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NY officials to scrap literacy test for teachers because "Blacks and Hispanics couldnt pass".

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posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: Wildbob77
They are both very successful today.


You know why? Involved parents who care.

You can't teach something into a student. You need motivation to learn. Some kids come by it naturally. A great teacher can help with that.

Not only are way too many schools filled with students who have no desire to learn, they're comprised of disrupting students who even though they're usually in the minority, rule the situation. The best teacher in the world can't teach anything in an environment hostile to learning. And don't kid yourselves, there are schools where students are afraid to perform well for fear of peer reprisal.

The more federal government influences education, the worse it gets. At this point, schools are too often places for teachers to get jobs (and vote the union line) than to actually be a place primarily focused on the student.

The problems are enormous, and enormously complex. I have no formula for turning it around, but I know what doesn't work.

What we've been doing.




posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Bell Curve scoring models are as heinous and counterproductive to learning as anything I encountered in school.

Im a naturally curious person with an aptitude for learning new things, especially things that work within a system. It really speaks volumes that I was turned off from school and education while at the same time still reading an average of 150 pages of text a day.

I've always wished I could have found a home for my education. But i've also always loved the complete lack of limitations on what I can explore by taking it upon myself. The going was much slower. Im 45 now and just barely getting a grasp on creating consistently logical thoughts.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: yeahright

"No child left behind"

My oldest son is taking a break from his masters studies to teach at the local high school. It got him his certification, and masters studies are expensive.

His task: he is the teacher for the behavior program. Basically, kids that should not still be allowed in school but that the law says have to be kept in school.

He wasn't the most equipped to do that job, but he's done well. But hearing his daily tribulations has taught me a few things that are rather eye opening:

- teachers can be the most petty and vindictive people. the average is worse than what I'd expect, and the worst is apalling.
- our schools are legally obligated to divert resources to helping kids who may not ever get it. I don't think we should forsake anyone...but to divert resources from the stars so you can prop up the flunkies....just seems counter productive.
- our schools are funded based on bodies in seats. Meaning, if you figure out how to keep students failing on site rather than dropping out or being expelled, you get more $$$.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: yeahright

Our community has tons of involved parents who care... That's so important.

It is a volunteer driven community that had tons of opportunities outside of school for kids to expand there horizons.

That is what you need to find when you're going to have kids.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: RedDragon

IMO If you have to add a disclaimer below your post explaining how it was meant then you shouldn't have posted it.

To the OP, this is scary but it's not really surprising, is it?



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We used to separate those kinds of kids. There were things called "reform schools". Just the suggestion that you might be sent to RS made some of those behavioral problems vanish.

I guess they did away with those out of political correctness. Now, students that are in class to actually learn have to sit quietly during most of the class while the teacher deals with behavioral issues of certain students.

I try not to paint with a broad brush, but many teachers were schooled themselves under these "experimental" politically correct programs and are now schooling another batch under similar or worse programs.

If it weren't for good parenting, things would really go to hell in a hand basket.

Time for some innovative thinking regarding education. Betsy DeVos, get going!! We can't afford to lose another generation to stupidity under the guise of "progressive".



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: ketsuko

Language does evolve though. Spellings, sentence structure, grammar, and the words we use all change over time and they also change regionally.

At the end of the day, language is about communicating ideas. If you're able to do that effectively then what's the problem? If you're not, then there's a disconnect. That disconnect exists now in many urban areas can't communicate effectively with others. It's due to socioeconomic reasons rather than race (though it does predominantely affect blacks), but it's very real.


Language does not evolve because little Timmy refuses to learn subject/verb agreement and demands that his "new grammar' be recognized as a legitimate form of English.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:06 PM
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Excuses for failure just keeps the failure going....and going...and going...and going.


edit on 13-3-2017 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

That's precisely how it evolves. People start writing and speaking however they want, and some of it catches on. We slow it down a bit by teaching a standardized langauge but things still change. I'm not saying don't teach a consistent way of doing things, that at least establishes a baseline. I'm saying that you ultimately have no control over how people will choose to communicate in the future. Text messaging is a good example, it has fundamentally changed how people write.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


- our schools are funded based on bodies in seats. Meaning, if you figure out how to keep students failing on site rather than dropping out or being expelled, you get more $$$.


This last also explains the real reason behind the opposition to allowing parents some choice too.

Right now, all they need to do is have you in the district. If you had choice, they'd have to satisfy you too.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Not formally.

Too many kids get out of school not understanding that you don't use text speak in the real world. It's a situational thing.

It would be like you saying that shorthand was going to be the future of English because so many secretaries learned how to write it.
edit on 13-3-2017 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: yeahright

originally posted by: Wildbob77
They are both very successful today.


You know why? Involved parents who care.

You can't teach something into a student. You need motivation to learn. Some kids come by it naturally. A great teacher can help with that.

Not only are way too many schools filled with students who have no desire to learn....


This is one of the huge factors that affects our schools.

There is a current distrust of the value of "higher education" (as you can see, anecdotally, all over this board and Facebook and a lot of other places.) In part this is due to the high cost of student loans, but it's also due to the idolization of people who seem to have gotten fame and fortune with little of the struggle one goes through to get a college education (or more.)

Our heroes (as shown in the media) are not highly educated people (I was watching a pre-recorded episode of the highly improbable "McGuyver" last night and noted that Ye Hero didn't complete any education beyond possibly high school but is presented as the marvelous genius who can do anything.) And let us also count all the "hackers" who were "hired by those multi-letter agencies right out of high school or without finishing college." If we are in dire need of a workforce with little literacy and a lot of manual skills (which is a bad life strategy, I should add, since age-related changes such as arthritis can make it very difficult to do manual work at a time (midlife) when you need more income (kids, parents needing help)) then these are the kinds of heroes we need to show... along with musicians and athletes.

We could, I suppose, entertain the option of allowing people to drop out of school and enter trade school during the 10th grade (I have a vague memory that this was done in other countries.) This allowed resources to be better focused on the ones who were going to try for college and to better serve those who wanted to "earn money now" and enter the skilled labor force.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

My post had nothing to do with common core. But I would like to make a bit of a correction to your post.



It's a state level initiative that most states have agreed to set up among themselves as a standard for their children.


The correction would be that instead of "states have agreed" it should ready "bureaucrats in the system have agreed." Those in agreement are the ones who in actuality have nothing to do with teaching. It is an effort to "get the numbers up."



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: ketsuko

Language does evolve though. Spellings, sentence structure, grammar, and the words we use all change over time and they also change regionally.

At the end of the day, language is about communicating ideas. If you're able to do that effectively then what's the problem? If you're not, then there's a disconnect. That disconnect exists now in many urban areas can't communicate effectively with others. It's due to socioeconomic reasons rather than race (though it does predominantely affect blacks), but it's very real.


Language does not evolve because little Timmy refuses to learn subject/verb agreement and demands that his "new grammar' be recognized as a legitimate form of English.


Actually, it does. These kinds of changes are seen in the difference between American English and "The Queen's English" - involving spelling and pronunciation and so forth. Change can come fairly rapidly within a society; words shift and so do preferences.

While one child might not dictate a change or a small group might not dictate a change, mainstream differences will cause change. We may well see texting-shorthand become more standardized and present in formal writing (much as that thought makes me cringe) in the next 30 years.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

In Texas parents have quite a bit of input on schools, at least collectively. And that ist he trick: if you want to exert control you need to get large scale backing from parents. Otherwise, you go it alone and end up being mocked and ridiculed in the board meetings.

Its all about social networking, and then breaking through the logical fog of the morons you live around to get them involved, too.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Bill Gates did his most innovative work before he finished his degree. It took him over 30 years to get around to that.

Higher education is not a marker for or against success or intellect either one.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Bell Curves are as good as anything else, which is to say not very good at all. Look at Ivy League schools, last year one of them (Princeton I think) bragged that they didn't give out a single F to any student in any class all year... and they took that to mean they were teaching well. I think it means they just didn't do a good job of teaching.

For many subjects it's really hard to design a test that measures mastery over concepts because you can only ask a finite number of questions and they're almost inevitably going to be small variations over what was done in class, which results in people that tend to memorize answers and pattern match questions to those answers rather than work on the underlying logic of how to derive an answer.

Or maybe that's just my learning style speaking. I don't memorize processes and I never have. I tend to work by taking a starting point, knowing my goal, and trying to make a series of logical jumps to go from one to the other. Which is a process that I've learned is pretty rare among people. The downside to this, is that when something doesn't make sense to me, even if you give me step by step instructions I usually can't do it.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

No. It doesn't.

The argument being presented here is that you cannot teach language at all because the very construct itself is racist. Therefore, however, little Timmy chooses to slap words on a page is his very own language. That's not how language has ever evolved.

We never simply refused to either teach or learn it and then called whatever word salad our children came up with a brand new dialect of it that every teacher must learn and legitimize.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

Not formally.

Too many kids get out of school not understanding that you don't use text speak in the real world. It's a situational thing.

It would be like you saying that shorthand was going to be the future of English because so many secretaries learned how to write it.


It depends on the role, text speak is perfectly legitimate these days for conversational English. I've been using instant messengers since the late 90's so I've been used to it for a long time, long before people started texting constantly. It's certainly not appropriate for business dealings, but at the same time many business details to get discussed internally with text speak. It's only when you do something customer facing that formality becomes a higher priority.

I prefer formal writing myself, I write exclusively in cursive (and even use cursive fonts on my computers) but at the same time I recognize that the world is moving against that. 50 years from now, our language we're using today is going to seem as out of place as the language from the 1850's does to us now.

I always liked this collection of quotes which sums up the evolution of writing
xkcd.com...

I see text messaging as just another extension of that. I've always been pretty fascinated with how technology has changed writing over the centuries though.



posted on Mar, 13 2017 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: 3daysgone

We're not talking about "experts" here. It's a literacy test. The first line of the source in the OP.


New York education officials are poised to scrap a test designed to measure the reading and writing skills of people trying to become teachers, in part because an outsized percentage of black and Hispanic candidates were failing it.

It was designed in such a manner as to be passed by a high school senior. No worries about requirement to be "expert" at anything. It is reading and comprehension.



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