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What if Obama didn't order surveillance on Trump, but tried to and was shut down

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posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:00 PM
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a reply to: conscientiousobserver

That would be very laughable. That makes it likely.




posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:01 PM
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originally posted by: conscientiousobserver
a reply to: Grambler

If there were any Fisa requests they were a result of the dossier given to the FBI by Steele. Obama would have had nothing to directly do with that.


No FISA gets asked for without the President's admin looking at it. The President's cabinet member the Attorney General to be specific.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:02 PM
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If Trump did get wiretapped or was under surveillance of some sort, it was due to his Russian ties, not due to the fact that he was Obama's political opponent. In addition, it would have been entirely legal and within reason, even a matter of national security. Here is an article I read detailing the FISA warrant that was granted the FBI.


In June, when the first FISA warrant was denied, the FBI was reportedly alarmed at Carter Page’s trip to Moscow and meetings with Russian officials, one week before the DNC was hacked. Counter intelligence agencies later reported to both Presidential candidates that Russia had carried out this hack; Donald Trump said publicly in the third debate that ‘our country has no idea’ if Russia did the hacking. The discovery of the Trump Tower private Russian server, however, communicating with Alfa Bank, changed matters, sources report.

To further complicate the story, the FISA warrant was allegedly granted in part because of the involvement of Vladimir Putin’s own daughters. One is married to a senior official at Gazprom, where Carter Page and Paul Manafort reportedly have holdings; another to Kirill Shamalov, a banking official. The fact that the alleged warrant was a FISA warrant is itself significant. The court exists to grant warrants to examine cases concerned with Foreign Intelligence.


FBI Granted FISA Warrant Covering Trump's Ties to Russia

Should we not investigate the Trump team's Russian ties? I think it goes deeper than we know. In order to get the FISA warrant there had to be a legitimate reason or it would not have been granted.
edit on 06pmMon, 06 Mar 2017 22:07:20 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

What Russian ties? Everyone has ties to Russia. Heck even you do. Believe it or not.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:11 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler


It has been admitted that this request included Trump or at least his team specifically. Fisa courts are designed to protect from foreign threats. Things such as election fraud would not apply.

This means that people in Obamas admin knowingly tried to overeach and get a Fisa warrant ion Trump for an area where it wasn't appropriate.


Your conclusion is incorrect. First of all, election fraud does apply if it is done by a foreign agent. Second of all, if Trump and his team were working with Russia, that would be the reason for the FISA warrant. Therefore - it was not inappropriate and it was also not overreaching.

If we open this can of worms and investigate exactly what kind of surveillance was done on Trump and his team, we sure as hell also investigate why it was done, and this will probably be damning for Trump.
edit on 06pmMon, 06 Mar 2017 22:13:03 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:18 PM
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a reply to: Berns4


In June, when the first FISA warrant was denied, the FBI was reportedly alarmed at Carter Page’s trip to Moscow and meetings with Russian officials, one week before the DNC was hacked. Counter-intelligence agencies later reported to both Presidential candidates that Russia had carried out this hack;


Trump and his election team also had business deals with Russia. Trump calls for Russia to hack into Hillary's e-mails, Russia does some hacking, and then Trump decides he will look the other way on their invasion of Ukraine.

Things like this happened. A lot of them. And Russia was actively working to help get Trump elected. Trust me, I'm not that connected to Russia.
edit on 06pmMon, 06 Mar 2017 22:24:08 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:18 PM
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originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: Grambler


It has been admitted that this request included Trump or at least his team specifically. Fisa courts are designed to protect from foreign threats. Things such as election fraud would not apply.

This means that people in Obamas admin knowingly tried to overeach and get a Fisa warrant ion Trump for an area where it wasn't appropriate.


Your conclusion is incorrect. First of all, election fraud does apply if it is done by a foreign agent. Second of all, if Trump and his team were working with Russia, that would be the reason for the FISA warrant. Therefore - it was not inappropriate and it was also not overreaching.

If we open this can of worms and investigate exactly what kind of surveillance was done on Trump and his team, we sure as hell also investigate why it was done, and this will probably be damning for Trump.


If it wasn't overeach, then why did the Fisa court reject the request that named Trump? ony the 13th time out of over 33,000 requests.

And even clapper says they have zero evidence that Trump did anything illegal with Russians.

And if was just about finding the truth, why did Obama try to spread the info to every agency? Fisa documents are supposed to be highly classified as the article in my OP shows, so why would he unintentionally lower the classification of these findings? Why jeopardize the investigation just to make Trump look bad and make it easier for leaks to come out.

And lastly, there are accusations that Obama, Hillary, Schumer, Pelosi, Ellisoon, and many other dems have met with hostile groups like etremist muslim groups, russis, etc. So would you be ok with Trump surveilling all of them, then making all dirt available to all agencies and having the media get leaks that makes all of them look bad? I suspect you would not.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

Care to explain why Russia would prefer Trump over Clinton?

edit on 6-3-2017 by Berns4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Berns4

They obviously did, or they would not have released damaging emails they obtained from hacking the DNC and possibly John Podesta. If Russia preferred Clinton, they would have released damaging information about Trump (they also hacked the RNC). Anyway, it is common knowledge that Putin hates Hillary and likes Trump. Here is an article.

Why Vladamir Putin's Russia is Backing Donald Trump - Newsweek

Putin likes Trump because he is willing to look the other way as Russia invades Ukraine, he is willing to lift sanctions on Russia, and he wants to weaken the U.S. alliances with other nations, both trade and military alliances. Trump is willing to do this. Putin doesn't like globalism. There are probably more reasons that I am not aware of.

In addition to this, Hillary Clinton is anti-Russian and would, by contrast, make a headache for Putin.

There are also some conspiracy theories involving Trump and Russia that involve Russia funneling money to his campaign, which would mean they might expect something in return. In addition, there are conspiracy theories that Russia has compromising information on Trump and is blackmailing him. None of this is proven, but it is out there.
edit on 06pmMon, 06 Mar 2017 22:34:22 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

Newsweek is the same source that had Hillary win the election before the election day. Fact is, there is no evidence Russia hacked John Podesta. You think anyone would be able to hack a simple gmail account. You'd be right. Even I can hack it.

www.washingtontimes.com...
edit on 6-3-2017 by Berns4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: Berns4
a reply to: darkbake

Care to explain why Russia would prefer Trump over Clinton?


Ummm Because Clinton is a low down, dirty rotten, scumbag who probably made a deal with Putin and then reneged. Only reason I could think of.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: Berns4

I did some research and one expert who analyzed the hacks has this to say.


It is pretty clear judging by the indicators of compromise [IOCs]. The binaries that were used to hack the DNC as well as Podesta’s email as well as some other Democratic campaign folks, those IOCs match binaries and also infrastructure that was used in attacks that were previously recorded by others as having Russian origin. That much we can confirm. So if you believe other people’s—primarily government’s—attribution that those previous attacks were Russian, then these attacks are definitely connected. We’re talking about the same binaries, the same tools, the same infrastructure.


Cybersecurity Expert: Proof Russia Behind DNC, Podesta Hacks

It would be hard to hack Podesta's Gmail account and leave a digital fingerprint that matches one of Russian origin.
edit on 06pmMon, 06 Mar 2017 22:50:01 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

If a Russian were to hack John Podesta, he can do it anywhere in the world. He would not do it in Russia where it can trace to there. Short of capturing a hacker and have him confess, I don't think you can conclude a Russian hacked John Podesta.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: Berns4

I hate how this question has to be asked in the first place and I have to wonder how these people got it in their brains about some type of Russian/GOP alliance. First off, during the election, the polls didn't show the leak emails effecting Hillary's poll numbers. Only minimally they might drop for a while and return to normal. It also turns out the polls predicted the PV closely, just not the popular votes that matter(the individual states).
There were reports that the RNC had attempts made to hack them but they failed so it is not like the hacks were made in biased attempts to help one side. The truth is Putin didn't care who became the POTUS, he only wanted to cause chaos in the election and weaken the unity of the USA.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: GAB4754

This I agree. Russia is politically united in lockstep. America is politically divided. What Russia aims for is a civil war in America so Russia can invade and take over after the civil war.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 11:22 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Greven

You've listed a lot of things as facts, without any evidence to back them up.

Do so.


Can you list them?


You... can't tell what you wrote that was an assertion?

Three in three sentences:
"There was apparently a Fisa request in June that listed Trump or at least his team as people to be surveilled for alleged connections to Russia. The Fisa court turned this down.Then in October, another Fisa court request was accepted that did not list Trump."

Two more in one:
"We also know that Obama encouraged keeping the intelligence about Trump at as low as classification level as possible and encouraged it to be shared among all agencies (something that seems unprecedented"

There are more. Read your own post.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 11:32 PM
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a reply to: TinfoilTP

They all most likely did know about it but it needed to be proven and it's not like Obama broke the law by directly issuing the wiretaps himself. IF recent reports are true the FBI went through the proper channels to obtain the wire taps. No unethical behavior required.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 11:36 PM
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a reply to: Berns4


They have already invaded the white house and are trying to take America over. No need for a single pair of Russian boots on American soil. Just a gold robe and slippers.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: Berns4


ooo ooo I know I know.. It's because Hillary would not have lifted the sanctions on Russia. Sanctions that are currently stopping Exxon mobil from giving Russia $500 billion in order to drill their artic territories.

The GOP is basically the mouthpiece for the oil companies....

AAAnnndd I don't know maybe I should mention the real guy that needs to be investigated Rex Tillerson the CEO of Exxon mobil. Who left the position to become our secretary of state. Most likely to make sure those pesky sanctions were lifted.



posted on Mar, 7 2017 @ 12:24 AM
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It is quite obvious Russia witch hunt was Manufactured to add to the FISA warrant granted

They found nothing and continued the serveilance on there political opponent

Hillary even tweeted within the same week of the FISA warrant being granted, that computer science guys had found a covert server linking the Trump organisation to a Russian based bank

So clearly Hillary had access to all this

IMO, it was when Trump started asking Russia at his rallies to hack the DNC and Clinton which got the FISA warrant accepted

However any sane person knows Trump isn't a Russian agent or colluding with Russia

This is what people fail to grasp

Globalists don't like Russia because they're a hole in the road of the globalist NWO agenda

Trump is also a big hole in the road for the Globalist agenda because he is a traditionalist patriotic and doesn't want a global America

Trump respects Putin for this very reason, and that is the only Trump Russia connection, political and ideological

The globalists essentially hung themselves on immigration policy's

There intention was to change political demographics by watering done nationalism with multicultulism

Once rid of nationalism, nobody will oppose a one world government




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