A B757 hit the Pentagon, reported by GOFER06

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: charlyv
The no-planes, no-bodies hype just exposes the ignorance some theorists have of what we really do know. Pounds of human remains from EVERY 9/11 site, and DNA analysis that proves these people were there. This kind of investigation is reality, and conducted by some of the most dedicated people in medical science.

While not revealing the how and why, the where and when is impossible to dispute, if you want to consider real science.
The most massive DNA analysis ever attempted.

As with so many issues, one must consider the source when analyzing statements and searching for the truth.

Sadly, and no insult intended for anybody who works there, but the US DoD has a very strong reputation for fudging the truth and telling outright lies. Pat Tillman's mother Mary found out first hand. Anybody paying attention since, say U.S. v. Reynolds back in 1953. If you're into SCOTUS cases, that is 345US1, from March 9, 1953. Scandalous, but consistent with their mendacious MO.

So, please pardon my extreme skepticism regarding DNA samples from that group.

So let me ask you because it doesnt look like Informer1958 is going to answer.
Do you think the replay on the OP is credible and if not, why is it not credible?

a reply to: Salander

Yeah, they fudged the details about Tillman. No one wants to tell a grieving family that their son or daughter died because of a massive screw up.

a reply to: pale5218

If you mean the replay of the ATC radar information, I am skeptical. That because injects were in use that day, the radar was spoofed. So I'm skeptical of ALL radar data from that day. Maybe parts of it are accurate, and parts inaccurate, but in general I disregard the radar data as being unreliable.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: Salander

Yeah, they fudged the details about Tillman. No one wants to tell a grieving family that their son or daughter died because of a massive screw up.

Whatever the motivation, DoD persisted with its misrepresentation. It was only the efforts of Mary Tillman and the brother that the truth was finally told.

The only point is that DoD picks a narrative and tells it, whether it's true or not. That's what they found at the 911 Commission. Some wanted to charge the DoD witnesses with perjury for their frequent editing of details.

That they would fabricate DNA evidence is easy to believe.

a reply to: Salander

And once again, you try to make a jump that would have Evel Kinevel wouldn't try. Hiding unpreparedness does not even come close to "fabricating" DNA evidence.

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: Salander

Yeah, they fudged the details about Tillman. No one wants to tell a grieving family that their son or daughter died because of a massive screw up.

Whatever the motivation, DoD persisted with its misrepresentation. It was only the efforts of Mary Tillman and the brother that the truth was finally told.

The only point is that DoD picks a narrative and tells it, whether it's true or not. That's what they found at the 911 Commission. Some wanted to charge the DoD witnesses with perjury for their frequent editing of details.

That they would fabricate DNA evidence is easy to believe.

The FBI did the investigation into 9/11, not the DoD.

Perhaps you've not heard of penttbom? (sp?) it was the largest criminal investigation ever conducted.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: pale5218

If you mean the replay of the ATC radar information, I am skeptical. That because injects were in use that day, the radar was spoofed. So I'm skeptical of ALL radar data from that day. Maybe parts of it are accurate, and parts inaccurate, but in general I disregard the radar data as being unreliable.

Lol.

The active civilian, faa radar wasn't being "spoofed".

There were separate radar screens that were being used for the drills that had fake data.

To think that they would be injecting fake returns into the system THAT WAS ACTUALLY BEING USED TO CONDUCT BUSINESS is beyond ludicrous and woefully misinformed.

Post by MrBig2430 in page 43 :
Why don't you come up with some hard evidence for your sneeringly remark on page 43.?
I'm still waiting for that.
I have my evidence at hand, and ready.
Do your homework too, now.

a reply to: LaBTop

Again, as said multiple times before by me in the past 16 years, a B757-200 flew into the Pentagon. At a NoC flight path.

American Airlines flight 77 or a different 757?

pale5218, this is your post I am now responding to, since you start it by mentioning all FAA, civilian sources, and I conveniently assume now that you have no tapes from military sources, like cjnewson88 showed to have used too, see the end of this post :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Further posts by you to consider :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

That PEAC joined video conference, was a MILITARY one. And the military top brass have a LOT of historic important files in their possession, not made public, until now. Such as the surveillance tapes from their Security room, those VHS video tapes that had the whole advancing plane on them. The ones, that Lt Colonel reviewed after he ran to that room beside the River Entrance, as reported in one newspaper, and then was never heard of thereafter.

The direct ATC line into that military top conference and to the PEAC with VP Cheney in it, down under the White House, was strangely enough, all the time, up to the crash of UAL93, unworkable because the ATC could not understand a word from what was coming TO them from that military video conference, and the military could not make sense from them from their side.
Classic "meddling men in the middle" scenario.

So the ATC maintained contact only halfway in later, through a secondary line to another room.
THUS, they were NOT directly participating in that military led, video conference.
Which lights up my - "what a coincidence" - alarm lights.

It was quite helpful in keeping up the basic military readiness resulting confusion, that resulted from all these war games also going on at the time this all started to enfold.
For me, one more indication of careful planning ahead by 9/11 planners (CIA or/and military factions.? ).
The main war game that was going on early already that day of 9/11/2001 was normally held in all the years before, earlier (or later.? ), but was in 2001 by Rumsfeld or/and Cheney advanced or postponed.

There were AWACS early warning planes in the air, which can much better observe low flying objects with no transponders on, from their radar dish position there, high up in the sky, instead of the land based main, primary radar and those other, secondary radar dishes.
Their main task is to quickly find exactly those non-transponder flights, like nearing Russian bombers which constantly probed the US and NATO air defense systems.

Yes, I know, they usually looked out to the other side, towards the oceans, NORMALLY.
But this was already another situation, after 2 planes hit those towers. They were observing inland airspace too, now.
So, Mineta could have heard in the PEAC, one of them calling in, those mileage messages to that young man, who then came in and was telling this every time.
He had to get that mileage from SOME source. We may for sure assume that young guy didn't made that up.

Remember, Mineta was under oath in that Congressional hearing, accompanied by Airlines, FAA and private lawyers, who advised him before he answered. He knew that a lie or a misspeak would turn seriously back on him. These people, when under oath, always use the "I can't remember clearly" escape quotes, in case they do not want to answer honestly, or really can't remember correctly anymore.
But this AAL77 mileage nearing quotes, he explicitly indicated them.

I wrote in my last post to you this below quoted text lines about military radar specialists in return of a remark by you, while you are listening solely to FAA ATC reports, I assume.
And these two, main 9/11 players institutions, were not communicating directly in that DDO conference. All FAA messages went through another telephone line into another room of the PEAC, all the while, up till UAL93 came into play.

In the PEAC, Vice President Cheney was the ultimate 9/11 decision taker at that moment, and strangely enough President Bush was not reachable for the conference participants, in his multi-millions costing plane, especially constructed for exactly these kinds of high tension First Strike situations, and equipped with all the most up to date communication hardware available, payed from lots of tax payers their hard earned money.
DDO conference = Deputy Director of Operations (US CIA) conference.

The FAA was not prepared for an event of this magnitude and as you play the audio tapes, it's very apparent that there was misleading information but none of it was by design. It was the fact of the personnel trying to understand what was occurring.

I agree wholeheartedly regarding the FAA civilians.

But I know a bit or two about military main radar operators, and they were much better trained for such sudden events. And when they say at 09:20, or at most at 09:24 :
""an inbound primary target tracking eastbound "",
they mean business. They have BLIPS.!
And have a rough course within about 1 minute, extrapolating from the multiple blips recorded by them in that past minute. Every 12 seconds a blip, for every one of their full 360 degrees main radar dishes revolutions.
That's 5 blips in a minute.
And every further minute, it became clearer that that blip was advancing in the direction of Washington DC, and came from the northwest.
And thus not from the NE, like Flight11 would have had to come from, in case anybody at the military was confused too about that flight, which I do not believe at all.
Experienced military radar specialists do not confuse that kind of clear blips and their overall directions.

That by me bolded part, up there, comes from that YouTube video, that was made by that JREF member cjnewson88, I posted earlier on about.
pale5218, note that he took his sources from the military NEADS and NORAD tapes too, not only from the civilian FAA tapes.
Title : 9/11 The Lost Tapes full documentary - September 11 2001 NEADS NORAD FAA TAPES.
Published on Jan. 28, 2013, by cjnewson88.

A documentary covering the events of the morning of September 11 2001 from the tapes released from NEADS [North East Air Defense Sector) and the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration).
www.youtube.com...


These posters from JREF/ISF are usually not agreeing with me, and are certainly my opposition.
That's why I wonder why no one from the usual opponents here, or at JREF/ISF, research that video, and the reason why it was posted on YouTube, and his sources. He explains them, by the way.

A reply to: D8Tee

I assume AAL77, since there are no witness reports of other planes sighted.
However, one with a build-in remote control unit and its necessary hardware to lock flight surfaces in the last few seconds, when the patsies at last understood they were used and wasted.

Of course, if this was an even more sophisticated false flag operation, it could have been possible to swap planes above radar holes that were present in those times.
However, I do not believe that to be a very viable operation, that the 9/11 planners would have opted for.
It only complicates matters immensely, and CIA and/or other ev.military false flag planning institutions do not like that, they play the "keep it simple" card, preferably.
As little participants as needed, and keep it all strictly compartmentalized.

a reply to: LaBTop

Interesting theory.

Flight 77, at a slightly different angle?

Why then the concern with the light poles?

I don't know why you would think they would stage any pre damaged light poles if a plane hit the pentagon?

It's usually the people who claim a missile or smaller craft hit the pentagon that have to get rid of the light pole evidence.

Here's another video much like the one you posted I think?
September 11th 2001 In Real Time (FAA/NORAD Audio)

A reply to: D8Tee

I don't know why you would think they would stage any pre-damaged light poles if a plane hit the pentagon?

This is of course a very logical question, which can only be answered by people who worked in, and knew the inhabitants of that faked damage path inside the Wedge 1 and 2 their floors 1 and 2.

Because that is up till now, my only reasonable acceptable theory for staging that left/northerly part of the damage, all up to that clearly blasted inwards, "exit" hole in the brick wall at the outside of Ring C.

Up till now, we have found out that a lot of the miss-accounted trillions of dollars without any receipts were chased after by all these accountants working on that task, many of whom were killed. And the back-up of their work was held in a safe place : WTC-7....

And we know that all the participants in an early morning held ONI (Office of Navy Intelligence) conference, except one young guy who was just send away with a message, were killed in the Pentagon attack, but were amazingly far from that damage path.
One thing popped out : their bodies were all found flocked near and adjacent to CLOSED doors in that top secret room.
Probably secured by special electrically operated safety locks....which kept themselves locked, at any power failure.

You will find no pointers at all, to what happened to ONI their top secret mainframes, which were just moved to their new offices there...do some more research, to find out why every other 3 letter agency up till 9/11, was afraid of all the secret details on every American which was held by ONI, for many many decades already...

This is a victims or victims remains positions drawing of the first floor, I could not find such same one for the second floor.
Note the doors, it seems as if the whole Navy occupied floor was sealed off.
The long western space with all the small offices, nearest to the damage, and up to that further east corridor, was where all the main frames and ONI's worldwide operations were situated :



Now compare it to this NoC flight path and impact drawing by me, it fits surprisingly well :



And the light poles were an extra insurance, lots of convincing physical damage...only one tiny problem came up : that damned VDOT radio mast, that forced them to slightly bank left to avoid it, then slightly bank right again towards the area just north of CITGO and around it, back to Route 27, then bank slightly to the left and pass over or in between the light poles along Route 27 and the two trees there in front of that Helipad, to impact at a much lower speed than they want you to believe.

This I once copied from another site, it made my neck hairs tickle :











To me, 9/11 was a US-Military/CIA-etc. top brass turf war, fought out over the victims bodies.
The USA financed the onsets of the first and second world wars, and participated only in it when it was time to get their share of the looted wealth. Then they openly started all the following wars, world wide, by means of CIA involved meddling with governments first, or bluntly invading under the umbrella of bringing PEACE and DEMOCRAZY....
You are living inside a huge military industrial conglomerate, and they are now playing out their last bet, to bring it to us all, world wide. And psychological mass hysteria is their main operating method.

NO, THANKS !

A reply to: D8Tee

D8Tee, that's a damn good video/audio.
In your video, at 7:09 in already, they had AAL11 on a primary main radar, which are often military operated radars :

AAL: He turned his transponder off, so we don't have a definitive altitude for him. Ahhh..., we are just going by...., they seem to think, that they have him on a primary radar, they seem to think that he is descending.

At 9:22 in, an unknown Boston controller, about a B767, AAL11 :

Yeah, uh we got him on primary.

At 11:32 in, Boston Center :

Yeah,we, we a, it's a primary target, presently, as I said, headin' southwest bound

At 12:04 in, Herndon Center :

You can tag him on the, ahhh, TSD.
Unknown controller: I've got him tagged, primary only?
Herndon Center: You can pick him up.
Boston Center: Primary only.

TSD.? Transponder ?S? Display ..?

More primary remarks in the next minutes.
I go concentrate myself now on the AAL77 primary remarks, if you don't mind, since that is the meat of the matter presently in this thread

a reply to: MrBig2430

Yeah, LOL, the same FBI who asked Wally Miller to be "a team player", the same FBI who brought us COINTELPRO, the same FBI playing the Hillary Game of "oh the Russians did it". Yes Mr. Big, the same FBI raised under J Edgar.

a reply to: MrBig2430

Are you familiar with the company Transtech Control? Christopher Bollyn covers it at his website. They have contracts, and did also in 2001, with many major US airports.

Are you familiar with Michael Ruppert's book "Crossing the Rubicon"? In Chapter 19, "Wargames and High Tech: Paralyzing the System to Pull Off the Attacks" he quotes the Toronto Star and other sources regarding how the radar system was spoofed with injects.

You may not be aware of all that knowledge, but I am.

There was a method to their madness, and all things considered, the attacks were very well planned, and beautifully executed.

originally posted by: LaBTop

pale5218, this is your post I am now responding to, since you start it by mentioning all FAA, civilian sources, and I conveniently assume now that you have no tapes from military sources, like cjnewson88 showed to have used too, see the end of this post

That's not correct, I have the tapes and radar data from NEADS and NORAD from the 911datasets site.
I've been using both sets, Militaey and FAA to cross reference the time line and activity.

The direct ATC line into that military top conference and to the PEAC with VP Cheney in it, down under the White House, was strangely enough, all the time,

I'm not so convinced about who was connected to the PEOC, the FAA had a number of conferences going with different parties them. One reason for that was the Military representatives, physically located in the FAA Command Center was in a more, relay mode because the information that was being gathered was coming from the Operations Floor. The MilItaly had to go to the floor to get updates to pass on. You can hear it on the tapes, they stated several times that they had to go out and get it.

So, Mineta could have heard in the PEAC, one of them calling in, those mileage messages to that young man, who then came in and was telling this every time.
He had to get that mileage from SOME source. We may for sure assume that young guy didn't made that up.

Remember, Mineta was under oath in that Congressional hearing, accompanied by Airlines, FAA and private lawyers, who advised him before he answered. He knew that a lie or a misspeak would turn seriously back on him. These people, when under oath, always use the "I can't remember clearly" escape quotes, in case they do not want to answer honestly, or really can't remember correctly anymore.
But this AAL77 mileage nearing quotes, he explicitly indicated them.

Yes Mineta Could have heard that in the PEOC. There are many "could haves". You can put out all the "could haves" you want, these not are facts though!

What I am explaining is from the actual recordings of FAA and Military and I'm not relying on the animated recreations or the cjnews utube video. This is from actual, time stamped authenticated audio and video. Recreations can be altered.

originally posted by: LaBTop

Post by MrBig2430 in page 43 :
Why don't you come up with some hard evidence for your sneeringly remark on page 43.?
I'm still waiting for that.
I have my evidence at hand, and ready.
Do your homework too, now.

You have no evidence to counter what I said.

You have a fevered fantasy based on carbon fiber wings that don't flex like aluminum wings would.

Why do you lie and make stuff up?

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: MrBig2430

Yeah, LOL, the same FBI who asked Wally Miller to be "a team player", the same FBI who brought us COINTELPRO, the same FBI playing the Hillary Game of "oh the Russians did it". Yes Mr. Big, the same FBI raised under J Edgar.

Yep.

Them.

Got any evidence that they're lying now? About 9/11?

Didn't think so.

a reply to: LaBTop

There's a lot of info at the Rutgers University Law review webpage.
Link