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What if Obama didn't order surveillance on Trump, but tried to and was shut down

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posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:01 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: syrinx high priest

originally posted by: Grambler


If that were the case, why have we yet to see even one piece of evidence that Trump did something wrong. .


Why would we if the committee just got the first raw data today?



What committee? So far we have had tons of leaks, yet nothing remotely showing Trump did anything wrong. Why would the leakers leak info on Flynn or sessions but not Trump if they have the goods? They already have the info on Trumps conversations (unless they are still surveilling Trump) so why would these "noble" leakers hold on to evidence that shows he committed treason.

Again, Clapper would have had access to all of the evidence, and he says there is zero evidence.



I think they know trump and Russia. Intelligence made a deal, but don't have proof.

They have all the players involved in communication with benefits for both sides already being realized...but thy don't have the smoking gun testimony or tape of their communications.

They know Russia hacked the dnc.

They know trumps only change to the GOP platform was not using military force in Ukraine.

We know Flynn got fired for telling Russia they were gonna drop sanctions.

We know Sessions lied about meeting them..

Why even meet when the whole world is swarming with rumors.




posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I think Trump kicked over a huge can of worms and everyone (literally everyone) is jiggling their car keys and saying, "Oooh look! something shiny!" to avoid discussing this aspect.

We do know they did tap general Flynn as resulted by the leaks provided that got him fired.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:13 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox


a reply to: Grambler

If I'm right every one of your "we know"s was from one ANONYMOUS source that not only hasn't been verified, but has been shot down by the CIA.


We absolutely know Obama changed rules to allow info about Trump and Russians to be spread between agencies.

There seems to be some questions about the october Fisa requests and if it happened.

However, there are multiple sources that have claimed the June Fisa requests occured. But I will agree that those claims do come from anonymous sources. Not many people are claiming that it didn't happen though.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:22 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
he was apparently on the first FISA application


Yes exactly. This shows the Obama admin at the very least ATTEMPTED to surveill Trump. This abuse of a sitting president attempting to use agencies to spy on his political opponents is outrageous and needs to be called out or we risk it happening again.


Hes the 1st Black Guy so he can do whatever he wants and get away with it. Now if it were Bush they would be calling for impeachment.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:24 PM
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If...

There's a way to find out the if's.

Trump just has to ask.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:27 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
If...

There's a way to find out the if's.

Trump just has to ask.


Perhaps he will. Perhaps he wants an investigation to see how deep it goes.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I posted Georges part 2 on the main tweet thread but Georges part 3 has some yummy extra stuff ...



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

And he had to tweet about it?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:38 PM
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originally posted by: syrinx high priest
he was apparently on the first FISA application


Which makes the Obama admin guilty as sin.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler

And he had to tweet about it?


I am not sure what I think about the tweet.

I am 90% in agreement with you that tweeting about it was dumb. But I have also criticized many of Trumps other tweets, so this is nothing new.

However, its clear that the main stream media, many of which had reported on these Fisa requests aand wiretapping were not going to question a sitting president spying or attempting to spy on a poltyical opponent. So Trump took it staright to the people.

Maybe not the smartest move. But it does not change the fact that we know that Obamas admin at least attempoted to use the Fisa court to spy on a political opponent. This is outrageous, and makes Obama far worse than Trump for just being a loud mouth.

Even the attempt by Obama makes this almsot as serious as watergate if not worse. Especially given that Obama made thge info accessible to many agencies, and there have been so many convenient leaks to help the dems.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:42 PM
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a reply to: Grambler




Maybe not the smartest move. But it does not change the fact that we know that Obamas admin at least attempoted to use the Fisa court to spy on a political opponent.

We know that there is an unnamed source who says that the director of the CIA had received information about possible illegal activities from two Russian banks and that he sought permission to pursue the case. Such a request would not allow Trump to be wiretapped.


edit on 3/6/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: Phage

To bring attention to it?
You know what would be the best case scenario for Trump? Obama DID try to get put in a FISA request and was denied showing Obama was trying to "spy" on Trump. But there was no second request so Trump was wrong on being "wiretapped". This would show not only an overreach by Obama and create a huge scandal but also put to rest the Trump-Russia bogus fake-news.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler

And he had to tweet about it?


I'm glad he did.
He took his concerns directly to the people without the MSM getting in front of it.
That's how it should work.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

If there were any Fisa requests they were a result of the dossier given to the FBI by Steele. Obama would have had nothing to directly do with that.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: GAB4754

The worst and most likely scenario? The FBI put in the Fisa requests based on the dossier given to them by Steele.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Kali74
If...

There's a way to find out the if's.

Trump just has to ask.


Perhaps he will. Perhaps he wants an investigation to see how deep it goes.


That's absurd. He can just look and see how deep it goes. This is literally the easiest scandal to get to the bottom of. Someone has to have told Trump by now that all he has to do is tell the FBI he wants all the pertinent files on his desk and poof they will be there.

Why isn't he?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler




Maybe not the smartest move. But it does not change the fact that we know that Obamas admin at least attempoted to use the Fisa court to spy on a political opponent.

We know that there is an unnamed source who says that the director of the CIA had received information about possible illegal activities from two Russian banks and that he sought permission to pursue the case. Such a request would not allow Trump to be wiretapped.



We also know that a Fisa warrant was sought in June that listed Trump or his team. This would have allowed surveillance and possibly wiretapping on all those named in the warrant. However, the court took the nearly unprecedented stance of rejecting it because the evidence was so thin, making it only the 13th time out of 33,000 that is has happened.


Contrary to earlier reporting in the New York Times, which cited FBI sources as saying that the agency did not believe that the private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower which was connected to a Russian bank had any nefarious purpose, the FBI’s counter-intelligence arm, sources say, re-drew an earlier FISA court request around possible financial and banking offenses related to the server. The first request, which, sources say, named Trump, was denied back in June, but the second was drawn more narrowly and was granted in October after evidence was presented of a server, possibly related to the Trump campaign, and its alleged links to two banks; SVB Bank and Russia’s Alfa Bank. While the Times story speaks of metadata, sources suggest that a FISA warrant was granted to look at the full content of emails and other related documents that may concern US persons.


We also know that regardless of who brought that case, (the above article says the FBI) the are beholden to the President. We also know that Obama changed rules to share this info with as many agencies as possible, proving he knew of it.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

It is clear that Trump has come across information that implicates "wiretapping", and tweeted about it. Whether he is conflating actors within the government with the Obama administration, and the Obama administration with Obama, that remains to be seen, but it is obvious Trump has come across evidence. I cannot see what else it could be unless we are willing to attribute motive and assume intentions, giving up fairness and benefit of the doubt for base cynicism.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:57 PM
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originally posted by: conscientiousobserver
a reply to: Grambler

If there were any Fisa requests they were a result of the dossier given to the FBI by Steele. Obama would have had nothing to directly do with that.


You mean the foreign spy the FBI and DNC paid to investigate Trump. That in itself is a scandal.

And no matter how you spin it, Obama would have known about the request, and could have stopped it if he wanted. Instead he chose to make all info on Trump and Russia available to all agencies, and now we haev mysterious leaks.

When US citizen and journalist James Rosen was surveilled, is Obama also not responsible for that?

Let me guess, he probably heard ir for the first time when he read about it in the paper. Waht a President! All of the agencies doing these unethical things without his knowledge, meanwhile he was Mr. Clean who did no wrong.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 08:59 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Kali74
If...

There's a way to find out the if's.

Trump just has to ask.


Perhaps he will. Perhaps he wants an investigation to see how deep it goes.


That's absurd. He can just look and see how deep it goes. This is literally the easiest scandal to get to the bottom of. Someone has to have told Trump by now that all he has to do is tell the FBI he wants all the pertinent files on his desk and poof they will be there.

Why isn't he?


I don't know. I would want him to.

But maybe he feels there was illegal wiretapping and so he wants an investigation to get to the bottom of it. Maybe he wants his enemies to look like fools for calling him a liar and feigning ignorance (like the New York Times).




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