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The Dark Rigidity of Fundamentalist Rural America

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posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 08:16 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: pyramid head

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: pyramid head
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
I was on topic, and replying to your thread. If your going to start a thread labeling a group of people from a position of arrogance, expect people to challenge you on your opinion.
Not being able to defend your opinion doesn't mean I'm "pushing buttons".

Sorry if you are seeing any arrogance from me. That is not what this thread is all about. It is about perception and conversation, and...

Of course it seems that way to you. You have no idea of the concept of freedom. You don't even have the basic right of free speech. Your in a cage telling someone on the outside how great the inside of your cage is. You can keep your "educated" lack of freedoms granted by inbred pedophile kings and queens in england. We'll continue to "enthusiastically vote against our own interest"(freedom). - White Christian God King Worshipper

...has got Jack # to do with it. In the words of the Prophet, of course.

It is, and your being disingenuous. Your labeling a group of people that you ideologically disagree with as less intelligent.
Now you don't want defend your position anymore. That's fine, just don't make it like I'm somehow off base.

OK, Buddy says:
When a 2,700-year-old book that was written by uneducated, pre-scientific people, subject to translation innumerable times, and edited with political and economic pressures from popes and kings, is given higher intellectual authority than facts arrived at from a rigorous, self-critical, constantly re-evaluating system that can and does correct mistakes, no amount of understanding, respect or evidence is going to change their minds and assuage their fears."

Do you disagree that this is a pretty good assessment of Christian Fundamentalism? Do you see this as a major influence on rural America? How would you categorise that worldview in terms of dealing with the demands of modern society?

Me, I'm not going to call it less intelligent...that's your terminology. I think I can get away with calling it narrow, though.


I couldn't disagree more. The article is rantings and ravings from a degenerate racist.

The term fundamentalist is not used correctly in this article, and is incorrectly labeling a large group of Christians.

Your asking my opinion on a group that doesn't exist. You are describing Islam more than Christianity.

If you read the article and still agreed with this lunatic, it may be you who's the fundamentalist.




posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 08:30 PM
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The problem isn’t that I don’t understand these people.


That's debatable.


The problem is they don’t understand themselves


Also debatable.


or the reasons for their anger and frustration.


And a strawman argument.


And done with that crap essay.
edit on 9-3-2017 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 08:32 PM
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originally posted by: pyramid head

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: pyramid head

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: pyramid head
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
I was on topic, and replying to your thread. If your going to start a thread labeling a group of people from a position of arrogance, expect people to challenge you on your opinion.
Not being able to defend your opinion doesn't mean I'm "pushing buttons".

Sorry if you are seeing any arrogance from me. That is not what this thread is all about. It is about perception and conversation, and...

Of course it seems that way to you. You have no idea of the concept of freedom. You don't even have the basic right of free speech. Your in a cage telling someone on the outside how great the inside of your cage is. You can keep your "educated" lack of freedoms granted by inbred pedophile kings and queens in england. We'll continue to "enthusiastically vote against our own interest"(freedom). - White Christian God King Worshipper

...has got Jack # to do with it. In the words of the Prophet, of course.

It is, and your being disingenuous. Your labeling a group of people that you ideologically disagree with as less intelligent.
Now you don't want defend your position anymore. That's fine, just don't make it like I'm somehow off base.

OK, Buddy says:
When a 2,700-year-old book that was written by uneducated, pre-scientific people, subject to translation innumerable times, and edited with political and economic pressures from popes and kings, is given higher intellectual authority than facts arrived at from a rigorous, self-critical, constantly re-evaluating system that can and does correct mistakes, no amount of understanding, respect or evidence is going to change their minds and assuage their fears."

Do you disagree that this is a pretty good assessment of Christian Fundamentalism? Do you see this as a major influence on rural America? How would you categorise that worldview in terms of dealing with the demands of modern society?

Me, I'm not going to call it less intelligent...that's your terminology. I think I can get away with calling it narrow, though.


I couldn't disagree more. The article is rantings and ravings from a degenerate racist.

The term fundamentalist is not used correctly in this article, and is incorrectly labeling a large group of Christians.

Your asking my opinion on a group that doesn't exist. You are describing Islam more than Christianity.

If you read the article and still agreed with this lunatic, it may be you who's the fundamentalist.



Well, thanks for your post. It's very interesting to know there are people out there whose thinking replicates yours.

Fact is that much of rural America is poorly educated, and what education they have teaches them to hate "Democrats" and "Liberals" and "Progressives" (usually abbreviated to libtard progs or something like that).

I think that they are realizing that they voted for the mess that we have now.
I mean, when Glenn Beck apologizes for his part, but Alex Jones says he's "ready to die for Trump", we are in serious trouble. Serious. Trouble. Capital T.

Because, you see --- there are people who take those clowns seriously! There are otherwise smart, sensible, normal people who think that Limbaugh and Hannity are genuine news.
I have relatives (aunts/uncles/siblings) who think like that. It baffles me.



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 08:37 PM
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Fact is that much of rural America is poorly educated, indoctrinated


Fixed that for you.



I have relatives (aunts/uncles/siblings) who think like that. It baffles me.


No worries. I have no doubt you baffle them too, and not in the way you think.



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Responding again because I was on my phone earlier, and I can write a better response with a keyboard.

Rural and urban areas each offer their own challenges. I grew up in the urban areas so I saw it there, and I've lived half my life in the rural, so I'm familiar with that too. Rural areas tend to be far more religious, and I would say the world just passes them by in a lot of ways. A joke I make with a friend of mine in Marietta, is that the town is 15 years behind the rest of the world. And to give examples of that, they're just now getting real internet service, traffic cams, and so on. They like the idealized memory of 1950's America and they do their best to keep it that way... and in many ways they do. Alot of the force against modernization happens to come from the fundamentalist side of the town. There's actually a very large gay population here (just across the river in Parkersburg, WV they have quite a reputation), but they're all banned from the churches/social events, have trouble getting employed, and can't even walk together on the streets. They just hide it out of sight, out of mind.

Those types of actions aren't good. It's the direct result of the church, acting as a political organization, to keep classes of people down.

As I said though, urban areas have problems too. Having a higher population density can be great for getting better utility service, and efficiently housing a population, but it leads to a lot of additional stress from people. People need their own spaces, and the cities don't have that. Everything is shared. You likely share an apartment with 4 roommates, you share a ride to work, you share a work space, you share a bench in the park, you share a work station at the gym, and on... and on... and on... that exposes a city person to a lot of cultures but it also means they don't really have time/space to themselves and that creates stress. Sometimes the stress is just a lower quality of life, other times people act out and contribute to the crime rate.

Small cities (say 80-100k people) are probably the most optimal paces to live. They're big enough to have good public services and good employers, but still small enough that things aren't overly crowed, despite being dense enough to expose people to multiple cultures.



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

There is an "in between" thing that you haven't mentioned.

Inside metro areas are communities. Generally small towns or townships that have been absorbed into the "metro" area. But they all still have their origins, and their 'downtowns' --- even if it's only two blocks long.



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 08:56 PM
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originally posted by: D8Tee

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: generik
a reply to: D8Tee

not any that i have ever known. relatives of mine have recently stopped farming. they were getting too old and their kids all were not willing to do the hard work, for the low pay, ie barely making ends meet. i hear the same story from farming families i know both in the US and Canada. i don't know any of the rich land baron/factory farmers.
I'm close enough to the locals to hear the joke:
Q - How do you define child abuse in the country?
A - Leaving the farm to the kids.



The average net operating income in 2015 is forecast to be $77,287.
The average net worth per farm is expected to reach $2.7 million this year.

Those numbers are below your payscale?



I've also experienced the boreal forest of northern Alberta for a couple of seasons so I have an inkling of your world...though just an inkling.

Let me guess, you have something bad to say about the people that live there as well? Or why else would you have pointed it out?

Sigh...really? What orifice did you pull that out of?
If you live in farm country, you will know that there is a crisis on small operations in that many of the next generation would rather sell out than maintain the family spread. As to the Alberta thing I was acknowledging Burdman's comments that some folks that live in isolated communities do so out of choice, and that I have a little experience to back him up. Seemed pretty clear to me. Must be us foreigners just have a little trouble with the language, eh?


originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Aazadan
There is an "in between" thing that you haven't mentioned.
Inside metro areas are communities. Generally small towns or townships that have been absorbed into the "metro" area. But they all still have their origins, and their 'downtowns' --- even if it's only two blocks long.

Quite so, but that is a hybrid set of problems. Quite often it is formerly rural in nature, but has become a bedroom community for urbanites trying to find affordable housing. It takes quite a while before the focus changes from downtown for friends, entertainment and family to a collective cultural milieu in the burbs. And the original locals don't necessarily take kindly to the process.
edit on 9-3-2017 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because!!



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 09:04 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Aazadan

There is an "in between" thing that you haven't mentioned.

Inside metro areas are communities. Generally small towns or townships that have been absorbed into the "metro" area. But they all still have their origins, and their 'downtowns' --- even if it's only two blocks long.



There's those areas for sure. I generally have a positive view of them. I've visited several such communities in Columbus, San Francisco, and LA, but never lived in one. Having a small reminder of a more traditional home can be good for centering people in the midst of a more chaotic lifestyle, But those places still don't make up for other cultural differences. People stopping on a road to help a motorist, or gang violence, Sometimes people really want to get away from one or the other... but it's tough to get away from both.



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 10:57 PM
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originally posted by: vor78
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

As someone who was also born and raised in the rural south, I would suggest that a major reason why people vote the way they do is because of the arrogant, condescending nature displayed in the idea that they're 'voting against their self-interests,' as if they can't decide that for themselves.


Oh what an immature cop out to shirk the responsibility of being informed and voting with responsibility.

If that's not behaving like the so-called "special snowflakes" needing safe spaces, I don't know what is.

"They're condescending to me! I'm gonna do a protest vote against them because they hurt my feelings!"

And, "They're MAKING me vote for Trump because they're so mean and condescending!"

That sounds like a lack of responsibility to me...

Really? Because I've been seeing that sorry excuse more and more from the right-wing. It must be making the rounds on some AM radio stations or blogs as of late.

I have no problem calling a spade a spade, and a moron a moron. If they don't like it and want to act like petulant children who want to be pandered to -- well, they're going to be sorely disappointed.
edit on 9-3-2017 by Kettu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 11:23 PM
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originally posted by: Kettu
If they don't like it and want to act like petulant children who want to be pandered to -- well, they're going to be sorely disappointed.


Yes, we've been witnessing this in action since early November...

Oh, and nobody "made" me vote for Trump. I made that choice myself, with my own best interests in mind, and I've yet to regret that choice in any way.



posted on Mar, 9 2017 @ 11:51 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Using something that is presented or attempting to think outside of the box, there is always the opposing critique, and then occasionally the crafty sparring in intellectual semantics . Everyone is more less a tool, because everyone must adopt an identity (or some variable) which has ideological rooting in speciesism and general ethnic bias. I've never seen an entire planet agree on something that effects everyone. Instead, people selfishly defend their individuality and collective biases at the cost of humanity itself, which is in the best interests no one. SO, what of the future and posterity.






edit on 10-3-2017 by Gianfar because: "-"



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I read the opinion piece, word for word.

I grew up in the South, Texas to be exact, and lived both the Urban and Rural life and went to several schools all over Central Texas. I got an eyeful, and I got an earful. While I can find some truth to the points illustrated in this op ed, I must say he really has pulled the "we're better than" card on this one.

Pssh.

I moved to my current location, Small Town Arkansas from Big City Seattle.

Long story short it took some "shaking off" of my previous Hard-Line Urban Schooling to reintegrate back in more Laid Back Lifestyle Oriented Small Town Life.

To use the vernacular, there was a group who could "smell the Big City North" on me and it took, and is still taking time to reassure this group that yes, I am a Christian, yes I understand why you hold certain sentiments although I don't hold them myself in all situations, that no, I am not a threat to your way of life and I don't wish to be.

It's been twelve years and they still interrogate me over and over about the same things. At first I was offended, mainly due to the schooling differences, but slowly, I began to understand the methodology behind their behavior. Reinforcement. Stand your ground. Know what you stand for. Know who you are and why you are.

They are who they are.
We are who we are.

This is America, and damn it, they have a right to live the way they see fit just as much as the next.

They aren't any fools to History, the persecution of folks by the Roman Catholic Church that drove many of them to seek refuge in America, they read voraciously, have a keen understanding and recall when it comes to laws in their jurisdictions, and they usually lead quiet, family oriented pious lives unless something gets them riled up out of their comfort zone.

When they get mad, they get MAD.....but most of the time they are busy in their own concerns, and generally want to be left to their prayers, contemplation and live in peace.

Sound familiar?

Personally, I'm glad

I think a lot of us are like that.


These Hard Liners keep rampant Gentrification and Over-Development at bay, and keep this small town a Small Town.

I've already lost several cities where I no longer feel welcome because I'm not "well dressed enough", "pretty enough" or "rich enough" to meet the snobby elitist standards of the New Developments I certainly can't afford to live in.

At least back home, I know there will be serious hell to pay if anyone steps on the wrong toes around here.

Just sayin'.

And no, not all Rural Folk are hardliner racists or dumb as a bricks. They're multi-generational families who have lived in the same region since the States were first founded and fiercely territorial to their family heritages.

And you know what?

GOD BLESS 'EM FOR IT.




Sorry about the life story, guess I got "triggered" by this one and felt compelled to respond. Ignore me. I'll go away now. Sorry.

edit on 3/10/17 by GENERAL EYES because: formatting....it's kinda an obsession at this point.



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 12:22 AM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Oooh, a white liberal told you so, so it must be true... Red herring anyone?... It's not as if liberal atheists proclaim themselves as "the-know-it-alls", and decide to blame "Christian belief" for people's problems...

Humm, ironic that the white liberal doesn't see the hypocrisy that his own liberal atheist beliefs, and his contempt for anyone who would believe in God, makes him blind to the fact that "there are liberal atheists who also do the same things he blames religious people for" ...

edit on 10-3-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 01:25 AM
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Good thread. The article is a bit over the top. I live in a large metropolitan area, but lived in rural America for 7 years. I grew up a very conservative Republican, I made it into the C Suite in the Corporate world and I made an enormous amount of money. I have drifted politically to the middle. Which more or less means, no one will agree with me. But, hear me out.

If you are too far to the left, you want to take my money away from me, shower it on people thinking it will fix their problems when in fact it won't. The Bernie Sanders' of the world represent the worst of these types. I would never vote for someone like that. Wealth redistribution is a horrible idea.

The far right seems to lack empathy. Lets cut entitlement programs, set rigid rules on who we should let live in America, and categorically deny the possibility of some scientific possibilities like climate change. Cut workers rights, keep minimum wages low etc. If you work hard, you will make more, the rest will trickle down to everyone else.

True, if you want to get ahead, you need to work hard. But, here is the reality. Once in the C suite, we spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to pay ourselves more and not give a penny to anyone else. It worked great. Guess what, all the board members of every public company think the same way. If you are in the club, you are set for life. If not, you are a peasant. There is some luck involved in the process of getting in. Lots of really talented hard working people do not.

Entitlements. Most companies don't offer pension plans or long term health care plans for retirees. If you are a family of 4, make $60K - $80K per year, the truth is, you aren't going to save much money. When you lose your job, you will probably have a house, $100,000 in a 401(k) plan and not much else. In today's high cost world, that isn't going far. These folks make up much of America. We owe them Social Security. We owe them affordable health care and Medicare to thank them for their hard work that helps make America great. If you live to 85+ your medicare costs are likely to be a multiple along the order of over 10 - 20 times the amount you ever paid into Medicare. My self employment taxes the last 5 years have been over $300,000. Don't get me started on what my income taxes were. Even making payments like that are unlikely to cover my Medicare costs if I live into my 90s. Ultimately all of us are going to receive benefits. If the recipient was a hard working American that lived a clean life, don't try to take the last bit of dignity away from them.

At the end of the day, we are in this together. We need to make smart decisions. Don't give money away. But, higher education should be reasonably affordable. Health insurance should be pooled nationally such that premiums for individuals who purchase policies individually not through a group plan should be priced based on coverage only, not taking into account age or pre-existing conditions. There should be an individual mandate as we should all contribute. If you refuse, then you should not be entitled to Medical care, even if that means you will die.

Finally, what is it with the right trying to categorically deny climate change? Maybe the proof isn't irrefutable. But, living here in middle America, it used to be below freezing with lots of snow in February. The last several yeas, we have had 60s and 70s in February. It has almost been warm enough to consider opening my swimming pool in February. High carbon pollution has only been occurring for about 150 years. That is a nano-second in the life of the planet earth. Smokers, an equivalent chemical to humans usually takes 40+ years before the human dies. Smoking seems to be an equivalent to carbon pollution. At a minimum, we owe it to our children to study the effects on our planet and make changes as required. Denial of both the issue or the need to study it further is simply unbelievable.

OK, let the haters hate. BTW, I voted for Trump, because Hillary was so against my financial self interest. But, I for whatever reason expected Trump to move to the middle since he was a former Democrat. Boy was that wrong...



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 03:00 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I do not see the point that you are making. Are you being anecdotal regarding Gencom?? What is your point. What the OP is stating is that as a group Fundies in rural communities think a certain way. Actually it is the majority that drive cultures. SO your comments regarding the 20% of Fundies that are gamers (a generour number perhaps) is not ringing true.


You are niftily sidestepping the major point which is the Fundamentalist mindset exists in Christianity and represents a deeply conservative mindset which is the central tenet of the OP. the OP gives a number of signifiers towards the end of the article that support the central tenet. I have met many urban fundamentalist who are fish out of water. several women have fallen prey to the sort of scammers that prey on the deliberately insular.

edit on 10-3-2017 by Tiger5 because: Add in more text



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 03:31 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Good Post

What are the major side effects of a poor education?


1) a lack of Numeracy (the number one failing in the USA) How can you harness the giant of US homegrown talent if your population is enumerate?


2) A lack of critical thinking. Sorry telling me "the bible says" is not critical thinking.

3) an unholy alliance between the Fundamentalists and non fundamentalists demagogues who use a religion's specific morality to benefit themselves at the expense of the gullible folk.

4) An insularity that has been around and written upon since the time of the great push westwards. No Hillary cannot be blamed for how previous authors wrote about the insularity.

Guess what even Karl Marx wrote about it. Cue MCCarthyite hysteria form the right ( who still look under their beds every night).

I can quote Marx because I HAVE AN EDUCATION. EDUCATION ROCKS




edit on 10-3-2017 by Tiger5 because: Add in more text



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 06:30 AM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

There are a lot of family's who have lived on same land as their forefathers,lived a different standard some never had a television set,some don't have phones,they live off the land,and probably did more bartering then exchanging money,I'm retiring soon,and after living in city's all my life,sounding pretty damn good,just have to stock up on winter wear,in California,shorts and a light jacket are winter wear



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: Tiger5


You and some others in here sound like bigots. I am sure you figure yourself to smart for that.

I grew up in very small town. It had all sorts. You would know that about the outlands if you really knew what you were talking about. What your ilk are looking for is some way to splane why "country" folks apparently didn't buy into the liberal plan this election. And natural being the bigots that you are go to some cooked up common denominator that really serves to reinforce your world view......another reason why you may never understand why libs are losing. But what can one expect from someone that believes "Marx" is an education.



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:38 AM
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originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Tiger5


You and some others in here sound like bigots. I am sure you figure yourself to smart for that.

I grew up in very small town. It had all sorts. You would know that about the outlands if you really knew what you were talking about. What your ilk are looking for is some way to splane why "country" folks apparently didn't buy into the liberal plan this election. And natural being the bigots that you are go to some cooked up common denominator that really serves to reinforce your world view......another reason why you may never understand why libs are losing. But what can one expect from someone that believes "Marx" is an education.




Shoot me for reading widely and deeply to try to understand how the world is outside of Hicksville! It is clearly a crime to be well read and to stay in school beyond the fourth grade. I knew I could tease at least one idiot out of the woodwork. Why not respond to my concepts as opposed to picking out the words that you can read!

Keep the ad hominems coming but remember who started it!


I feel bad at your poor attention span. You obviously did not read where I have been arguing about he evils of fundamentalism. Still if you build a bigger straw man you can call Freddy!


edit on 10-3-2017 by Tiger5 because: Add in more text



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 09:43 AM
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originally posted by: Tiger5

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Tiger5


You and some others in here sound like bigots. I am sure you figure yourself to smart for that.

I grew up in very small town. It had all sorts. You would know that about the outlands if you really knew what you were talking about. What your ilk are looking for is some way to splane why "country" folks apparently didn't buy into the liberal plan this election. And natural being the bigots that you are go to some cooked up common denominator that really serves to reinforce your world view......another reason why you may never understand why libs are losing. But what can one expect from someone that believes "Marx" is an education.




Shoot me for reading widely and deeply to try to understand how the world is outside of Hicksville! It is clearly a crime to be well read and to stay in school beyond the fourth grade. I knew I could tease at least one idiot out of the woodwork. Why not respond to my concepts as opposed to picking out the words that you can read!

Keep the ad hominems coming but remember who started it!




Ok so you want to talk like that and then talk ad hominem against your person. lol. What sort of wide reading are you doing to call all people that live outside large metro areas and the suburbs "hicks" with all the baggage that carries? Real deep.




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