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A B757 hit the Pentagon, reported by GOFER06

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posted on Apr, 21 2017 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: LaBTop

My first and only excerpt in it, did you miss its text, and its mentioning of an inbound primary target tracking eastbound. At 9:20.?
However, the "no tag" call came at 09:24. That's 14 minutes flight time left.
Why don't you want to accept that from my typed out audio recordings, you hear in that AAL, NEADS and Boston and Washington controllers their official recorded AAL77 audio excerpts in that AAL77 video, made by cjnewson88.?


I saw your except and I don't know who cjnewson88 is but they have incorrect information. I got home tonight and listened again to the tapes, DCA TRACON and IAD TRACON tapes.

The Two tapes from the IAD TRACON included the Final Controller who called the DCA area and reported the fast moving target 10 west of White House at 09:34 or 1334Z. I believe this to be Danielle OBrien, the controller who observed the target first.

The next tape was the IAD TRACON Supervisor calling on a direct line to DCA TRACON and informing the DCA TRACON they were "tracking a fast moving target heading toward the White House and the White House has been advised". This occurred at 09:34:38 or 1334:38Z when the AAL77 was just about to start the turn south to complete the 360 degree turn, 10 miles from DCA.

The report by the cjnewson88 is not accurate. The audio tapes show that this 9:20 or 9:24 time is incorrect unless you want to accept that the controllers and the supervisor on duty, observed the target, called the White House and just sat back until this flight got 10 miles into the adjacent airspace DCA TRACON, before the supervisor and the controller decided to call them in a manner that was very urgent.

Where does this cjnewson88 source this reenactment information. The statement of 09:20 or 09:24 has no supporting evidence like the tape recordings.

I'll read more of your post and respond to the questions over the weekend when I have time.

edit on 4/21/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/21/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 22 2017 @ 03:01 AM
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a reply to: LaBTop


wings positions in their flexed-up positions of about 3 meter higher than during normal cruise speed at 825 KMH
How did you arrive at this number?

Simple guesswork?

You never did respond to the questions regarding wing flex presented to you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 22 2017 @ 08:21 AM
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originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: LaBTop


wings positions in their flexed-up positions of about 3 meter higher than during normal cruise speed at 825 KMH
How did you arrive at this number?

Simple guesswork?

You never did respond to the questions regarding wing flex presented to you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Never mind the position of flex is never static. The state of flex is constantly changing.

Turbulent, Wingflex" Condor | Boeing 757 | Landing @ Gran Canaria Airport (GCLP)
youtu.be...

You can see from the video the tips of the wings are constantly moving. You also can see the tips of the wings jump up or down a a few feet due to the pitching and rolling of the passenger jet while in flight.

With Labtop making no effort to use a common reference hight between the light pole and the pentagon to compensate for any discrepancies in ground elevation, and the amount a jet pitches and rolls means the light pole calculations are uselessness.

What a surprise.

Also note: its helpful to outline the context of the video in terms of your argument. The point is made without people watching hours of video. It's like some people are trying to trick other people to watch hours of biased propaganda video. Maybe they get paid by the link?



posted on Apr, 23 2017 @ 06:50 AM
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originally posted by: LaBTop


Some questions : NEADS nor any FAA controller did not track AAL11 its non-transponder blip and did they not see it disappear when AAL11 hit the North Tower from a NORTHERLY direction at 08:46:26 ?
I agree of course with you, that this was the first hit, and no one was prepared on such an outcome, any former hijacks always ended on some airport, delivering a list of wishes by hijackers, in the past.

But still, did no one wonder when they got this report of a THIRD hijacked plane, why they could not find a blip at FL290 or lower, on a course to Washington.? Because there was no other non-transponder plane after UAL175 hit the South Tower in New York at 09:02:54 .
By the way, that plane made a sharp 180 degrees turn to hit the South Tower from the south.


They were watching the primary target and as it moved to a point west of JFK airport it made the 180 degree turn back to the north. At this time, several different ATC facilities were trying to follow the flight.
Two things about this 1) lower altitudes become a coverage issue for the ARTCCs long range radar, 2) this flight is now in some of the busiest airspace, not only in the country but in the world. There is a sea of targets, many tagged and tracked with secondary radar (beacon/transponders) but this is not an easy task to track a flight without the transponder.

The controllers were assimilating the information and trying to make sense of what just happened and during the course of conversations (on the audio tapes) between Boston and NY ARTCC, NY TRACON, JFK and EWR tower, they weren't sure it was AAL11 but they were mostly leaning toward that assumption.

Next, UAL175 hit the north tower and they went into a threat posture and started ground stops for flights to and through NY Airspace. The ground stop went out at 09:05 but this was just a limited stop because this was still localized to NYC.



So they must still have been frantically searching for two blips.? After 09:03.? And up to 09.20, then corrected to 09:24 in my typed out portion of that audio taped AAL77 Controllers video, when they found that blip for an unknown, inbound for the DC area, THIRD plane, they said, with no transponder on.

That's half an hour for experienced military NEADS, NORAD and god knows how many other secret military flight controllers after the second impact in New York made clear that this were terrorist attacks, so the whole US military worldwide went on high alert directly after 09:03.! And certainly on the east coast regions.
And why did they identified it as a THIRD plane.?
And not as that second (UAL175) or first (AAL11) one.?


They weren't searching for the two blips after UAL175 hit the WTC. They were all trying to understand what happened, they were all assuming that the two hijacked flights from Boston were the ones that impacted the towers. The ground stop that was implemented was to assess the airspace and provide the controllers a workable situation until this impact to the airspace was understood.

09:02 Lost radar/communication procedures were taking place for AAL77 when the flight disappeared from radar and was not responding to calls. The Indy controllers called American dispatch to see if they can raise them on the company frequency which is normal protocol for this issue.

At 09:19 a conversation between Washington ARTCC Operations Manager (OM) and Indianapolis ARTCC OMs stating that they are searching for AAL77, Indy OM advised they were looking for the flight AAL77. By this time they have heard the news about NY WTC and were getting concerned that this was another possible hijack. The Indy OM stated that this information "needs to get out"

The FAA Command Center in Herndon was calling Indy ARTCC at the same time to question them about AAL77 and what the information was for this flight. You can hear the controller who answered from Indy that the above conversation between the OMs was going on. He asked the Command Center to stand by and when the OM was done with Washington OM, he provided the information.

The Command Center got word of this AAL77 from American Airlines, after the call from Indy at 09:02, American Airlines were speculating this could be another hijack, they were privy to AAL11 from previous calls. Indy was not aware of this hijack to AAL11 during the early calls to American Airlines so they weren't on the same page.

At 09:21 NEADS receives the false report that AAL11 was still airborne. This is where the THIRD aircraft comes into the picture, the assumption was that UAL175 hit the WTC, so if AAL11 was still airborne headed towards DC (false report) then a third flight, still not identified must have been what hit the south tower. They did raise the speculation or question about AAL77 being that aircraft that hit the south tower but it was escalating and this was just a speculation at this time.




You said ""AAL77 was not observed again on radar until in IAD airspace.""
I think the ""THIRD plane lost"" remark by that NEADS controller at 9:20 or 9:24, contradicts your statement, or am I dead wrong.? It implicates that they were in a still confused state of mind about two missing plane blips, but knew already for half an hour about two impacts in Manhattan, and knew now at 9:20 or 9:24 about a THIRD plane with no transponder on, and I assume in that case, its blip can ONLY meant to be describing the later tagged AAL77 that hit the Pentagon.


The THIRD aircraft was the two that hit the WTC towers, UAL175, the unknown flight that hit the south tower and the false report of AAL11 still airborne reported at 09:21. They could have considered AAL77 as one of these three but if so, they were considering it as the flight that hit the south tower.

09:33 is the first time NEADS is aware of AAL77 and now thinks two aircraft are headed towards DC.

As I noted before, the IAD controller observed the primary target, IAD Supervisor called it into the White House sit room, NEADS was aware of AAL77 at this time but all indications this was occurring well inside the ranges of 50 or 30 miles.




edit on 4/23/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/23/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2017 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: pale5218

Thanks, that all makes sense to anyone who's been involved in any sort of crisis where initial info is lacking, sketchy or just plain wrong and confusion reigns.

Hindsight is always better of course but it never saves the day



posted on Apr, 23 2017 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: Pilgrum

Hindsight is often blocked. Yes hindsight is a good thing and helpful to learning, but sometimes hindsight is blocked by devious humans. For example, the selective and biased writing of history for future generations.



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 06:57 AM
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originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Pilgrum

Hindsight is often blocked. Yes hindsight is a good thing and helpful to learning, but sometimes hindsight is blocked by devious humans. For example, the selective and biased writing of history for future generations.



What devious humans? What is the end game of being devious? What was rewritten? Mr, "I see government agents everywhere." Am I a devious human? Am I rewriting history? Am I a government agent?

Are you the one in denial a large jet hit the pentagon?

Are you the one that cannot provide a quote from the 300 plus people that worked the Shanksville site there was no crashed?

I think it's the truth movement as a whole that is the most guilty on creating a false written history.

How many totally false and baseless theories have been created by the truth movement over the last 15 years.


edit on 24-4-2017 by neutronflux because: Fixed this and that

edit on 24-4-2017 by neutronflux because: Added last paragraph



posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux


originally posted by: [post=22160250]neutronflux
originally posted by: [post=22158366]Salander
a reply to: 22157517]Pilgrum

Hindsight is often blocked. Yes hindsight is a good thing and helpful to learning, but sometimes hindsight is blocked by devious humans. For example, the selective and biased writing of history for future generations.



This quote was not written to you. Are you offended?


What devious humans? What is the end game of being devious? What was rewritten? Mr, "I see government agents everywhere." Am I a devious human? Am I rewriting history? Am I a government agent?


Talk about being emotional. We all know the OS by heart, since it is regurgitated daily on here.

OS: Plane hit Pentagon.

OS: Office fires brought down 3 WTC.

OS: Plane crashed in Shanksvile PA.


I think it's the truth movement as a whole that is the most guilty on creating a false written history.


The Truth Movement again. Always the Truth movements fault.

Our government has never committed a crime, or told a lie? Our CIA "never writes" false history?

You paint a wonderful picture about TPTB and never question any of it.


How many totally false and baseless theories have been created by the truth movement over the last 15 years.


The question you should been asking is how many "false, baseless theories" have been created by our government, properganda mainstream media, CIA, over the last 15 years?





edit on 24-4-2017 by Informer1958 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: neutronflux


originally posted by: [post=22160250]neutronflux
originally posted by: [post=22158366]Salander
a reply to: 22157517]Pilgrum

Hindsight is often blocked. Yes hindsight is a good thing and helpful to learning, but sometimes hindsight is blocked by devious humans. For example, the selective and biased writing of history for future generations.



This quote was not written to you. Are you offended?


What devious humans? What is the end game of being devious? What was rewritten? Mr, "I see government agents everywhere." Am I a devious human? Am I rewriting history? Am I a government agent?


Talk about being emotional. We all know the OS by heart, since it is regurgitated daily on here.

OS: Plane hit Pentagon.

OS: Office fires brought down 3 WTC.

OS: Plane crashed in Shanksvile PA.


I think it's the truth movement as a whole that is the most guilty on creating a false written history.


The Truth Movement again. Always the Truth movements fault.

Our government has never committed a crime, or told a lie? Our CIA "never writes" false history?

You paint a wonderful picture about TPTB and never question any of it.


How many totally false and baseless theories have been created by the truth movement over the last 15 years.


The question you should been asking is how many "false, baseless theories" have been created by our government, properganda mainstream media, CIA, over the last 15 years?


What is your bottom line? Did a B757 hit the Pentagon? If not, what did?



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: Informer1958

You got a valid and credible argument what caused the damage at the pentagon other than a commercial jet.

Can you provide a quote from the persons working the shanksville site there was no crashed jet?

You got a valid and credible argument on how jet wreckage and the flight recorder recorders ended up buried up to forty feet deep in area 70 feet by 70 feet. The buried wreckage in a large debris field of jet wreckage. How fragments of human remains were spread over a twenty acre area.

What happen to WTC 7? Now it's about 3?

Sorry. I researched and read up on both sides of the issues. Watch debates. The people putting out the largest amount of false information and the people that are the least credible are the people claiming no jet at the pentagon, no jet at Shanksville, and have not taken the time to understand the collapse mechanism at the WTC.

Going to make a logical argument, or just use personal attacks.


And the quote. You have misquoted me on a statement I made about eyewitnesses. In fact, on more than one occasion. I have asked you to provide my actual quote to back your claims of what I posted.

I think you are beyond intellectual dishonesty. I think you have a convenient memory problem. Why else keep bringing up truth movement talking points debunked over and over again? For the last 15 years?

Funny how you claim it has nothing to do with the truth movement, but you use their talking points?

Bottom line, it's your talking points that have the least credibility and the most right out falsehoods.
edit on 25-4-2017 by neutronflux because: Added last two paragraphs

edit on 25-4-2017 by neutronflux because: Fixed this and that



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: Informer1958

People stuck on the same falsehoods that have been debunked over and over again are the road blocks to the truth. Thanks!



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: pteridine


What is your bottom line? Did a B757 hit the Pentagon? If not, what did?


I do not know what happened at the Pentagon. I do not have proof of anything.

However, the fact is, the OS of the Pentagon crash lacks simple evidence to support it.

There are many visions of the Pentagon stories, however most of them also lack any credibal evidence to support them.

What my research proves is, a great cover up, and a story given to the American people by our properganda mainstream media that has now been proven to be controlled by the CIA.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: pteridine


What is your bottom line? Did a B757 hit the Pentagon? If not, what did?


I do not know what happened at the Pentagon. I do not have proof of anything.

However, the fact is, the OS of the Pentagon crash lacks simple evidence to support it.

There are many visions of the Pentagon stories, however most of them also lack any credibal evidence to support them.

What my research proves is, a great cover up, and a story given to the American people by our properganda mainstream media that has now been proven to be controlled by the CIA.





Do you think the evidence in the replay is credible?
If not, why is it not credible?



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 07:39 PM
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a reply to: LaBTop



Again, as said multiple times before by me in the past 16 years, a B757-200 flew into the Pentagon. At a NoC flight path.


American Airlines flight 77 or a different 757?



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: Informer1958

And again from the top...:

Discredit and explain the 100 plus eyewitness that give an account of a large jet hitting the pentagon. If you didn't know what happened at the pentagon, then what right do you have to not believe the scores of eyewitnesses that give an account of a large jet hitting the pentagon. You just believe what you want to believe with no logic.

If it wasn't a large jet that hit the pentagon, then what caused the damage.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: Informer1958

In short. You will not speculate what happen at the pentagon because you don't know what happened at the pentagon. Yet you get to choose that a 100 plus people didn't see a large silver commercial jetliner strike the pentagon. Perfect logic.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

You forget that provable facts carry no weight in a conspiracy theory.
We are homing in on a full 16 years and they are still spinning new theories.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 08:19 PM
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originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: neutronflux

You forget that provable facts carry no weight in a conspiracy theory.
We are homing in on a full 16 years and they are still spinning new theories.


The term conspiracy theory is just an excuse for corrupt bureaucrats to use to deflect suspicion from themselves and pour ridicule onto that conspiracy theory. It's funny watching to see those caught up in that scam.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux


You just believe what you want to believe with no logic.


Like you, with the OS of the Pentagon crash, correct? Where is the logic in that? Because authority said so?

Not everyone is fooled by government properganda.



posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: Informer1958

Wrong again. Numerous civilian's and individuals attest to a commercial jet hitting the pentagon and the physical evidence. The truth movement talking points being debunked and discredited over and over again by individuals.

Ever going to answer what caused the damage at the pentagon?

Ever going to explain how you don't know what happen at the pentagon, but you get to dismiss the 100 plus eyewitness that give an account of a large jet hitting the pentagon with no valid reason to discredit the accounts?




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