Child porn case dropped to prevent FBI disclosure

a reply to: seasonal

This makes me think of a video that was doing the rounds a little while back, of Ashton Kutcher addressing some committee or other, about his efforts to help prevent human trafficking, slavery and the sexual exploitation of children.

Its in relation to this story.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Apparently he is the Co-Founder of a company that builds software which makes it easier to identify key players in human trafficking, from customers to sellers and everything in between. I am unsure as to how this software goes about this, and Mr Kutcher was quite coy about answering any questions which might give a target of the software some idea how it works. Apparently it works, even when the person they are looking to identify is using a TOR browser.

Now, I am not particularly tech savvy when it comes to the deeper structure of things like the internet, and the precise function of TOR or anything like that. But this would seem to be the sort of tool that probably existed already in the cyberwarfare division of the US or its allies. Am I wrong?

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: tikbalang

Why would the mob get involved with this? Or is this just thinking out loud on the key board?

I think he means mob as in "bunch of people" or more apt "lynchmob" not as in "mafia"

Farmers and pitchforks seems to fit his world view lol.

Ty for posting OP

a reply to: TrueBrit

Either we catch and prosecute, or why catch?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: seasonal

The fbi doesn't want to reveal that there are no boundaries to their access of your tech devices.

This. No protection racket. No coverup. It's pure and simple "protecting" their "sources and methods." Just like sometimes the intelligence community doesn't take action on intelligence because acting on it risks revealing how they got the information, the FBI isn't willing to go into court and talk about how easily they can, and do, build cases like this. If the cost of that is somebody goes free and they (the bureau) get to keep their methods in place? So be it.

So be it?

A known pedo walks free because they don't want to let the public know the extent to which they're spying on us.

Brutal.

a reply to: Shamrock6

If what you say is true, there are another 200 people that can use the same defense.

What is the point? To arrest the guy who ran Play Pen and let the pedo users walk?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: seasonal

The fbi doesn't want to reveal that there are no boundaries to their access of your tech devices.

They don't have to access your equipment. All they have to do is go through your ISP provider to see what sites you have visited. Most ISP have rules regarding accessing illegal material. But many people not involved in law enforcement are unfamiliar with the law. Or don't take time to read tedious ISP provider rules.

But this guy was going above and beyond the call of ignorance of the law. Far beyond a temporary curiosity and a temporary ignorance of the law. Distribution or purchasing illegal material is above and beyond the call of stupid.

a reply to: seasonal

Well, precisely.

I think the only benefit to catching a person without successfully prosecuting them for the crimes they have committed, is to put the fear of God into them. The reason I say that is as follows. If the government can do it, the chances are that there are citizens out there who have the capability to one day develop homespun solutions which provide them similar levels of access to systems and information held within those systems. Without naming any names, or going into any detail, I have a friend whose tech savvy is such that if he chose to do so, he could move through cyberspace without leaving a single tiny trace for someone to pick up on, can run machines that upon shut down (using methods I do not understand) totally forget where they have been, what they have done. This leads me to believe that out there, somewhere, there are also people who know how to find any data, anywhere, and chase it till it hits a place they can pin point.

All it would take for someone who has already been named, caught for such a crime, to be located by a sufficiently motivated and capable person, and their life, not their liberty, but their flesh and blood would be in significant peril. And think about this. Back in the day, the only people who had access to TOR, were military figures, intelligence users. Now access to it is available to anyone who wants it for some reason. How long, therefore, do you think it will take before access to more sophisticated data tracking and investigative tools, becomes near ubiquitous, anyone who has the knowledge to use it, having access?

These... individuals, these perverts... they believe themselves to be predators, to be high on the food chain. But the way of things is that with the passage of time, the tools they use will become so widely understood that they will become prey, not just for governments and law enforcement entities, but for private citizens.

a reply to: seasonal

I can actually see why the FBI would not reveal how they got the identity of this person. If it became public, then others would not fall for whatever they did.

It could have been as simple as sending an email to some address, then checking the headers of the return. But if people knew that, then no one would ever reply to an email again.

But, it could be that they are using some of CIA's non-warrant invasive spy tricks, which would also be concerning to the public. And if it is illegal, they could not reveal this either.

It's really sad that they did not have enough evidence to convict this guy without this bit of information. At least they know who he is now. I am sure they will find some other way to catch him next time, because these guys are so addicted that I doubt he will stop.

while its my opinion that :

no punishment is too cruel or to unusual for peadophiles

" mob // vigelanti " justice " directed at people who are UNCONVICTED is utterly reprehensible

if i ran the world - convicted peadophiles would be automatically re-tried in another country with a stellar human rights record

and if the conviction is confirmed - death - by methods that even describing viotates the ATC terms and conditions

if the second country - does not convict - prison - with the std right of appeal

but i digress

if we have vigelanti " justice " for alledged peadiophiles - where do you stop ????

sure no one will defend peadohiles - but onece you open the floodgates - you will have folks who think its ok to kill people who put pineapple on piazza

its a slippery slope

Oh yeah, they got the technology to stop every child pornographer, human trafficker, or anything they want in the whole world. But they can never disclose the tech, so it will never be put to use in this way... except maybe in special cases where a secondary method, plausible in a courtroom, could be used as a substitute for the discovery phase of trial.

For example, maybe this could be something similar to what might happen... So they really wanna bust someone, they got a warrant to plant listening devices, but security is too tight to physically break in and plant bugs. So they use a hi tech gadjet to get the information they need (the criminal verbally admitting to the crime, in this case), record it on tape, and say you got it from the bugs you planted (which haven't been planted yet), then during/soon after the commotion of the raid, you have access to the building and you plant the bugs, completing the illusion you got the recording by conventional, legal, by the book means. Good old fashioned policework. *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

Thats for illegally obtaining audio surveillance. There are methods that could possibly work for other information types. Maybe you could use some technology to visually see where a person was hiding illegal items in their home, and then coach an informant to say hes the one who told you the criminal kept his illegal porn stash under a hidden panel in the floor under his bed, and use him to testify in court (probably in exchange for a lighter sentence or if the CI is not a criminal with any current charges, maybe a reward, so either way they would be willing to perjur themselves or maybe they are an undercover agent so they want the bust on their jacket)


Or just use their own information which you obtained illegally against them. Maybe you have a child porn ring and you believe you have identified one of the key players, but you can't really afford to watch this guy 24/7 and after 2 weeks of constant surveillance outside his house, you still don't have a case, and you have no idea when or where they have their real world physical data exchange meetings (safest way to exchange data, it cant be intercepted online if you exchange thumb drives in person and use a pc not connected to the web for viewing the "media", at least i think thats how they did it on SVU, real life meetings but no real names or something like that) and your budget for watching this guy is about done, and your boss is starting to think you have no case and maybe this "pedo ring"" doesn't exist, or they went underground after getting spooked by sloppy surveillance.

So, you have your NSA buddy illegally hack into all of his files, even his "non online" PC using exotic tech. You find the meeting info after breaking open supposedly "unbreakable" encrypted files. Now you have an agent do surveillance on the guy, but you know what day to watch him. After agreeing with your boss to "back off" this suspect, with the understanding you will check up on him every so often, then the day you "check on him" next, just happens to be the day of the meeting, what luck! The surveillance team observes the suspect travel to a motel outside town, where a number of other vehicles are parked. After running their plates with HQ, there's a mighty good many sex offenders at this location, some are even breaking the conditions of their parole by being here right now, it turns out.

When you tell the boss, he pats you on the back, tells you good job, and promotes you, giving you full discretion to pursue this case, with a near unlimited budget.

"Just one thing" he says. "I have to know... How in the H-E-Double-Hockeysticks did you know which day to put surveillance on this creep??"

*shrugs* "Well, it's like you always say, Chief, all those extra training sessions and educational courses that all the rookies hate, which you made mandatory, they will really hone your instincts! I think they're starting to pay off. *big smile*

"Atta boy, Dawson! I knew once you had matured enough, youd start to see the value in a rigorous training regimen! You know what they say, "Early to bed, and early to rise..."

"Yes, Sir!" (Jackass... I really solved this case because my fraternity brother from skull n bones works at the NSA. I HATE training!!!)