Shouldn't Automation Be a Good Thing??

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
That was the "anyone who works less than you do."

Apparently, even if you work the same or even more hours, it is translated as, "if you earn less it must be because you do less".

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
That was the "anyone who works less than you do."

Apparently, even if you work the same or even more hours, it is translated as, "if you earn less it must be because you do less".

Welcome to Ronald regans conservatism...

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: rickymouse
We need something to do. Automation is not giving us the needed exercise nor does it provide us with the satisfaction of seeing what we created. I like building things, I do not like buying them totally built. I built homes, I like to see some result of my labor. Where are we going to get the money to buy what automation builds, look at personal debt in this society, people and the government are going farther and farther into debt, because we don't make money the old fashioned way and also because robots and automation do not pay taxes.

Is debt real On a national level when your money isn't based on anything to begin with??


Money isn't real..it is smoke and mirrors.

All that physics cares about is labor, knowhow and materials.

Money has just been the lubrication.

Military might is all that really matters when concerning countries.

Money is real, I just had my oil changed, it cost thirty five bucks. I just got a couple of filet of fishes at McDs. They were on sale for two for five bucks. Belief dictates if something is real in society. If you aren't working and making money you can't buy what you need to survive in this reality.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: rickymouse
We need something to do. Automation is not giving us the needed exercise nor does it provide us with the satisfaction of seeing what we created. I like building things, I do not like buying them totally built. I built homes, I like to see some result of my labor. Where are we going to get the money to buy what automation builds, look at personal debt in this society, people and the government are going farther and farther into debt, because we don't make money the old fashioned way and also because robots and automation do not pay taxes.

Is debt real On a national level when your money isn't based on anything to begin with??


Money isn't real..it is smoke and mirrors.

All that physics cares about is labor, knowhow and materials.

Money has just been the lubrication.

Military might is all that really matters when concerning countries.

Money is real, I just had my oil changed, it cost thirty five bucks. I just got a couple of filet of fishes at McDs. They were on sale for two for five bucks. Belief dictates if something is real in society. If you aren't working and making money you can't buy what you need to survive in this reality.

Not to nations...

No matter how much money we owe china we will not be giving them Alaska or San Diego...

China has given us legit goods and services in exchange for promissory notes we will never pay.

We have the best military in history and if you loan money to tony soprano he only pays you if he feels like it. .

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: rickymouse
We need something to do. Automation is not giving us the needed exercise nor does it provide us with the satisfaction of seeing what we created. I like building things, I do not like buying them totally built. I built homes, I like to see some result of my labor. Where are we going to get the money to buy what automation builds, look at personal debt in this society, people and the government are going farther and farther into debt, because we don't make money the old fashioned way and also because robots and automation do not pay taxes.

Is debt real On a national level when your money isn't based on anything to begin with??


Money isn't real..it is smoke and mirrors.

All that physics cares about is labor, knowhow and materials.

Money has just been the lubrication.

Military might is all that really matters when concerning countries.

Money is real, I just had my oil changed, it cost thirty five bucks. I just got a couple of filet of fishes at McDs. They were on sale for two for five bucks. Belief dictates if something is real in society. If you aren't working and making money you can't buy what you need to survive in this reality.

Not to nations...

No matter how much money we owe china we will not be giving them Alaska or San Diego...

China has given us legit goods and services in exchange for promissory notes we will never pay.

We have the best military in history and if you loan money to tony soprano he only pays you if he feels like it. .

Why can't we give them San Diego. I'de say we would benefit by doing that.

a reply to: seasonal

Yea and the civil unrest thing will mysteriously be followed by an outbreak of some weaponized airborne pathogen that will kill off 30% of the population.

Problem solved.

Let me put it real simple for you.
1. A firm employs 100 workers.
2. The owner or boss, whatever you want to call him, installs auto to do the jobs of 100 people.
3. The said boss thinks "why should I employ 100 people when autos do the work. so he sacks the workforce.
4. He then keeps all the wages that the autos generate, does not give a hoot that he's put 100 people out of work That the government now has to keep.
5. Now multiply that scenario into thousand or even millions of people and you'll see where the problem is.
It is already happening now and Americans hold up the"entrepreneurs" as gods. But they are the problem and the only solution (which none of you will like) is to forcible take money off these blood suckers and give everyone a decent allotment.
Now to upset you.; One of the biggest blood suckers is Bill Gates. Just why he has amassed billions when according to the OPs scenario he should have shared his money with his workforce and the government (not taxes) to allay the governments support of it's people.
I've wrote many a reply to this problem and it started vastly earlier than you realize. The biggest con on working people ever perpetrated and it's still being pulled now as evidenced by the OP.
It stems from the industrial revolution with the same lie "the machine will do your work so you will have more leisure time". But what they never ever tell you is you'll have no money because the bosses will keep it all. As it was 200 years ago with the industrial revolution it's the same today with automation.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Some people are naturally born with a work ethic.
To deny those people an opportunity to do what they love doing is a hell indeed.

However, no one should be a slave to a job that can be easily automated.

Basic Living Wage, but keep a few more "traditional" establishments around for the ambiance.

Or as a punishment for a smart-aleky rude and insufferable teenager who need some damn ethics and the concept of the value of a dollar drilled into them before being release back out to pasture.

originally posted by: crayzeed
Let me put it real simple for you.
1. A firm employs 100 workers.
2. The owner or boss, whatever you want to call him, installs auto to do the jobs of 100 people.
3. The said boss thinks "why should I employ 100 people when autos do the work. so he sacks the workforce.
4. He then keeps all the wages that the autos generate, does not give a hoot that he's put 100 people out of work That the government now has to keep.
5. Now multiply that scenario into thousand or even millions of people and you'll see where the problem is.
It is already happening now and Americans hold up the"entrepreneurs" as gods. But they are the problem and the only solution (which none of you will like) is to forcible take money off these blood suckers and give everyone a decent allotment.
Now to upset you.; One of the biggest blood suckers is Bill Gates. Just why he has amassed billions when according to the OPs scenario he should have shared his money with his workforce and the government (not taxes) to allay the governments support of it's people.
I've wrote many a reply to this problem and it started vastly earlier than you realize. The biggest con on working people ever perpetrated and it's still being pulled now as evidenced by the OP.
It stems from the industrial revolution with the same lie "the machine will do your work so you will have more leisure time". But what they never ever tell you is you'll have no money because the bosses will keep it all. As it was 200 years ago with the industrial revolution it's the same today with automation.

Yeah, that is simple.... simple minded.

Here is what actually happens. The boss/owner mortgaged his house and put at risk his entire life savings to start a business. He worked 100 hour weeks for nothing for five years to grow the company and now it is finally paying off. The next thing you know, he is employing 100 people.

He provides a great service and product. However, he is getting pressure from his customers who want his products cheaper. If he lowers his prices too much he won't be profitable, so the only thing he can do is cut costs. His biggest expense is labor.

Some of the jobs are low skilled. He employs say 10 people to stack boxes at his warehouse. They make $15/hr.

A new robot technology has come out which could fully automate his warehouse. The ROI on the investment in the robot would pay for itself in about 2 years. The robot isn't perfect, but he can get rid of 7 of his 10 warehouse workers. The remaining three are needed to operate robot.

As a result, he can now offer lower prices to your CHEAP ASS and not have the company go out of business. See what always get left out of these conversations is the effect that consumer behavior has on business decision making. Everytime you use an App or decide to "shop around" you get lower prices but it makes it that much more competitive for a company to stay in business and thus they have to look for ways to cut costs.

The very people complaining are often the very people that are the cause...

originally posted by: Edumakated
Yeah, that is simple.... simple minded.

So was that.

a reply to: Edumakated
And what you don't or wont understand is those customers, those consumers ARE his workers. Take the wages off the workers and you have NO economy, no disposable income. I've said it once and I'll say it again You Americans are all for this "it's his business, he put his money into it and he should reap all the rewards" And that in a nut shell is why your economy will fail with automation because the greedy bosses want ALL the money and let all the others suffer.

As others have said, it all comes down to implementation, or how we wield the tool.

In my opinion, we haven't faced a shift like this in quite a long time. We are unprepared in that regard.

The tough part is that to truly take advantage of these advances, it will require some pretty fundamental changes in our way of life. Planning for this is probably prudent, but we are more likely to collectively wake up one day wondering "how the hell did we get here?!"

Basically, it could be one of the best and most important advances humanity has ever achieved, but to actually realize that it will require shaking our culture and society down to our foundation (perhaps even past it). That's a very, very tall order regardless of benefit.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Edumakated
And what you don't or wont understand is those customers, those consumers ARE his workers. Take the wages off the workers and you have NO economy, no disposable income. I've said it once and I'll say it again You Americans are all for this "it's his business, he put his money into it and he should reap all the rewards" And that in a nut shell is why your economy will fail with automation because the greedy bosses want ALL the money and let all the others suffer.

You are free to invest your own money to start a business and run it as you see fit. You can pay every employee $100k/yr and give them six months vacation. We will see how long you are able to keep it running...

No matter how altruistic a business may be the realities of a competitive market place and MATH will eventually come into play. Only government can sustain negative losses year over year to infinity and not go out of business. Every business has to contend with labor cost, competition, and price pressure. Management has to make tough decisions and often times it means getting rid of jobs that are no longer needed.

Businesses are not started to create jobs. Jobs are a function of the business being profitable and growing. A job is created because it is supposed to be a net gain for the business. When you own a business, you hire an employee to allow the business to grow. Once that employee costs more than the bring in, you have to let them go or else you risk the entire enterprise failing.

a reply to: Edumakated

In your knee-jerk to defend the poor endangered american businessman you jumped the shark and completely missed the point.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: seasonal

Yea and the civil unrest thing will mysteriously be followed by an outbreak of some weaponized airborne pathogen that will kill off 30% of the population.

Problem solved.

No it wouldn't...

There will be no event where those that rule the world kill of 30% of the population.


Those in power do not benefit from big chaotic events. They benefit from the status quo.

Big events stir the pot , and anything that stirs the pot risks big swings in power. Those in charge before said event couldn't guarantee they would be in charge after it.

so make no mistake they want us working and paying taxes.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Edumakated
And what you don't or wont understand is those customers, those consumers ARE his workers. Take the wages off the workers and you have NO economy, no disposable income. I've said it once and I'll say it again You Americans are all for this "it's his business, he put his money into it and he should reap all the rewards" And that in a nut shell is why your economy will fail with automation because the greedy bosses want ALL the money and let all the others suffer.

You are free to invest your own money to start a business and run it as you see fit. You can pay every employee $100k/yr and give them six months vacation. We will see how long you are able to keep it running...

No matter how altruistic a business may be the realities of a competitive market place and MATH will eventually come into play. Only government can sustain negative losses year over year to infinity and not go out of business. Every business has to contend with labor cost, competition, and price pressure. Management has to make tough decisions and often times it means getting rid of jobs that are no longer needed.

Businesses are not started to create jobs. Jobs are a function of the business being profitable and growing. A job is created because it is supposed to be a net gain for the business. When you own a business, you hire an employee to allow the business to grow. Once that employee costs more than the bring in, you have to let them go or else you risk the entire enterprise failing.

Which is why humans will replaced the second companies are able..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Big events stir the pot , and anything that stirs the pot risks big swings in power. Those in charge before said event couldn't guarantee they would be in charge after it.

That is why the best thing they can do is hand everyone some monopoly money and let the game go on.

The only ones I see complaining are old folks in their usual, "when I was young ...".

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Big events stir the pot , and anything that stirs the pot risks big swings in power. Those in charge before said event couldn't guarantee they would be in charge after it.

That is why the best thing they can do is hand everyone some monopoly money and let the game go on.

The only ones I see complaining are old folks in their usual, "when I was young ...".

Yup the status quo is what any ruling body wants... the ones who want chaos are those who seek power .

I think it's a good thing, but again, that's irrelevant to reality. My opinion on something doesn't dictate the truth of a thing.

We know automation is coming and not only is becoming increasingly prevalent, it will continue to do so at an astounding rate as new technology comes in.

The only question is, what are we/me/you going to do about it?

The answer is don't become one dimensional and don't become dependent on manufacturing jobs. They aren't going to be here. There will always be people dependent jobs. We just need to adapt.

It's just like the automobile revolution. Farriers went out of work, thousands of them, the smart ones moved on to different professions.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
You think the monetary system is just going to disappear? How do you propose to account for the job loss automation will incur? No, I don't view it in a very positive light at all.

The thing is, human beings are built to constantly work, search for food or avoid predators. Our bodies are just not designed to sit around all day. So we might eventually free ourselves from work once we develop smart enough robots, but that will just mean we have to go to the gym more often and we'll lose our toughness.