China says NKorea could suspend nukes for halt in US drills

China is suggesting that if we suspend our drills in S Korea they will get N Korea to end their missile program. One major point they make is the fact they don't like our missile defense system so close to home.

Washington and Seoul say the system is defensive and not meant to be a threat to Beijing. China is opposed to the system, saying it would allow U.S. radar to peer deep into its territory and monitor its flights and missile launches.

I find this reaction by China to be very interesting. What is the problem with monitoring missile test if nothing nefarious is taking place. Agreeing to suspend the training exercises(that have been going on for decades) in exchange for disarming N Korea's missile program does not sound terrible, however, I would leave the missile defense systems right where they are. I would also require all missiles and production facilities to be dismantled and shipped out of N Korea. China's reaction to the missile defense system seems to be the key to them stepping up and putting pressure on N Korea. I wonder why? What say you fellow ATSers?

link

China needs to control North Korea. If they cannot then they need to step aside and allow for Korea to be reunified.

Of course a reunified Korea is not what China wants. That's the worse outcome for them. A prosperous democracy on Chinese borders will act as an unwelcome focus on their oppressive dictatorship.

China is failing to control North Korea will have to accept the consequences of that failure. I agree with the US on this. The North Koreans are just too unpredictable and broken to let them get away with what they are doing. If any regime needs to be levelled then it’s the brutal North Koreans.

This missile stuff was already known in advance. Abe was in America when it took place. Korea can not shoot missiles into the air towards Japan or Hawaii. That is fact. I say this since the anti missile shoot downs were not in place in Tokyo at the time of these missile launches. I live here. This is all a game that America with Trump will stand side by side with Japan if Japan faces some military difficulty with China or North Korea. Most military and ex military know about the subs off Japans coast. They can and will shoot down any all missile coming out of North Korea whether it be 10 or 50 at a time. But sad to say,the north with them chems missiles will do in south Korea in a matter of minutes. So what do the Japanese and Americans do, so far , nothing. I just don't get it and I'm a former SAC and TAC military person.

originally posted by: paraphi
China needs to control North Korea. If they cannot then they need to step aside and allow for Korea to be reunified.

Of course a reunified Korea is not what China wants. That's the worse outcome for them. A prosperous democracy on Chinese borders will act as an unwelcome focus on their oppressive dictatorship.

China is failing to control North Korea will have to accept the consequences of that failure. I agree with the US on this. The North Koreans are just too unpredictable and broken to let them get away with what they are doing. If any regime needs to be levelled then it’s the brutal North Koreans.

That is a given. The question remains as to why China is so upset about having our new missile defense system in S Korea? Doesn't that strike anyone besides myself as an extremely odd stance? Unless of course the use of this system will uncover some serious wrong doing on the part of China.

originally posted by: musicismagic
This missile stuff was already known in advance. Abe was in America when it took place. Korea can not shoot missiles into the air towards Japan or Hawaii. That is fact. I say this since the anti missile shoot downs were not in place in Tokyo at the time of these missile launches. I live here. This is all a game that America with Trump will stand side by side with Japan if Japan faces some military difficulty with China or North Korea. Most military and ex military know about the subs off Japans coast. They can and will shoot down any all missile coming out of North Korea whether it be 10 or 50 at a time. But sad to say,the north with them chems missiles will do in south Korea in a matter of minutes. So what do the Japanese and Americans do, so far , nothing. I just don't get it and I'm a former SAC and TAC military person.

Agreed but what is it about the new missile system that has China's panties in a bunch?

a reply to: musicismagic

North Korea just landed 3 missiles in Japan's EEZ waters a couple days ago.

originally posted by: brutus61

originally posted by: paraphi
China needs to control North Korea. If they cannot then they need to step aside and allow for Korea to be reunified.

Of course a reunified Korea is not what China wants. That's the worse outcome for them. A prosperous democracy on Chinese borders will act as an unwelcome focus on their oppressive dictatorship.

China is failing to control North Korea will have to accept the consequences of that failure. I agree with the US on this. The North Koreans are just too unpredictable and broken to let them get away with what they are doing. If any regime needs to be levelled then it’s the brutal North Koreans.

That is a given. The question remains as to why China is so upset about having our new missile defense system in S Korea? Doesn't that strike anyone besides myself as an extremely odd stance? Unless of course the use of this system will uncover some serious wrong doing on the part of China.

Part of this is due to the new man made islands China has made. What is not being disclosed is the range. Those islands can be taken out and will be taken out. This is not a bow and arrow game these days. Those islands with all their "who knows what" is NO Match to the subs and the US Navy and what is going to be in place in South Korea and in Okinawa, yep, Okinawa.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: musicismagic

North Korea just landed 3 missiles in Japan's EEZ waters a couple days ago.

There are quotes of 4.

Been here long enough to know that the Japan Self Defense Force has been warned about all missile launches in the past. And since I don't live far from Iwakuni, this was all known and all political scare tactics. Anyway, the missiles were launches on the west side of North Korea, if the east side, of course the US Navy would have shot them down, no other choice, them missiles would have flown over Japan. Get my drift.

a reply to: musicismagic

4 were launched 3 landed inside the EEZ, I'm honestly not sure what happened with the 4th. The only way they would be shot down is if it was determined a land strike was imminent. These were allowed to hit the sea, meaning they weren't an imminent land strike threat.

Pyongyang stated they were test runs at US military bases in Japan. The fact that the US and Japan seem rather quiet about the logistics of these tests leads me to believe they were successful tests, which is kind of new for NK.

I haven't seen any info regarding the determination of where they were launched from, do you have a source showing they were fired from the western end of NK?

a reply to: brutus61

so its ok for us to have installations in their backyards but god forbid China or Russia could have an entire defense system based in Cuba.

originally posted by: Golantrevize
a reply to: brutus61

so its ok for us to have installations in their backyards but god forbid China or Russia could have an entire defense system based in Cuba.

Personally I think the entire world needs to grow up and stop killing each other over stupid snip like oil and such, but I realize I will not live to see that reality. With that said if China or Russia put a missile "defense" system in Cuba I would not be opposed.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: musicismagic

4 were launched 3 landed inside the EEZ, I'm honestly not sure what happened with the 4th. The only way they would be shot down is if it was determined a land strike was imminent. These were allowed to hit the sea, meaning they weren't an imminent land strike threat.

Pyongyang stated they were test runs at US military bases in Japan. The fact that the US and Japan seem rather quiet about the logistics of these tests leads me to believe they were successful tests, which is kind of new for NK.

I haven't seen any info regarding the determination of where they were launched from, do you have a source showing they were fired from the western end of NK?

Yes, it was shown on Japanese tv yesterday. The location was on the north west corner , kind of near the Chinese border.

originally posted by: paraphi
China needs to control North Korea. If they cannot then they need to step aside and allow for Korea to be reunified.

Of course a reunified Korea is not what China wants. That's the worse outcome for them. A prosperous democracy on Chinese borders will act as an unwelcome focus on their oppressive dictatorship.

China is failing to control North Korea will have to accept the consequences of that failure. I agree with the US on this. The North Koreans are just too unpredictable and broken to let them get away with what they are doing. If any regime needs to be levelled then it’s the brutal North Koreans.

Literally nobody wants a reunified Korea.

China doesn't want it, not because a reunified Korea would potentially be a democracy, but because it would likely be an eventual economic and military powerhouse supported by US military power. Not to mention the fact that they share a border and any collapse of the North Korean government would send millions of refugees into the country.

Japan doesn't want a reunified Korea for similar reasons to China. They would not like to compete with a reunified and powerful Korea.

The US doesn't want it because it would be a giant headache to oversee the transition process, complicate Asian politics and cost a lot of money.

South Korea doesn't want it because they don't want to reeducate 25 million people and modernise half the peninsula - spending a significant chunk of their own money while doing so. It could be economically ruinous in the short term, even if the eventual benefits outweigh the costs.

North Korea doesn't want it because they cannot survive a reunification.

In my personal opinion, many parties share responsibility for the worsening tension in the Korean peninsula. That goes for North Korea, South Korea, China and the USA.

originally posted by: daaskapital
Literally nobody wants a reunified Korea.

China doesn't want it, not because a reunified Korea would potentially be a democracy, but because it would likely be an eventual economic and military powerhouse supported by US military power.

Er, China does not want democracy and success on its borders.

A reunified Korea is inevitable as the North will eventually collapse. It will either be killed off, or die. Unless China intervenes and occupies, which is possible and with precedent, the natural inheritor of North Korea is the South. The unification of Korea is a political goal in South Korea with significant and overwhelming popular support.

Korean Gov website

Unification is Korea's national goal. We hope to bring an end to the tragic 70-year division and usher in a new era of a unified Korea where the happiness of all the Korean people is ensured.

Before we can say if this is a good or a bad thing, let’s take a look at a bit of history:

Korea has a very colorful history going back thousands of years. They had their own dynasty and kingdoms, slowly and gradually unifying under one ruler. In the 13th century there was the Mongol invasion of Korea. With the influx of the Europeans into Asia, like many countries they were wanting to remain isolationist. Internal strife, combined with China to the north, made things a bit rough for a while. It was in 1910 that Korea was first annexed by Japan. Following the end of World War II, the country was divided, into North Korea, that would be communist, and South Korea that would be more in accordance to the western ideas, laying the groundwork for the Korean conflict. In 1950, Kim il-Sung launched an attack in an attempt to reunify the country and bring all of it under communist rule. That lead to the conflict and brought in the UN and the United States into the conflict. For the first 2 months it looked like the south was going to lose, the UN, lead by the USA launched a counter offensive and were pushing the North Koreans back north, and were going full steam. China gave one warning, not to go beyond a certain point. The commanding general of the expeditionary forces ignored the warning and continued past the point, and China then got involved. In 1953 an armistice was signed. In reality the war never ended.

Policies were done to isolate the country of North Korea. And it has worked, however, there are countries that are working with North Korea and are supporting it. China has always been an ally of North Korea. Any dealings with North Korea, will need to have China present, and they may be giving the one warning that we should pay attention to. Having drills close to North Korea, that already has an itch trigger finger, in such a large scale, may be time to either scale it back, or move such to further south as to ease the tensions there. Maybe even holding such exercises else where, would also be a solution.

China does not want the breaking of the armistice, nor do they want a nuclear armed Korea. They are simply asking for more breathing and maneuvering room, to work towards having a more peaceful and prosperous neighbor and ally.

a reply to: brutus61

N. Korea has done this in the past, wanting concessions in exchange to stop something, like their nuke program, and never followed through on it. I dont see N. Korea following through on anything this time around either.

Plus people need to understand the Korean war never ended. All that i in place is a cease fire and nothing more.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
Before we can say if this is a good or a bad thing, let’s take a look at a bit of history:

Korea has a very colorful history going back thousands of years. They had their own dynasty and kingdoms, slowly and gradually unifying under one ruler. In the 13th century there was the Mongol invasion of Korea. With the influx of the Europeans into Asia, like many countries they were wanting to remain isolationist. Internal strife, combined with China to the north, made things a bit rough for a while. It was in 1910 that Korea was first annexed by Japan. Following the end of World War II, the country was divided, into North Korea, that would be communist, and South Korea that would be more in accordance to the western ideas, laying the groundwork for the Korean conflict. In 1950, Kim il-Sung launched an attack in an attempt to reunify the country and bring all of it under communist rule. That lead to the conflict and brought in the UN and the United States into the conflict. For the first 2 months it looked like the south was going to lose, the UN, lead by the USA launched a counter offensive and were pushing the North Koreans back north, and were going full steam. China gave one warning, not to go beyond a certain point. The commanding general of the expeditionary forces ignored the warning and continued past the point, and China then got involved. In 1953 an armistice was signed. In reality the war never ended.

Policies were done to isolate the country of North Korea. And it has worked, however, there are countries that are working with North Korea and are supporting it. China has always been an ally of North Korea. Any dealings with North Korea, will need to have China present, and they may be giving the one warning that we should pay attention to. Having drills close to North Korea, that already has an itch trigger finger, in such a large scale, may be time to either scale it back, or move such to further south as to ease the tensions there. Maybe even holding such exercises else where, would also be a solution.

China does not want the breaking of the armistice, nor do they want a nuclear armed Korea. They are simply asking for more breathing and maneuvering room, to work towards having a more peaceful and prosperous neighbor and ally.

All true I just wonder about China's stance on missile defense systems. That seems a bit odd to me. Especially since we have some systems in place for decades. What is so unique about this particular system that would have China denouncing it?

originally posted by: brutus61
China is suggesting that if we suspend our drills in S Korea they will get N Korea to end their missile program. One major point they make is the fact they don't like our missile defense system so close to home.

Washington and Seoul say the system is defensive and not meant to be a threat to Beijing. China is opposed to the system, saying it would allow U.S. radar to peer deep into its territory and monitor its flights and missile launches.

I find this reaction by China to be very interesting. What is the problem with monitoring missile test if nothing nefarious is taking place. Agreeing to suspend the training exercises(that have been going on for decades) in exchange for disarming N Korea's missile program does not sound terrible, however, I would leave the missile defense systems right where they are. I would also require all missiles and production facilities to be dismantled and shipped out of N Korea. China's reaction to the missile defense system seems to be the key to them stepping up and putting pressure on N Korea. I wonder why? What say you fellow ATSers?

link

I think that the Chinese have seen this as an opportunity to have as a bargaining chip and that seems to be the way theyre rolling at the moment..

originally posted by: brutus61
China is suggesting that if we suspend our drills in S Korea they will get N Korea to end their missile program. One major point they make is the fact they don't like our missile defense system so close to home.

Washington and Seoul say the system is defensive and not meant to be a threat to Beijing. China is opposed to the system, saying it would allow U.S. radar to peer deep into its territory and monitor its flights and missile launches.

I find this reaction by China to be very interesting. What is the problem with monitoring missile test if nothing nefarious is taking place. Agreeing to suspend the training exercises(that have been going on for decades) in exchange for disarming N Korea's missile program does not sound terrible, however, I would leave the missile defense systems right where they are. I would also require all missiles and production facilities to be dismantled and shipped out of N Korea. China's reaction to the missile defense system seems to be the key to them stepping up and putting pressure on N Korea. I wonder why? What say you fellow ATSers?

link

I think that the Chinese have seen this as an opportunity to have as a bargaining chip and that seems to be the way theyre rolling at the moment..

China would love that.

# China.