It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NY officials to scrap literacy test for teachers because "Blacks and Hispanics couldnt pass".

page: 11
69
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:37 PM
link   
a reply to: Byrd

The whole distrust of education issue is a big one. I don't have time right now to add more onto this post, perhaps I will later. It's something we're going to have to solve though and I don't really know how to do it. There's no glory in being an educated middle class or upper middle class worker. There's glory in being Zuckerburg or a Kardashian.




posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:38 PM
link   
a reply to: diggindirt

You didn't mention common core specifically, but that's exactly what it is. It was the states telling the feds to butt out, that they can create their own standards, and then doing so. The great irony is that many of the people in those states who distrust education are now trying to get the feds to eliminate those standards.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
Bill Gates did his most innovative work before he finished his degree. It took him over 30 years to get around to that.

Higher education is not a marker for or against success or intellect either one.


Bill Gates's biggest accomplishment in life is chair jumping.

Anyways, he's definitely a rarity, and his success was more a result of making good business moves involving licensing than anything having to do with a quality innovative product (he's a lot like Trump in that regard). Most of the true geniuses in life are guys like Woz who get to a good place in a company, but ultimately work for the business types. They wind up being unseen professionals and engineers in the background while the lesser skilled charismatic people become the face of a company.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:48 PM
link   
What a sad time we live in.

In present day US, we cater to and reward the lowest common denominators in every single segment of life.

edit on 13-3-2017 by DrStevenBrule because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Aazadan

Like I said before though, if we want qualified teachers it needs to make financial sense for someone to choose to become a teacher. If you have to go $60k in debt for a bachelors or $100k after tacking on grad school just to earn $20k/year... even for the people who really love teaching, it just doesn't make sense for them to pursue it. So instead you get the people who have no other options... and then we get the current situation.


I may be wrong on this but it seems that many professions are following this same mistake.

Most requirements are not being made to find the best employee, but to narrow the numbers when there are more applicants than available positions.

They make the requirements so restrictive that you end up with those that are either unable to find a better position and take the position out of desperation, or those that find a way to skirt or beat the system. Either way, you don't necessarily end up with the best person for the job.

I have worked with nursing assistants and medical technicians that I would trust with my life, I have worked with medical professionals that have enough initials behind their name to fill a phone book, that I wouldn't let come near me.

Everyone that is good at taking a test isn't always very good at actually doing the job.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:49 PM
link   
They are still peddling the bs that non whites are intellectually inferior, shockingly...
When there has never been more successful blacks and latinos in almost every sector today...
Yawn..



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Byrd

Bill Gates did his most innovative work before he finished his degree. It took him over 30 years to get around to that.

Higher education is not a marker for or against success or intellect either one.


Not all of us are Bill Gates. While it's not a marker for or against success, on the average you will have more opportunities for jobs that pay a better salary and aren't as vulnerable to health issues. A machinist who loses a couple of fingers is going to have trouble. A computer programmer, not so much. Ditto coronary problems, emphysema, and a lot of other health conditions. Jobs that require less education in general pay much less (a PhD geochemist (I know two) earns the same amount in one month of work as a nursing assistant (I've been one, way back in the Dark Ages) earns in an entire year.)

And education and salary impacts your kids and your future.

For women, the salary difference is pretty significant. Although men do get hired into managerial positions with very little higher education, it is very unusual for a woman to have this kind of opportunity. A good education can make a woman employable at something beyond Wal-Mart greeter once she hits age 50 (or 45, even.)

And then there's the issue of social power. If you have a title of "Doctor" or "Reverend" you are able to speak more powerfully when a group needs a voice in public issues. They don't listen when Mr. King shows up to talk about homeless issues...but they do when Reverend King steps up to the podium.

I'm not advocating it for everyone. But I am saying that in the haste to dismiss education, people often overlook the more subtle factors.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 01:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: Byrd
There is a current distrust of the value of "higher education" (as you can see, anecdotally, all over this board and Facebook and a lot of other places.)

Actually the distrust runs a lot deeper than just this thread or on Facebook.

In part this is due to the high cost of student loans, but it's also due to the idolization of people who seem to have gotten fame and fortune with little of the struggle one goes through to get a college education (or more.)

Again it's actually due to these so called "higher educated" individuals displaying very little common sense in real life. Thinking a piece of paper somehow makes them smarter and more accomplished than others. Sure there is a bell curve here but the majority of "higher educated" people I have met in my 20+ years of working with people from every walk of life has taught a few things.
Mainly education does not equate to intelligence or IQ.
You CAN'T actually make or teach someone to be smarter.
But you can train a monkey to push the right series of buttons to pilot a capsule in orbit...
If you catch my drift.

Our heroes (as shown in the media) are not highly educated people (I was watching a pre-recorded episode of the highly improbable "McGuyver" last night and noted that Ye Hero didn't complete any education beyond possibly high school but is presented as the marvelous genius who can do anything.)

Again you are trying to equate education with intelligence. Even worse you just implied that someone with a high school education is unfit to be a role model or hero. These is nothing to say there is a correlation here. In fact real life shows us quite the opposite.
Heroes and role models are forged in the furnace of life.
Not sculpted in some class room by an ivory tower dweller.
Our boy McGuyver is an homage to good old fashioned creative thinking, ingenuity, and street smarts.
Granted all of his gadgets in the show are laughable at best.
But I can still see how he almost offends you...

I see people with a simple high school education and good work ethics out perform collage graduates almost daily. With higher cognitive abilities and more pride in their work. Not only that but the collage grads have this weird sense of entitlement imparted on them... They have yet to offer anything substantial to their community or society but expect some sort of reward for simply existing. These people are a waste of O2 if you ask me...
edit on 13-3-2017 by JAY1980 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 01:12 PM
link   
a reply to: odzeandennz
According to Dr. Phil, people engage in deceptions to:
1. Take what is not rightfully theirs.
2. Escape accountability.
3. Create a fantasy/false self-esteem to escape their mundane life.
4. Avoid punishment.
5. Inflict pain.
6. Feel better in the moment; “steal” admiration.
7. Gain an advantage to exploit others.

I agree with most of these.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: JAY1980
I see people with a simple high school education and good work ethics out perform collage graduates almost daily. With higher cognitive abilities and more pride in their work. Not only that but the collage grads have this weird sense of entitlement imparted on them... They have yet to offer anything substantial to their community or society but expect some sort of reward for simply existing. These people are a waste of O2 if you ask me...


Your position and acquaintances may bias you.

I have the opposite experience with a bunch of great ol' guys who do the minimum and don't think for themselves versus some very hardworking college educated people--including teachers, who are taking work home and taking on things like finding help for students kicked out of their homes or students whose families are poor.

So whose view is right?

I believe the truth lies in the middle of both these statements.

Some people have good work ethics and can be trusted implicitly and bring a lot to the community. Some have bad work ethics and can't be trusted and don't do much for the community. Some are ill or addicted and simply can't perform well, even when working their hardest. And I believe that sometimes we don't understand the other person's job and are not qualified to assess whether they're a shining star or a waste of oxygen.

Your mileage may vary.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:21 PM
link   
a reply to: diggindirt

I think this thread will go along with another thread I read. The other thread was about a group trying to make it legal to vote if your 17 years old.
edit on 13-3-2017 by 3daysgone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Tiger5

OK but there are prominent and educated black liberals so that cannot be the full story! Something else is going on perhaps and your reasoning may be wrong.

What is going on is, that they hired a group of minorities that were at the bottom of their class, then when they don't do well on a standard test, they want to sell it off as minorities are incompetent as a whole.

They skirt over the fact that they deliberately hired people that had fared poorly on the testing to start out with, so they can now paint a picture of incompetence in the ability to learn among minorities.

The minorities that did well on the standard test more than likely had other goals, that did not include teaching.


What? The white people that did well on the standard test are just as likely as those minorities who tested well to have other goals. Makes zero sense.

Unless you are admitting

This is an affirmative action issue in universities and jobs, where it is well known east asians, and whites are turned down in favor of brown people' in order to fill the diversity quota regardless of actual scores and achievements.

This means as I believe you are stating, blacks and hispanics who do have education are extremely overvalued by hiring policies in order to fill diversity quotas, meaning that *brown minorities are very frequently over placed relatives to their actual skills and aptitude, meaning they are often put into positions where they will fail.

Thomas Sowell has done some good stuff on this, where blacks are sent to harvard and fail instead of going to state university.


*Note to PC snowflakes, I use the word "brown" as a shorthand for a large group of minorities who do not do as well as the white baseline. no supremacy connotation. Do not start an argument on that.




posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: JAY1980

Mainly education does not equate to intelligence or IQ.
You CAN'T actually make or teach someone to be smarter.


Correct. education does not move the IQ needle discernibly..

But education does move the knowledge vs. ignorance needle significantly.

Give the best carpenter in the world a rock and some nails and an average carpenter every modern tool you can find and one is going to get a lot more done.

Personally I think the far right's antagonism toward education is a result of corporate interests infecting conservatism.

A less educated workforce is a cheaper workforce. Education is an equalizer. Give everybody the same opportunity to gather a tool-box and let them compete in the world from there.

Either way...When the time comes to hire, people will hire people with higher education first..



That said research shows a degree only impacts job performance for the first 3 years...

Otherwise...
Hiring an entry level Software Engineer, 4 year degree vs. Non-degreed. (both have sufficient skills)
Years 1-3 at the company, the person with the degree will outperform the Non-degreed individual.
Years 4-10 there would be no discernible difference in performance between degreed and non-degreed.
That says nothing about pay-track and promotions though, which are still degree biased.


edit on 13-3-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: RedDragon
It makes sense. Literacy tests have a long history of being used by racists in things such as preventing blacks from voting. No need to carry out that racist past time in the 21st century.

Test scores, grades, etc. are also things that we need to excuse black people from in the 21st century. Black people are sub-human and can't be treated like normal people.

--- The thought process of Democratic policy makers, who somehow get 92% of the black vote.

This post wasn't serious; I'm not a racist. It's a sarcastic but dry humor expose of the reality of how liberals think about black people and other minorities. They think that black people are subhuman and that they themselves are the black peoples' white knights in shining armor that black people can't succeed without.

They think your'e too stupid get an ID to vote. They think you're too stupid to take literacy tests to be a teacher. They think you're too stupid to get into college on your own. They think you're too stupid to be judged by your grades. They think you're too stupid to be judged by test scores. They think you're too lazy to be judged by your own work. So, they must help you elevate yourself from beast to man-beast.

If you accept that interpretation of yourself, and have that kind of self-respect, nothing will change for African Americans, ever. There's no such thing as a free lunch; these programs might get African Americans ahead in the short term but they will prevent you from addressing the real causes of your problems, and, in doing so, retard and limit your ultimate potential of achieving real equality and real equity.


It's as they call it, the "bigotry of low expectations."

I'm a liberal, but i've come to despise how many people, possibly THINKING they are being anti-racist, treat minority individuals like they are children. This manifests in a variety of ways, from smiling and laughing at anything they say good or bad, to also getting angry if a different individual treats minorities as equals, both applauding when appropriate and also holding minority individuals accountable when they are out of line.

Real respect means holding people accountable, and not forcing through individuals who don't meet professional standards. There ARE other people of color who do pass these tests.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: JAY1980

Mainly education does not equate to intelligence or IQ.
You CAN'T actually make or teach someone to be smarter.


Correct. education does not move the IQ needle discernibly..

But education does move the knowledge vs. ignorance needle significantly.

Give the best carpenter in the world a rock and some nails and an average carpenter every modern tool you can find and one is going to get a lot more done.

Personally I think the far right's antagonism toward education is a result of corporate interests infecting conservatism.

A less educated workforce is a cheaper workforce. Education is an equalizer. Give everybody the same opportunity to gather a tool-box and let them compete in the world from there.

Either way...When the time comes to hire, people will hire people with higher education first..



That said research shows a degree only impacts job performance for the first 3 years...

Otherwise...Lets say marketing.
Hiring an entry level Software Engineer, 4 year degree vs. Non-degreed. (both have sufficient skills)
Years 1-3 at the company, the person with the degree will outperform the Non-degreed individual.
Years 4-10 there would be no discernible difference in performance between degreed and non-degreed.
That says nothing about pay-track and promotions though, which are still degree biased.



I think that you are correct for most fields.

However, this is not true for high level executive, managerial, nor let's say policy spheres.

For example, if someone is to make high level programming or policy decisions for anywhere from city-level up to international organizations, they absolutely need to be well educated on a whole list of different subjects.

These aren't always skills nor wide-ranging knowledge that you can get from just working in some office or let's say laying plumbing. You have to know history, economics, often high level data analysis, etc etc.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:42 PM
link   
a reply to: Mictain

Cn we handle the Truth? I gave you a star so I am just asking not arguing.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: gladtobehere

And you'll still find people lauding our public school system.



The public school system is in shambles in part due to very well researched problems with funding, lack of support for educators and schools, and the multivariate consequences of poverty. It's not BECAUSE it's public school.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 02:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Mictain

Totally right.

2+2=4 unless you are black and then it might equal 5 because it would be racist to suggest otherwise, but if you are Latino it might be 3 on Tuesday and 8 on every other Wednesday. Asians always insist it's 4 because they're odd that way, and whites mostly say it's 4 which is racist.

Of course, a lot of Christians think it might be 4 too, so the gays are thinking it might be bigoted to call the answer 4. It might be binumeraled or homonumeraled in which case 2+2 just might equal 2. And the transgendered want 2+2 to equal either 2 or 4 depending on which answer the equation thinks it might be.

And as a teacher, you should never, ever judge because we need to be inclusive of all answers. Therefore 2+2 is whatever answer little Johnny comes up with as long as he (or she because who am I to judge) show how the answer was derived.

And it does seem to me that this is how common core math is sometimes graded.


I take it you have clear scientific or even statistical proof to back such absurd assumptions. I know several hundred black. Financia engineers/Scientists and accountants. Sorry to pop your narrative!



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 03:04 PM
link   
a reply to: jellyrev

This means as I believe you are stating, blacks and hispanics who do have education are extremely overvalued by hiring policies in order to fill diversity quotas, meaning that *brown minorities are very frequently over placed relatives to their actual skills and aptitude, meaning they are often put into positions where they will fail.

I stated none of that.

What I stated was that they said;

A December 2016 study by the National Council on Teacher Quality found that 44 percent of the teacher preparation programs it surveyed accepted students from the bottom half of their high school classes.


Why? Because they were the ones that could not get better jobs with better pay?

I said nothing about quotas or affirmative action. I said nothing about PC or snowflakes.

I don't know how you got any of that out of what I wrote.

edit on 13-3-2017 by NightSkyeB4Dawn because: Bad format.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 03:23 PM
link   
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Mostly agree...

You might find this interesting as Google is all about the data..

Google Has Started Hiring More People Who Didn't Go To College
www.businessinsider.com...

Very few companies think like Google...so getting a degree is still a very good idea for economic reasons.



new topics

top topics



 
69
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in

join