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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Spying or criminal investigation?

Careful now, you'll be on record.




posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Let's break this down, concept by concept:



He has received lots of money from Russian oligarchs and refuses to make his tax returns public.


How do you know this? Where's the evidence?


He has spent time in Russia, and Russian intelligence routinely gathers potential blackmail materials.

McCarthyism. Jill stein spent time in russia too, is she also a russian plant?



Trump has surrounded himself with advisers with their own Russian connections, and changed the language condemning Russia's aggression in Ukraine

What kind of connections? Like russia owning 17% of an oil stake with exxon? More mccarthyism. As for changing the language, is Trump not allowed to adjust the US posture towards russia, all because you loons think that he is a russian plant?



His AG lied about his contacts with the Russian ambassador, and has had to recuse himself from an espionage investigation.

Not true. Sessions didn't lie. The question was about the Trump campaign and as part of the trump campaign he never met with 'muh russians'. Further he recused himself because as a victim of the leaks, and the russia probe expanding into the leaks, that's what a person with integrity does. But it's worth noting, that recusing oneself is not an admission of guilt, it's done to ensure trust in the process. Therefore, even public allegations can sometimes be enough. Unless you're a leftist like loretta lynch.



Most damning of all is the intensity with which Trump is fighting all this. If it's all "fake news," why doesn't he just let Congress whitewash it for him and move on?

You haven't paid much attention to trump through the last two years, have you. He doesn't let the media get away with smear jobs. It drives you and the media insane.

But here's the kicker: Do you really think, with all of this spying on the trump campaign, that had the previous administration found any actionable evidence they would have just went silently into the night? HELL NO. They would have leaked it before the EC vote in December. But they found nothing, that's why all you have is a PR campaign and not a criminal trial or anything of the sort.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: canuckster
I don't understand why everyone freaking out because they think that Russia has influenced american elections.

Fake News ... is fake news. Nothing to see here. Move along ... move along. LOL



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Gryphon66

You're not helping your side on this, so carry on by all means.



I think some are in the 'please make it go away' mode.
I am not sure why getting all the information on the table via an investigation is so horrifying to them.


Seems more like full on meltdown and panic mode to me.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:33 AM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Gryphon66

You're not helping your side on this, so carry on by all means.



I think some are in the 'please make it go away' mode.
I am not sure why getting all the information on the table via an investigation is so horrifying to them.


Don't be daft. An investigation isn't in the least bit horrifying. In fact I'm a proponent.
I think what's horrifying, is that the dogma prevalent within most Trump supporters has serious negative connotations associated with it.

Yet, you still haven't answered me as to why it all matters to you, someone not from the US? I would like to know that


I fail to see the dogma attached to a desire to want answers as to why Obama's administration was spying on Trump. Glad we're on the same page on the need for an investigation.



That could explain why you fail to see other's points of view as well. Ya see, dogma is a blind belief, based upon something someone says without questioning it. The Segway here would be Trump supporters blindly following what he says without questioning it objectively. Hope that much has been enlightening.




As for why it matters to me personally, that is none of your business and irrelevant to the conversation.


I see, now the defensive shield comes up....no red flags there eh?
While it may be none of my business, your credibility to post honestly within this thread is certainly called into question. If I had nothing to hide, I would say simply "because I live in NJ half the year, and the other half in the UK for business purposes".....but....ya didn't do that.


I am discussing the thread topic and have no desire to engage on your wider partisan issues. Now please explain why it is dogma to want to answers as to why Obama's administration was spying on Trump.

Once again, mind your own business and stay on topic. The thread is not about me.


Nope. I'm not making it about you, you're not really getting off that easily. I'm discussing why the topic of the thread leads you to being such a vocal outcrier for Trump with respect to the allegations he's made. That is 100% on-topic. There is no partisanship there. But go on, and spin your "FAKE NEWS", no one is really fooled.

As far as dogma, I already explained that....it seems you're relying on thread ambiguity to obfuscate the shortcomings in logic that are being employed.

And once again, I'll mind whatever it is I choose to mind.


Getting off that easily, lol. Try a bit harder, sunshine.


What shortcomings in logic are there? Once again, explain why a position of wanting an investigation into why Obama's administration was spying on Trump (and, as i have stated, wanting Trump to provide evidence for his claims) is dogma. Given your responses, you may need to consult a dictionary before you reply.


I will await your insight, hopefully enriched after your consultation with said dictionary.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: ausername

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Gryphon66

You're not helping your side on this, so carry on by all means.



I think some are in the 'please make it go away' mode.
I am not sure why getting all the information on the table via an investigation is so horrifying to them.


Seems more like full on meltdown and panic mode to me.


Yep.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: introvert

He's not in any trouble. This is crap manufactured by trump.
Notice he still hasn't provided proof or even made an official appeal for an investigation. How's that?
If trump believes this he would call an immediate investigation. He has not.
Curious no???


It appears to me that Trump and many of his supporters may be taking this issue out-of-context, for whatever purpose.

We know wiretapping was taking place in Trump tower in regards to Russian banking/servers. That does not mean Obama specifically ordered (which he cannot do) Trump to be tapped for the sake of the election.

I think this is being blown way out of proportion and some people are being drawn in to a culture/cult of conspiracy-based victimhood.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: ausername

That's because of "identity politics".

People so identify with the Obama administration that when Obama is accused of wrong-doings, then by default, you are accusing them of wrong-doings.

Therefore, they have to justify the illegality, the improper conduct somehow.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Gryphon66

People with dignity post on topic, and they certainly don't spy on their political opponents like Obama did.


It makes me personally happy that you are on record on this one.


Right Big Neo is the scourge of ATS.

Spying on posters is how I got so many stars


LOL ... you should use that in your advertising!



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:36 AM
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As a Trump supporter I think he should have waited until he had hard evidence to present -- that being said, the deep state sounds more and more real every day and I have no question someone is trying to sabotage Trump's campaign. Obozo probably begged his puppet masters for the opportunity after Trump embarrassed this narcissist with his inauguration speech.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: ausername

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Gryphon66

You're not helping your side on this, so carry on by all means.



I think some are in the 'please make it go away' mode.
I am not sure why getting all the information on the table via an investigation is so horrifying to them.


Seems more like full on meltdown and panic mode to me.


Are you referring to Trump?

This does not need to go away. It needs to be played-out to it's final conclusion. If Obama's admin did something wrong, let's hold them accountable.

If Trump is lying and blowing this out of proportion, we should hold him accountable.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Maybe Obama should.

Spy on one guy get the next one free.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: introvert




We know wiretapping was taking place in Trump tower in regards to Russian banking/servers.


So you admit the ic was turned on american citizens?
You do understand that is illegal?
You do understand there are actual criminal penalties for keeping and dissemination of illegally obtained info/data of a us citizen?
Please explain how this is not the same thing nixon did.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: introvert

He's not in any trouble. This is crap manufactured by trump.
Notice he still hasn't provided proof or even made an official appeal for an investigation. How's that?
If trump believes this he would call an immediate investigation. He has not.
Curious no???


It appears to me that Trump and many of his supporters may be taking this issue out-of-context, for whatever purpose.

We know wiretapping was taking place in Trump tower in regards to Russian banking/servers. That does not mean Obama specifically ordered (which he cannot do) Trump to be tapped for the sake of the election.

I think this is being blown way out of proportion and some people are being drawn in to a culture/cult of conspiracy-based victimhood.



I suspect the cult of conspiracy about Russian spies was becoming a bit boring, so a new one was needed.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ausername

That's because of "identity politics".

People so identify with the Obama administration that when Obama is accused of wrong-doings, then by default, you are accusing them of wrong-doings.

Therefore, they have to justify the illegality, the improper conduct somehow.



Try this version.

"People so identify with Trump that when Trump is accused of wrong-doings, then by default, one is accusing them of wrong doings."

"Therefore, they have to justify the illegality, the improper conduct somehow."

What about that ... by exchanging two words a greater truth is revealed.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: introvert




We know wiretapping was taking place in Trump tower in regards to Russian banking/servers.


So you admit the ic was turned on american citizens?
You do understand that is illegal?
You do understand there are actual criminal penalties for keeping and dissemination of illegally obtained info/data of a us citizen?
Please explain how this is not the same thing nixon did.


As far as I am aware the criminal aspect is in relation to the sharing of the information obtained from the wire tap. That is why it is important to know who this information was shared with, what specifically was shared, and when it was shared.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: introvert

He's not in any trouble. This is crap manufactured by trump.
Notice he still hasn't provided proof or even made an official appeal for an investigation. How's that?
If trump believes this he would call an immediate investigation. He has not.
Curious no???


It appears to me that Trump and many of his supporters may be taking this issue out-of-context, for whatever purpose.

We know wiretapping was taking place in Trump tower in regards to Russian banking/servers. That does not mean Obama specifically ordered (which he cannot do) Trump to be tapped for the sake of the election.

I think this is being blown way out of proportion and some people are being drawn in to a culture/cult of conspiracy-based victimhood.



So you are ok with a sitting president wiretapping his opposition?

So in four years if trump suggests whoever the dem candidate is of having ties to Saudis Arabia or radical Islamic groups, you will be ok with him wiretapping that person and many of their associates?



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Gryphon66

Maybe Obama should.

Spy on one guy get the next one free.


Perhaps Mr. Trump can get a deal like that too.

Or would it be "spy on one guy, stop spying on two."



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:39 AM
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I retract my previous statement as apparently the FISA courts have Obama on record wire-tapping Trump Tower.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ausername

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Gryphon66

You're not helping your side on this, so carry on by all means.



I think some are in the 'please make it go away' mode.
I am not sure why getting all the information on the table via an investigation is so horrifying to them.


Seems more like full on meltdown and panic mode to me.



This does not need to go away. It needs to be played-out to it's final conclusion. If Obama's admin did something wrong, let's hold them accountable.

If Trump is lying and blowing this out of proportion, we should hold him accountable.

100% agree.
edit on 5/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



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