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I am not the sharpest knife in the cupboard...

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posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Trading of arms for hostages happened, the hair brained idea that Reagan had cut the deal to delay any hostage releases until after the election, however, is pure CT nonsense.




posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Trading of arms for hostages happened, the hair brained idea that Reagan had cut the deal to delay any hostage releases until after the election, however, is pure CT nonsense.

Well like I told Kandinsky, I'm not disputing the age of CT's. I'm saying that the modern era has used the internet to weaponize them.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t



I know that hte idea of CT's dates back forever, but the big difference I'm getting at with today is that today they've been weaponized as political tools to beat the opposition with and discredit them.


I think they've always been 'weaponised.' It's why they exist.

Maybe the difference today is access and control of media? Perhaps they're more successful and effective because they're in front of all our faces all the time? Moreover, the guys who sharpen these 'weapons' are way better than they ever were and have learnt from at least 150 years of conspiracy.

It scares the crap out of me.



It is easier to trip a politician up and put them on defensive by accusing them of a wild CT instead of attacking their policies.


It'd help if they didn't subscribe to the CTs too.

In many ways, we're better at recognising propaganda and yet still susceptible to it. It's ridiculous that we're still doing it and dreaming of honest politicians that, collectively, we'd never vote for.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Kandinsky

What annoys me is that many who make this observation tend to lump even the people who are arguing with the partisans as equally partisan.


That often happens when the person claiming to be nonpartisan has a long track record of only taking one party's side on virtually every discussion they involve themselves in...



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Krazysh0t
I think they've always been 'weaponised.' It's why they exist.

Maybe the difference today is access and control of media? Perhaps they're more successful and effective because they're in front of all our faces all the time? Moreover, the guys who sharpen these 'weapons' are way better than they ever were and have learnt from at least 150 years of conspiracy.

It scares the crap out of me.

I couldn't begin to tell you all the angles that come together to make the present situation a reality. I just see the weaponization of CT's by our media (alternative and mainstream; though in this day and age I don't really believe in the alternative media anymore it's all mainstream).


It'd help if they didn't subscribe to the CTs too.

In many ways, we're better at recognising propaganda and yet still susceptible to it. It's ridiculous that we're still doing it and dreaming of honest politicians that, collectively, we'd never vote for.

Yeah politicians are the same as they've ever been but we expect so much more of them and hold it against them when they screw up like humans. One thing we need to do is be willing to forgive mistakes made by politicians more readily. Not EVERY mistake/gaffe is part of some sinister conspiracy theory to steal our rights from us.

It drives me nuts every time a major event happens in the world and sure enough some wingnut on ATS has somehow connected it to some larger conspiracy theory. I mean I like a good CT as much as the next person, but we need to do some better due diligence on making the connections. CTers have become lazy in researching and sourcing their claims. Anything considered "NOT mainstream" is immediately given instant credibility when it is far more likely that an alternative media source is lying to you than a mainstream source.
edit on 6-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Trading of arms for hostages happened, the hair brained idea that Reagan had cut the deal to delay any hostage releases until after the election, however, is pure CT nonsense.

Well like I told Kandinsky, I'm not disputing the age of CT's. I'm saying that the modern era has used the internet to weaponize them.


It was weaponized over 200 years ago when John Adams and Thomas Jefferson ran the most ridiculously hateful media war ever seen in US politics (before or since) against each other. We're getting fussed over Trump accusing Obama's admin of wiretapping him and accusations of racism against Trump? LOL! Try newspaper headlines that speculated Addams was a hermaphrodite and newspaper headlines that declared voters wives and daughters would be forced into prostitution if Jefferson was elected. The internet weaponized nothing, it merely became a new weapon in an already raging war.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Kandinsky

What annoys me is that many who make this observation tend to lump even the people who are arguing with the partisans as equally partisan.


That often happens when the person claiming to be nonpartisan has a long track record of only taking one party's side on virtually every discussion they involve themselves in...

I see this as a reflection of the positions that the partisan sides have taken. One side seems to stand for everything NOT mainstream and the other goes with the mainstream. It becomes harder to support a party when so many of their arguments are proven to be hyperbole or exaggerations and then they go further and label actual research and science as conspiracy theories to de-legitimize them.

I'd very much like to go back to being a moderate politically, but at this point I cannot find many Conservative viewpoints that I see steeped in reality. Even the issues I was traditionally on their side for like gun rights seem to have swung far into the conservative extreme.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t



Yeah politicians are the same as they've ever been but we expect so much more of them and hold it against them when they screw up like humans. One thing we need to do is be willing to forgive mistakes made by politicians more readily. Not EVERY mistake is part of some sinister conspiracy theory to steal our rights from us.


Agreed.


My overall view of politicians is they're all assholes. They make mistakes and most of them are tiny parts of institutions that have been around for two and three centuries. Mission creep plays its part too and they're influenced by forces we don't really understand from down here.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Well like I told Kandinsky, I'm not disputing the age of CT's. I'm saying that the modern era has used the internet to weaponize them.


On that point I will agree with you. But I still don't think this is as much of an issue if people think critically. When a sitting president points to Alex Jones as a journalist worthy of mention...There's an issue and people should look closer.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

You essentially just admitted to being a partisan liberal. The party you're opposed to is clearly part of the mainstream (if they weren't it wouldn't be possible for them to win elections, ya?) and many of the issues you have portrayed as "hyperbole or exaggerations," I'd call logical and evidenced.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Well like I told Kandinsky, I'm not disputing the age of CT's. I'm saying that the modern era has used the internet to weaponize them.


On that point I will agree with you. But I still don't think this is as much of an issue if people think critically. When a sitting president points to Alex Jones as a journalist worthy of mention...There's an issue and people should look closer.

I agree, but critical thinking isn't taught very well in schools these days.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You essentially just admitted to being a partisan liberal. The party you're opposed to is clearly part of the mainstream (if they weren't it wouldn't be possible for them to win elections, ya?) and many of the issues you have portrayed as "hyperbole or exaggerations," I'd call logical and evidenced.

No. I am admitting that I can appear partisan, but its not because I want to. If Conservatives started basing their political opinions around reality again then I'd probably quickly swing back to the middle ground.

For instance, Jeb Bush would be a palatable Conservative for me. The reality of him being the governor of Florida is quickly showing him that the party line that Climate Change is false is a lie. Kaisch was another conservative I would have been willing to vote for. Hell, throw in Rubio too.

And I know the Republicans are a mainstream party, but its usually conservatives/Republicans who pretend like their opinions are marginalized and not given a voice. That is the deception I'm referring to.
edit on 6-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Krazysh0t



Yeah politicians are the same as they've ever been but we expect so much more of them and hold it against them when they screw up like humans. One thing we need to do is be willing to forgive mistakes made by politicians more readily. Not EVERY mistake is part of some sinister conspiracy theory to steal our rights from us.


Agreed.


My overall view of politicians is they're all assholes. They make mistakes and most of them are tiny parts of institutions that have been around for two and three centuries. Mission creep plays its part too and they're influenced by forces we don't really understand from down here.

Yes. The real problem is us. We need to pay attention better and not just let some little meme we find dictate our worldviews just because it aligns with our political views.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

I thought most people keep their knifes inside drawers, not cupboards....




posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Well like I told Kandinsky, I'm not disputing the age of CT's. I'm saying that the modern era has used the internet to weaponize them.


On that point I will agree with you. But I still don't think this is as much of an issue if people think critically. When a sitting president points to Alex Jones as a journalist worthy of mention...There's an issue and people should look closer.

I agree, but critical thinking isn't taught very well in schools these days.


No doubt about that, that's why people that DO think critically should be able to respond calmly and think things through without panic.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Irishhaf

I thought most people keep their knifes inside drawers, not cupboards....



everybody is a critic...



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t



And I know the Republicans are a mainstream party, but its usually conservatives/Republicans who pretend like they their opinions are marginalized and not given a voice. That is the deception I'm referring to.


Yeah, a lot of people claiming victim status these days and it's kinda new in how many of them there are.

It's more of a comment on the systems we live in when so many lay claim to being victims or feeling marginalised, right?

The key word is *marginalised* and I think both sides (the vocal ones) are failing to appreciate that these sentiments are heartfelt and sincere. The ideological schisms in Western Europe and the USA are, to an extent, driven by assuming the others are [insert pejorative] instead of being normal folk.

I usually stay out of these threads because it's easy to see the failings and I'm not smart enough to offer any solutions.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:22 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky

I usually stay out of these threads because it's easy to see the failings and I'm not smart enough to offer any solutions.

That is definitely a fair assessment. And to finish your thought, when you DO participate it makes you look like a hypocrite for pointing these things out as people are quick to call you out for times where it looked like you were contributing or were actually contributing to the situation at large.
edit on 6-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
And I know the Republicans are a mainstream party, but its usually conservatives/Republicans who pretend like their opinions are marginalized and not given a voice. That is the deception I'm referring to.


Well, the irony in your position here is that the Democratic party elected the individual who toed the party line the strongest over the renegade who actually embraced more of the issues the everyday liberal voter loves the most. Meanwhile, the GOP elected a renegade who essentially showed both middle fingers to the party repeatedly over a handful of party stalwarts.

Partisan

a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance political partisans who see only one side of the problem


Wanna tell me again how it's the conservatives who are the most partisan? Or am I deceiving people by simply stating the basic fact that the GOP has become the first voting bloc in this country's history to elect someone to the office of President who didn't even make an effort to toe the party line and, instead, spoke from the heart on issues that resonated with voters?

The 3 Republicans you picked as being *ahem* "palatable" are, not coincidentally, three of the first Republicans most voters slap the 'RINO' tag on. They're not CONSERVATIVES in any way, they're simply dingleberries on the Republican party's ass, along for a ride because their political history involved regions where nobody with a 'D' after their name had any prayer of winning. You want to talk about partisanship, OK, let's start with politicians who only join a party because they desperately need the party to have any prayer of winning office.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
And I know the Republicans are a mainstream party, but its usually conservatives/Republicans who pretend like their opinions are marginalized and not given a voice. That is the deception I'm referring to.


Well, the irony in your position here is that the Democratic party elected the individual who toed the party line the strongest over the renegade who actually embraced more of the issues the everyday liberal voter loves the most. Meanwhile, the GOP elected a renegade who essentially showed both middle fingers to the party repeatedly over a handful of party stalwarts.

Partisan

a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance political partisans who see only one side of the problem


Wanna tell me again how it's the conservatives who are the most partisan? Or am I deceiving people by simply stating the basic fact that the GOP has become the first voting bloc in this country's history to elect someone to the office of President who didn't even make an effort to toe the party line and, instead, spoke from the heart on issues that resonated with voters?

Now now. I'm not saying that Democrats aren't partisan. They are and Hillary is one of the more guilty ones. I was a Bernie supporter, remember? He used to be an independent and only ran as a Democrat to gain more support.

But remember now that Trump is in charge, the Republicans in congress do everything in their power to support everything he does and rarely ever question him. I've yet to see a supporter say there is merit to any investigation into Trumps' activities.


The 3 Republicans you picked as being *ahem* "palatable" are, not coincidentally, three of the first Republicans most voters slap the 'RINO' tag on. They're not CONSERVATIVES in any way, they're simply dingleberries on the Republican party's ass, along for a ride because their political history involved regions where nobody with a 'D' after their name had any prayer of winning. You want to talk about partisanship, OK, let's start with politicians who only join a party because they desperately need the party to have any prayer of winning office.

This is actually a reflection of another problem in modern politics. The idea that "compromise" is a dirty word. That compromise suddenly makes you not a conservative or liberal. It is also why moderates are disappearing from the political atmosphere.

If you want liberals to ever come together for your policies, you need to stop treating compromise like a personal failing.




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