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A B757 hit the Pentagon, reported by GOFER06

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posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 12:53 AM
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While contemplating on all these frantically AA 77 searching ATC controllers, as can be seen in those 24 diagrams, I can't overcome one conclusion regarding that strange remark from that young Cheney aide :

"Are the orders still standing.? "

That order could have been easily be one like this :

"At all costs, do not relay hijacked flight data to the FAA. They could be compromised by the News channels, and panic could result."

Btw, why can't anybody find out the name of that young aide, and find out from him, what orders were spread ? Why is such critical information suppressed at such scale.?
Does anybody think that gag orders for that day's events still exist?
For Sergeants Lagasse and Brooks, the 2 Pentagon Police Force members, being North of CITGO gas station flight path eyewitnesses, they seem to be still in place, curiously so.




posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 04:09 AM
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originally posted by: LaBTop

A reply to: pale5218

As you see, NORAD lost it only for 18:52 min/secs and reacquired its radar returns by The Plains radar (see nr 23 diagram, that's 180 miles out) as Primary only at 09:09:30 already again, that's 29 minutes before it reached the Pentagon. So, yes, it is quite possible to have been reported by that young military aide that informed Cheney, according to Mineta, that the plane was now 50 miles out.
See also its Scribd page-diagrams nrs 3, 8, 9, 10, 11 etcetera, but especially 23 where you see that 5 Main radar sites in total, recorded AA 77 during those 180 miles out :



I looked through all the charts in the transcript, actually a fairly good layout. The question is when was this radar data put together. In a postmortem type analysis, this would be able to be charted if the data was captured , which we now know it was.

The question here is how much of this was known real time and by who. I don't think the FAA knew because they were in a continuous search for it based on testimony and evidence in the audio recordings. The military was also searching from what is in the NEADS audio but more than that, there was lack of communication so I'm not sure they knew to look west for AAL77.

There was the focus on the two flights out of BOS that impacted the WTC but the confusion also kept them focused in the wrong area because they had inaccurate information regarding AAL11. They thought that flight was not the aircraft that hit the WTC but was still airborne and heading towards Washington.

I didn't understand why this was confusing at first but listening to the tapes of N90 and NY Center, this flight was reported at higher altitudes which would preclude the possibility of it being the impact flight. The first thoughts immediately after impact was a small aircraft, then it was thought to be a B737. If they really thought or considered it was AAL11, they wouldn't have been putting these "guesses" or rumored type aircraft out. So this leads me to believe they didn't connect the two at least not immediately.

So based on the track from Boston Center southbound, the assumption would be "heading toward Washington"

Back to the radar data, there are two possible scenarios here of which I can't answer. The track of AAL77 after transponder was turned off and primary only, was this real time or was it discovered in that postmortem research?

When I first viewed the replay of the radar (OP), I didn't know what primary target was AAL77 until it played up to the 360 turn and then ended a few minutes later at the site of the Pentagon. So this was like a reverse engineering approach, work backwards from what you know.

I described the primary vs secondary (transponder) tracking and the reason for the difficulty of tracking a primary target in the normal environment. The filters are turned up/down to remove things like ground clutter, anomalous propagation etc. to clean the presentation. That reduces the primary radar also.

Although the radar presentation is clean, the radar system is still tracking and recording these primary targets, background crap and all the other things. So in a replay, you can tune the radar to get though to the primary targets that weren't being shown real time.

So it goes back to the question of was it postmortem or real time knowledge. I can say with the utmost confidence that with the FAA, this was not real time. This was only through the analysis of the data, after the fact, that they were able to provide the video replays we see.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: LaBTop

The order, was for the DCANG to take out Flight 93 should it appear over the Capital. This has been information available for a long time. Conspiracy theorists do not want to accept it. There is no "gag order". If you want to file a FOIA to see if you can get the duty roster for the PEOC that day, you might be able to figure out who the serviceman was....not that there is any reason why a civilian needs to know.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Salander
It's fascinating to see so much discussion about an event that did not happen LOL. So much bandwidth in honor of Ol' Hani, Ace Pilot. Cold-blooded killer slits throats of airliner crew, straps on the Big Boeing, and flies a maneuver most line pilots consider to be impossible.

Yes, the Emperor's New Clothes are beautiful, eh?


The whole point here is that the data shows he didn't have to be an ace pilot. There's no reason to believe he executed that turn, dove sharply and leveled off sharply with enough Gs to rip the wings off, yet miraculously kept it a few feet off the ground and then flew the last 5 seconds of the flight, 3/4 of a mile, at that altitude. That's the event that didn't happen. Most pilots say a rookie pilot couldn't do that; I'd be inclined to agree, and there's no reason to believe he did.

He executed the turn, then descended into the Pentagon. None of the data you guys are providing shows otherwise. You're insisting he pulled this Top Gun manuever for no apparent reason. It simply wouldn't be necessary to do this in order to hit the building.


What data shows he didn't have to be an ace pilot? If the comments of his flight instructors counts as "data", he was a really bad pilot, in Cessnas.

The "data" from the FDR, as analyzed by Dennis Cimino, was concocted. According to Cimino, the unit was not assigned an airframe. It is bogus, and the feds had about 5 years to cook the data, since it took them 5 years to respond to the FOIA request. The data was there, but it took them 5 years to send it out. What were they doing in 5 years? Making "data" up, is what it looks like.

The maneuver was impossible, the data was forged, there was no debris at the site consistent with a crashed airliner, numerous eye witnesses observed an airliner go by, but in the wrong flight path to strike the building as it supposedly did. The pentagon, I am sorry to say, is notorious for its mendacity.

All that, the preponderance of the evidence, show the story to be impossible. Why should I believe it?


Radar data from different sources not matching doesn't change the fact that the maneuvers required to fly into the building were routine. There's no evidence that he executed an air show dive and pulled out of it at the last second and then flew the last 5 seconds 20 feet off the ground. That's something people just made up to say "look there's no way he could've done that!" But there's no evidence of it. Not to mention it would make no sense to do that, either from an actual hijacker pilot's perspective or from the supposed hoaxers' perspective. Why would they sit around a table and be like 'yeah let's make the official story that he pulled off these top gun maneuvers with no training, that'll keep the public guessing'? Get real.

All that was required was a slow turn to get lined up, then a dive into the ground. These are very basic maneuvers, far from impossible. Your narrative is full of holes and has no evidence. There may not be enough evidence of a plane for you, but it's infinitely more evidence than there is for your narrative because anything is infinitely more than zero.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but judging from those comments you are not a pilot yourself.

Did you know that radar systems can be spoofed? They are really just a video game of sorts. Both the military and the FAA conduct training by using injected (fake) targets into the system. In his book Crossing The Rubicon, Michael Ruppert offers several sources including the Toronto newspaper claiming that "injects" were cluttering FAA radars on that day. It was, after all, one of the days that the training exercise Vigilant Guardian was in play.

As to the maneuver, according to the official story, AA77 was overhead the pentagon at 7000' and commenced a descending turn, about 300 degrees of turn, and struck the building.

Anybody who has ever flown from the left seat of any airplane, especially a huge plane like the 757, knows that if you intend to land on a point on the ground underneath you, you make your turns to the left so that your target can remain in visual contact. IOW, if you turn to the right, especially in a large airplane, the target runway immediately goes out of sight.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: Salander

Before you get into radar, bank angle, turn radius, ground effect, etc. start with more basic things. I haven't had an answer from the missile conspiracists, overflight team, left/right of Citgo crew, and the small holers on these simple questions:

In your opinion, were bodies of passengers found in the Pentagon in the remains of an airliner? Yes or No.

If they were, how did they get there? If they weren't, where are the passengers?



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 12:55 PM
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A reply to: cardinalfan0596

UA 93 went down at 10:03 or alternatively at 10:06 (still not adequately resolved).
AA 77 went down at 09:38.
Mineta explicitly talked about AA 77 in his later Congress hearing.

So why was there no shoot down order in place for AA 77, already 54 or 57 minutes, before UA 93 was shot down or forced down.? At 08:46:26 Flight 11 hit the WTC1N tower, then at 09:02:54 Flight UA 175 hit the WTC2S tower.
From that moment on, every military man or woman, and we all, knew this was a terrorist event, and they were hellbent to fly planes into landmark buildings.

When the military long range radar at 09:09:29 already registered/knew where a vast moving big plane (AA 77?) was, at 180 miles out from the Pentagon, and its altitude was also already registered/known at 09:17:48, and the military registered/knew at that point very well that this was ANOTHER unknown fast moving plane, flying without transponder, in the overall direction of the capital, so nearly 100 % sure another terrorist held passenger plane, do you really think this was not relayed to the Secret Service and the military aides assigned to the VP's staff in the Panic Room under the White House.?
They had 61 minutes time (after the whole world knew this was a planned terrorist event) to contact the SS detail and their own military aides in the White House (VP's) staff, to tell them exactly that.

Those aides were/are specifically assigned for exactly THAT task, inform the President and/or the Vice President about all matters concerning national security.
That VP there, was at those moments, their highest commanding principal, above all there generals and admirals.
And Cheney had made that fact quite clear to ALL of them in the year before.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: LaBTop

Reading your posts always gives me a headache due to the disjointed way you spew information. It was at 9:02 that we knew we were under attack, at 9:24, NEADS was informed that Flight 77 was a suspected hijacking. Thirteen minutes later, it slammed into the Pentagon. At that time, there were no interceptor jets in the air over DC, the nearest were still 150 miles away when Flight 77 hit.

Mineta's testimony is that he arrived at the White House when it was being evacuated....the evacuation order for the White House, was issued between 9:41 and 9:45...AFTER the Pentagon had been hit. So, according to his own words, he could not have been in the PEOC prior to Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon....leaving Flight 93 to be the airliner for which "the orders still stand".....the order for Marc Sassville and Heather Penney (DCANG) to intercept Flight 93.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: LaBTop
A reply to: cardinalfan0596


When the military long range radar at 09:09:29 already registered/knew where a vast moving big plane (AA 77?) was, at 180 miles out from the Pentagon, and its altitude was also already registered/known at 09:17:48, and the military registered/knew at that point very well that this was ANOTHER unknown fast moving plane, flying without transponder, in the overall direction of the capital, so nearly 100 % sure another terrorist held passenger plane,



LabTop. Was this from the NORAD analysis that they knew from at 09:09:29 that target was out there. I did see the charts on the scribd site?

Also the altitude at 09:17:48 where did that show? I know there is some post event analysis documented but I am not sure if it was knowing wn real time.

That's my question about the replay data, I don't know if it was. I also don't know if it wasn't known except from what I heard and seen as the actions of the FAA and/or military.

What I can tell, the first indication of them knowing or concerned was when the flight was passing south of IAD.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 05:04 PM
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9/11 Attacks : Air Threat and DDO Conference-Calls transcript.

Type in 145 (from 201 pages) and use your Enter key on your keyboard.
Read this carefully :


• The original transcription was incomplete. The pages between the red and green flags (pp169-192) reflect the previously non-transcribed portion.

• The entire transcription was redone by USD (I) staff in conjunction with Joint Staff because there were many inaccuracies in the original.

COORDINATION: None.


In the period 2001 to 2003 they redid, redacted and edited all the following pages 146 to 201.
Why did they not preserve the original texts, to facilitate later historians to chew on that.?
I thus can not trust the following conference transcriptions :

Type in 147 (from 201 pages) and use your Enter key on your keyboard.
The DDO conference was at that 9/11-moment convened with the Air Thread Conference from the National Military Command Center.
Then read on from there :

Page 147 : Capt Leidig, from DDO at the NMCC = National Military Command Center) knew at that moment about the two planes that flew into the Twin Towers, which must have been shortly after 9:02 (2nd impact) but probably just a few minutes after 9:09 when AA 77 was picked up again by The Plains main long range radar, and at that moment they knew that another probably hijacked plane with its transponder off was heading to Washington DC.

After that, a lot of talking, not much was done in terms of facts or decisions. This whole transcription section is what made the 9/11 Commission say that the military lied to them.
It seems NORAD was in the center of the confusion whirlpool.
Then suddenly they say the Pentagon was hit. No former warning messages, just that remark.
Page 151 : DDO: This is the DDO providing an update.
There's a report that an aircraft has crashed into the Mall side of the Pentagon.


Page 163 : PEOC: Understand we have got an inbound 25 minutes out. We have assets out at Andrews. Has anybody contacted those?
This must be UA 93. And they thought it was 25 minutes away from Washington DC.

Page 165 : NORAD again has no confirmation, while the others, JOC and PEOC have given the warning. It's as if NORAD long range main radar watch was asleep.

Page 166 : PEOC: Word I got from the JOC is we got a united flight 93 out of pittsburgh about 20 minutes out.

Page 168 - 169 : PEOC: We've got confirmation of an airplane 60 miles out.We think it's Flight United 93. Apparently, we're hearing weapons freeze right now.
Then some talk about available jet fighters, then this :
PEOC: DDO, this is PEOC. The Vice President has just confirmed fighters are cleared to engage the aircraft inbound if we can verify that it is,in fact,the hijacked aircraft.Can you confirm with FAA?
DDO: This is the DDO. I'm checking with the FAA at this time.
PEOC: DDO, this is PEOC. We'd like NAOC airborne,please.
PEOC: DDO, PEOC
DDO: This is the DDO. Go ahead.
PEOC: Yeah, Col. Irwin once again. We've just been in contact with Air Force One, ml. aide. We have a request and direction. We'd like AWACS airborne over Louisiana. We'd like fighter escort-
DDO: FAA report of aircraft down in Pennsylvania.


Page 170 : The FAA has implemented a nation wide ground stop -- snip--

And then some more interesting events. Read it if you are curious.
But realize, its all redacted, redone and re-edited.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 05:46 PM
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A reply to: cardinalfan0596


The order, was for the DCANG to take out Flight 93 should it appear over the Capital. This has been information available for a long time. Conspiracy theorists do not want to accept it.


Yes, that flight was brought to his attention a lot later.
I just showed you in my above post that VP Cheney ordered that much broader order a long time after AA 77 slammed into the Pentagon.
Just read the whole SCRIBD link from page 145 on, to page 176 (where the DOD directed force protection level Delta worldwide). Then read its page 180, where Steve Hadley from DAPNSA informs the conference that VP Dick Cheney AT LAST had ordered to take out all seemingly aggressive planes.
Mineta talked about AA 77, not UA 93. And about an aide who came in a few times to inform that the plane was 50, 40, 30, 20, miles out. And at last asked " Do the orders still stand? ". And that happened MUCH earlier than when the first words about UA 93 came out in that Air Threat and DDO Conference.
Which recording of it is very suspicious, and I am not alone in that, the whole 9/11 Commission in the end even wanted to subpoena the whole military Staff brass for lying under oath. That could only be evaded by the (not so neutral PNAC member) Commission chairman his intervention together with pressure from the White House.

Regarding your next post, we once already had the same interaction (did you use another screen name then?), and I showed you there with some News links, that the White House evacuation started and took place MUCH earlier already then you so eagerly want to believe. I even posted photos from those links with secretaries and other personnel stumbling while running to the gates, long before 09:38.

And yes, I know the burden of proof rests on me again, so I am going on a witch hunt again in the dungeons of the ATS Search, pffft.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: LaBTop

9/11 Attacks : Air Threat and DDO Conference-Calls transcript.

Type in 145 (from 201 pages) and use your Enter key on your keyboard.
Read this carefully :


• The original transcription was incomplete. The pages between the red and green flags (pp169-192) reflect the previously non-transcribed portion.

• The entire transcription was redone by USD (I) staff in conjunction with Joint Staff because there were many inaccuracies in the original.

COORDINATION: None.


In the period 2001 to 2003 they redid, redacted and edited all the following pages 146 to 201.
Why did they not preserve the original texts, to facilitate later historians to chew on that.?
I thus can not trust the following conference transcriptions :


If it was edited or amended in some way then I think there is pause to accept the testimony but I don't see where there is any confirmation of primary target position or altitude report. I'll do some more reading and if I can see any indication of military acknowledging the position of AAL77.


Type in 147 (from 201 pages) and use your Enter key on your keyboard.
The DDO conference was at that 9/11-moment convened with the Air Thread Conference from the National Military Command Center.
Then read on from there :

Page 147 : Capt Leidig, from DDO at the NMCC = National Military Command Center) knew at that moment about the two planes that flew into the Twin Towers, which must have been shortly after 9:02 (2nd impact) but probably just a few minutes after 9:09 when AA 77 was picked up again by The Plains main long range radar, and at that moment they knew that another probably hijacked plane with its transponder off was heading to Washington DC.



I don't see anything on that page that indicates AAL77 was picked up on radar or any subsequent pages ??



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 06:34 PM
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A reply to : pale5218


LaBTop : When the military long range radar at 09:09:29 already registered/knew where a vast moving big plane (AA 77?) was, at 180 miles out from the Pentagon, and its altitude was also already registered/known at 09:17:48, and the military registered/knew at that point very well that this was ANOTHER unknown fast moving plane, flying without transponder, in the overall direction of the capital, so nearly 100 % sure another terrorist held passenger plane,


pale5218 : ""LaBTop. Was this from the NORAD analysis that they knew from at 09:09:29 that target was out there. I did see the charts on the SCRIBD site?
Also the altitude at 09:17:48 where did that show? I know there is some post event analysis documented but I am not sure if it was knowing in real time.
That's my question about the replay data, I don't know if it was. I also don't know if it wasn't known except from what I heard and seen as the actions of the FAA and/or military.
What I can tell, the first indication of them knowing or concerned was when the flight was passing south of IAD.


Did you really miss my last post on page 29 and its second diagram, with its 3 radar measured altitudes in the lower right bottom ??? And its first and last radar notion.??? Push your CTRL + keys together, about 7 times, to crank up the size.

OK, here it is again :
files.abovetopsecret.com...


Regarding your other question : yes, I am sure the military radar guys relayed that again picked up radar information for AA 77 very fast to Cheney, under the White House. Everything points to it, see my "page 147" remarks in my above Conference post.

A very deer friend flew already for more than 10 years in those AWACS before that 9/11 day, he told me, that kind of "near wartime" radar info was always directly relayed to all Command structures in those days, and especially to the head of States, if the danger of escalation was looming.
And unknowns on their radar screens were of immediate importance in such situations.

The just above, linked to by me, 9/11 story as painted by the USD (I) staff in conjunction with the Joint Staff members in 2003 indicates a clear intention to withhold lots of not mentioned pieces of communication, that for sure would have killed the official stories. They paint such an unbelievable report of incompetence, that it made you wonder if they should not have been fired all on the spot. Especially NORAD, every time they were asked for info, they could not deliver any. Only far later, every time. I do not believe that report for one second, air surveillance those days was MUCH better than painted in that report. An E4-B was in the air, and two were on the tarmac....do they think we are all >80 IQ sufferers.?

Do not forget by the way, the just as unbelievable crazy story of the FAA room supervisor who collected on 9/11/2001 all already typed or written memory-recapture reports from his ATCers, and cut them in tiny pieces and then parted them over multiple dust bins.....



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 08:12 PM
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I thought the first step in a murder investigation was to identify the victims? Then you figure out the cause of death and gather evidence?

Did the crew and passengers of flight 77 end up dead at the pentagon as outlined by the coroner, death certificates, and DNA testing?

If the passengers and crew did not end up dead at the pentagon, what remains were released by the coroner for burial by families?



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: LaBTop
A reply to : pale5218


LaBTop : When the military long range radar at 09:09:29 already registered/knew where a vast moving big plane (AA 77?) was, at 180 miles out from the Pentagon, and its altitude was also already registered/known at 09:17:48, and the military registered/knew at that point very well that this was ANOTHER unknown fast moving plane, flying without transponder, in the overall direction of the capital, so nearly 100 % sure another terrorist held passenger plane,


pale5218 : ""LaBTop. Was this from the NORAD analysis that they knew from at 09:09:29 that target was out there. I did see the charts on the SCRIBD site?
Also the altitude at 09:17:48 where did that show? I know there is some post event analysis documented but I am not sure if it was knowing in real time.
That's my question about the replay data, I don't know if it was. I also don't know if it wasn't known except from what I heard and seen as the actions of the FAA and/or military.
What I can tell, the first indication of them knowing or concerned was when the flight was passing south of IAD.


Did you really miss my last post on page 29 and its second diagram, with its 3 radar measured altitudes in the lower right bottom ??? And its first and last radar notion.??? Push your CTRL + keys together, about 7 times, to crank up the size.

OK, here it is again :
files.abovetopsecret.com...


Regarding your other question : yes, I am sure the military radar guys relayed that again picked up radar information for AA 77 very fast to Cheney, under the White House. Everything points to it, see my "page 147" remarks in my above Conference post.

A very deer friend flew already for more than 10 years in those AWACS before that 9/11 day, he told me, that kind of "near wartime" radar info was always directly relayed to all Command structures in those days, and especially to the head of States, if the danger of escalation was looming.
And unknowns on their radar screens were of immediate importance in such situations.

The just above, linked to by me, 9/11 story as painted by the USD (I) staff in conjunction with the Joint Staff members in 2003 indicates a clear intention to withhold lots of not mentioned pieces of communication, that for sure would have killed the official stories. They paint such an unbelievable report of incompetence, that it made you wonder if they should not have been fired all on the spot. Especially NORAD, every time they were asked for info, they could not deliver any. Only far later, every time. I do not believe that report for one second, air surveillance those days was MUCH better than painted in that report. An E4-B was in the air, and two were on the tarmac....do they think we are all >80 IQ sufferers.?

Do not forget by the way, the just as unbelievable crazy story of the FAA room supervisor who collected on 9/11/2001 all already typed or written memory-recapture reports from his ATCers, and cut them in tiny pieces and then parted them over multiple dust bins.....


LabTop I didn't miss the post. What I am saying is the chart there is a recreation from radar data. They were able to plot this after they pulled the radar data but it was not observable during the the real time event. This data is captured in radar in the form of data files that can be displayed, after that fact, which is what you are showing, a recreation of the track from the data files. The radar does not display an altitude to an aircraft unless they have a transponder, the altitude is a derived measurement from the captured data.

This radar data from Oceana system was like any other radar system in which the primary target was being tracked but it was undetectable on that day just like the Indianapolis and Washington ARTCCs radar systems, they captured it too but because they had the filters that enhanced secondary radar and degraded primary radar, they weren't able to pick it up.

It wasn't until the data from the files during the recreation did it become know. That's how this chart was made, in a post analysis recreation and this is how they were able to establish altitude readouts, from Oceana radar in the recreation. Radar systems the FAA use do not have any ability of displaying altitude until the data is collected and plotted.

That aircraft they were discussing on page 147 is the inaccurate reporting of AAL11 still airborne and headed for Washington. This was a error in reporting from NY and picked up by NEADS and Giantkiller.

They didn't think AAL11 was one of the aircraft that impacted the WTC. They thought it was continuing south. They weren't talking about AAL77 at this time.



posted on Mar, 29 2017 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: LaBTop

You keep talking about surveillance and mentioning the E-4B like they had something to do with it. They had nothing to do with the surveillance that day. At best they would have been a relay to NORAD and the command posts. They certainly wouldn't have increased the existing surveillance in any way.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 12:49 AM
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a reply to: LaBTop

Thank you LaBTop, always a good post.


I love their rebuttals, I think, they assume, could not have, and yet the 911 Commissioners wanted a criminal investigation, into the Pentagon, FAA and the White House because of their lies and I noticed how much this is ignored.

In the end the Commissioners admitted, the story we told the public is NOT the story told to us.

Sad indeed.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 01:05 AM
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originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: LaBTop

Thank you LaBTop, always a good post.


I love their rebuttals, I think, they assume, could not have, and yet the 911 Commissioners wanted a criminal investigation, into the Pentagon, FAA and the White House because of their lies and I noticed how much this is ignored.

In the end the Commissioners admitted, the story we told the public is NOT the story told to us.

Sad indeed.


Where'd you come up with that?



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 01:05 AM
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Not to go "off topic" and trigger one of the mods, but if you look at the smoke plume off the initial impact of the Pentagon, it is black, huge and slow burning....the hallmark of kerosene...jet fuel.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 01:53 AM
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a reply to: Informer1958

There is no debate if Labtop just ignores criticism after criticism. Just keeps posting longer and longer posts until all pointed out shortcomings are pushed into the background.

By the way, please do tell how the crew and passengers of flight 77 ended up dead at the pentagon.

Also, please explain what remains were released to the families of flight 77 victims by the coroner for burial?

Finally, explained what caused the damage at the pentagon.



posted on Mar, 30 2017 @ 11:58 AM
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A reply to: FlyingFox

It's also the hallmark of a burning 1000 liter diesel tank in the back of the generator trailer.
I posted three photos once, where you saw the first smoke of that tank, and it was white, then it gradually got gray, then dark black and a huge column of black smoke developed from that tank.
There was also a lot of smoke from the roofs, which are layered with bitumen, which also burns black. And they had used horse hair in the nineteen forties, as insulation under the bitumen.

And of course JET-5 fuel also burns black, but that was turned into an instant ignited aerosol at impact, and only burned a few seconds outside. Inside is a whole other story. I posted on page 28 a whole row of photos to contemplate on.
Look at the two with no people at all in them. For a certainly not raging, but small fires showing scene.
That photo was taken very early on, when for the first time everybody was sent to the overpass and behind Route 27, because of the first of a few threat assessments from FBI Agent Combs and Fire Chief Schwartz :
Pentagon fires analysis.




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