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Minority youths to get softer sentences in the UK.

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posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Just as well that is not what is happening then.




posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:12 PM
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Jean Valjean.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: crazyewok

Holding ethnic minorities to lower standards, especially when it comes to law, is discrimination par excellence.


But some people on this thread think that we are somehow bad people in a post brexit-Trump world.

In other words, if you don't think courts should use race as a facotr for sentencing, you must be a racist!

What a refreshing new twist coming from the left!



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Grambler

If they where discriminated against because of any of these things it should be taken into account. The guidelines confirm this.

No one is arguing for harsher sentences based on colour.


Then the guildeliune would not mention race, it would mention personal abuse.

Why would it matter if someone had been abused based on race or weight for example. Yet weight wasn't specifically mentioned. Why not?

You can spin this all you want. The fact is this will be used for people to say minoruties have it harder, and therefore they should have a lessor sentence.

This is racism.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: crazyewok

Holding ethnic minorities to lower standards, especially when it comes to law, is discrimination par excellence.


But some people on this thread think that we are somehow bad people in a post brexit-Trump world.

In other words, if you don't think courts should use race as a facotr for sentencing, you must be a racist!

What a refreshing new twist coming from the left!


Then they believe in pseudoscience. People commit crimes because they choose to. Despite what the article says, there are no other factors.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

No other factors in under 18 crime?



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

The guidelines mention a large array of factors.

They also recognise that under some circumstances children of minorities do have it harder.

Does not mean they are arguing for sentences based on race.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot




No other factors in under 18 crime?


In any crime.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:40 PM
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"The guideline therefore looks with far greater detail at what kind of sentence would prevent this based on the age, background and circumstances of each child or young person, so that it can help them reintegrate instead of becoming alienated further."


seems like they are trying to solve the problem long term

where did you get that headline? the original article headline is ...Young offender backgrounds to be considered by judges

I guess they don't have for profit prisons

suckers !!!



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

So do you believe 11 year olds should be able to vote, drink alcohol, serve in the military?



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot




So do you believe 11 year olds should be able to vote, drink alcohol, serve in the military?


No. I also don't believe they should commit crime.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

No but they are clearly not fully formed adults and other factors will influence their behaviour.

Thankfully our legal system has a slightly more sophisticated world view and recognises that people are not computers and will be influenced by external factors. This is particularly but not exclusively true for under 18s.
edit on 7-3-2017 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 03:57 PM
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This is meaningless, really

Show us a case where any minority in the UK got a lesser sentence or punishment than a native when they both committed the same crime and I'll be the first to open my big fat gob.

Until there it's just some quote made by some random person I dunno anything about.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot




No but they are clearly not fully formed adults and other factors will influence their behaviour.

Thankfully our legal system has a slightly more sophisticated world view and recognises that people are not computers and will be influenced by external factors. This is particularly but not exclusively true for under 18s.


What evidence do you have that under 18s commit crime due to discrimination?



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Discrimination does not cause crime. It is one factor out of many that have an influence on people's life opportunities and choices.

The guidelines just say to take such things into account. This isn't even new, it is just confirming what judges already do.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Colour and creed aside our gaols are chock full of full blown idiots that should not be there anyway.

Sometimes some of the halls occupants resemble care in the community candidates rather than actual criminals.

Fact is justice in this nation is a commodity these days, half of the Muppets in the system require metal health care not incarceration.
edit on 7-3-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 04:28 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ScepticScot




No other factors in under 18 crime?


In any crime.


You are absolutely right here. The law should be equally applied to everyone, else "Justice would not be blind". That what makes the law the law.

Focus on things like race is especially insidious. It is a bigotry of low expectations. I chose to veiw those of a different race than me as every bit as capable as me in every way. Why must some (ironically usually well off white people) view minorities race as a curse?

But lets take the idea of mitigating factors like this to the next level.

If these factors can be used to inform sentencing for perpetrators, then why not look at the victims race and all sorts of other factors.

Court will be so fun! A gay black man robs a transgender disabled wiccan, so bring out the calculator and add up the oppression points!

Now if you have the misfortune of being a straight white man who is beaten to a pulp by a minority that had a difficult life, you need to just shut up and understand your privilege, and how the person who beat you really wasn't at fault as much as a white person who may have beat you would be because their race helped make them do that to you.

I can not believe that people think if you chose to "judge a person by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin" you are somehow being a racist. Truly Orwellian doublespeak!



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Justice is not blind through, fact is a decent solicitor can make the world of a difference not only to the outcome of the case, but also regarding any sentence handed out down to working out a deal with the procurator fiscal/crown prosecutor should you be deemed guilty or come to an arrangement(plead to lesser charges generally).

Colour should not come into it, but i will tell you what does, that would be monies and means.

Sad but true.

edit on 7-3-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Grambler

Justice is not blind through, fact is a decent solicitor can make the world of a difference not only to the outcome of the case, but also regarding any sentence handed out down to working out a deal with the procurator fiscal/crown prosecutor should you be deemed guilty or come to an arrangement(plead to lesser charges generally).

Colour should not come into it, but i will tell you what does, that would be monies and means.

Sad but true.


Sure I agree. So we work to make the system better.

Sentencing guidelines that take in to account things like race are a step in the wrong direction.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

To be honest Grambler, imho, our Judges and sheriffs seem more interested in whether not you have a job, fixed abode and can pay any fines issued these days rather than the colour of the criminal. Our gaols however are chock a block with all sorts.

But i whole heatedly agree race should in no way dictate anything. People are People unless they are poor, then TPTB are apt to enter them into the system one way or the other.



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