vote for me. As an aside heaven forfend that that country Y is white and X is darker skinned and the bigots have a party (the fact that they have no degree and lack the intellect to get it is beside the point).
What is so wrong with the model is that no one examines whether everyone should have a degree. Bigger is not always better but better is always better. Of course the universities are businesses and will welcome the opportunity to do more business because degrees become a commodity. Of course the Politicos can trumpet education to build credibility. Then there is the cottage industry of setting up bogus “universities” to give out fake qualifications for idiots. Of course some politicians will seek to lie about their modest levels of educational achievement.
Education should develop our innate curiosity about the world. It should build on our skills and interests. It should also make us fit for work. We do not need degrees to work in Walmart’s tills.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 03:25 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan

The other thing to consider is that Google may be considering the business benefits of academic diversity to avoid Groupthink. Academic excellence does not automatically equate to business excellence or even a distinguished career.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 03:28 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

If the left sinks the bar any lower, we will be electing sea cucumbers President next.



Perhaps as we already have a six-times bankrupt D++khead as POTUS now!



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 05:17 AM
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I watched the 'fish climbing tree's video' and while it seems a thoughtful attempt at a better taught world its flawed as hell. You simply cannot modify teaching practices to almost individual cases due to a. cost and b. class sizes. Also the video quite happily fails to include the issue of the problem of kids choosing to stay away from school and enter crime, no amount of good schooling will make up for the lure of big bucks and the ability to be a lazy useless member of society.

The man also mentions the Khan Academy which at the time of this video may have been not under scrutiny but now we know it was a hot bed of pretty radical Islamic stuff. The point being, if they are spending time teaching third world violent practices then they are NOT spending time teaching up to date learning methods.

But to get back to the main point, how in hell can the dropping of standard ever lead to a better future, who do you want to teach your kids, the teacher with the better IQ, known teaching skills and both literate and skilled in numeracy or the person who could not even pass the basic teacher tests and was given a 'by'.

I as an old man (55) have watched the youth and therefore the generations become less and less educated and what worries is that its the parents who have kids now that simply don't seem to care if their children are educated. Here where I live on a council estate, when we moved here my daughter was in the local school and we as parents always subconsciously taught our daughter, by that I mean if she wanted to know an answer to a question we would not just give it to her, we explained the answer but in a fun way. I'm proud to say she excelled in school only for anorexia to blight her teaching but she's still an incredibly bright girl, partly because we cared as parents and the fact she was always given support when she had problems. Now one of the parents here said to us "why do you bother, she's from an estate, she will never be anything" and we were shocked....That's the mentality these days..

Dumbing down the tests won't help in any way...
edit on 14-3-2017 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: Mclaneinc

Parent involvement is very important. There are studies done that show that just simply reading to your child is an indicator educational success. Of course, there are also studies showing that there is a cultural component to the importance different cultures place on reading to the young. Some groups from poor to even affluent just don't read much to their kids while others from poor to affluent place far more emphasis on it. Unsurprisingly, the cultures that tend to read more to their children also have kids who tend to do better educationally.

Of course, once that inconvenient fact was uncovered, instead of thinking about ways to make reading more important to those cultures, the suggestion was made that parents should not be allowed to read to their children at all so that things would be "fair."



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko



You are correct.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:32 AM
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completely agree with the previous speaker. Society should pay more attention to this problem, imho.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: Tiger5

Just getting into a class to feed your curiosity without a desire for a degree program is impossible.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:12 AM
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Who need educated teachers for a future of uneducated leaders

Life is wonderful, nothing to see here.




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