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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 07:53 AM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

" Isn't that fascinating? That reasonable people can see the same things in two diametrically-opposing ways? "

Please Define your Perception of the Word " Reasonable " , then Maybe we can have a Decent Conversation Minus the Biasness I Often Read from your Numerous Posts .


You can shorten the description of your position: "I'm Right, You're Wrong."


No , More Like " Defend Your Argument " Based on Facts and Not Theory or Conjecture , I will do the Same . Let's make it a " No Spin " Zone here on ATS for a Change , Ok ?


LOL ... when you spun my simple observation that people have diametrically opposed ideas into your own little snide dig at me? No thanks. Your repeated responses to reasonable argument with variations on "That's Not True You're Just A Liberal" is the proof of that.

Beg pardon for addressing you.




posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 07:55 AM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

Question , In Your Opinion Based on the Facts Presented SO FAR , Has President Trump just Made Up this Story of Trump Tower being Wiretapped by the Order of Then President Obama by Federal Intelligence Agencies during his Time in Office , or is their some Possible Validity to his Accusation considering the Documented Instances of then President Obama Using his Power of the Presidency to Authorize through the Department of Justice , Investigations of Aledged Crimes Committed by his Political Opponents ?


Yes, Trump listened to fringe conspiracy garbage and went off.

President Obama did not (and could not) order a wiretap.

Trump or someone in his organization was under investigation for criminal activities. A judge issued a warrant based on probable cause.

That's the simple fact here.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 07:58 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

No, nothing wrong with controlled immigration, nor economic independence (although that's an antique concept), or the right to govern one's own country ... but all of those are not hyper-nationalism.

The concepts of irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the right of the strong to dominate the weak, militarization and warmongering?

We've seen where those lead when they are writ large across the globe.



You are describing a world that does not exist in any mainstream. There is no party that has a hope in hell of gaining power that espouses irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the strong dominating the weak.

As far as war mongering goes, I'll give you that. It is a problem, but in fact it's been a problem over our recent history regardless of whether the 'right' or 'left' ideologies have held sway.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

"That's Not True You're Just A Liberal"

There you Go Again . Spinning . Please Find that Quote in Any of my Posts Directed at you Mr. G . I Care Not about your Political Leanings , it's a Free Country , Only for your Honest Take on the Issue we are Dicussing here .



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 07:59 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

No, nothing wrong with controlled immigration, nor economic independence (although that's an antique concept), or the right to govern one's own country ... but all of those are not hyper-nationalism.

The concepts of irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the right of the strong to dominate the weak, militarization and warmongering?

We've seen where those lead when they are writ large across the globe.



You are describing a world that does not exist in any mainstream. There is no party that has a hope in hell of gaining power that espouses irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the strong dominating the weak.

As far as war mongering goes, I'll give you that. It is a problem, but in fact it's been a problem over our recent history regardless of whether the 'right' or 'left' ideologies have held sway.


As mentioned to a previous poster ... diametrically opposing views.

Let's hope you're right and we're wrong.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:00 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

Question , In Your Opinion Based on the Facts Presented SO FAR , Has President Trump just Made Up this Story of Trump Tower being Wiretapped by the Order of Then President Obama by Federal Intelligence Agencies during his Time in Office , or is their some Possible Validity to his Accusation considering the Documented Instances of then President Obama Using his Power of the Presidency to Authorize through the Department of Justice , Investigations of Aledged Crimes Committed by his Political Opponents ?


Yes, Trump listened to fringe conspiracy garbage and went off.

President Obama did not (and could not) order a wiretap.

Trump or someone in his organization was under investigation for criminal activities. A judge issued a warrant based on probable cause.

That's the simple fact here.


We're yet to find out Obama's involvement. He can not order a wire tap (at least he is not supposed to), but he can be involved and he can give the go ahead to a proposal from his intelligence services.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:00 AM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

"That's Not True You're Just A Liberal"

There you Go Again . Spinning . Please Find that Quote in Any of my Posts Directed at you Mr. G . I Care Not about your Political Leanings , it's a Free Country , Only for your Honest Take on the Issue we are Dicussing here .


I've given that to you. You're still talking about my style, Master Sticky Shift-Key.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:02 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

Question , In Your Opinion Based on the Facts Presented SO FAR , Has President Trump just Made Up this Story of Trump Tower being Wiretapped by the Order of Then President Obama by Federal Intelligence Agencies during his Time in Office , or is their some Possible Validity to his Accusation considering the Documented Instances of then President Obama Using his Power of the Presidency to Authorize through the Department of Justice , Investigations of Aledged Crimes Committed by his Political Opponents ?


Yes, Trump listened to fringe conspiracy garbage and went off.

President Obama did not (and could not) order a wiretap.

Trump or someone in his organization was under investigation for criminal activities. A judge issued a warrant based on probable cause.

That's the simple fact here.


We're yet to find out Obama's involvement. He can not order a wire tap (at least he is not supposed to), but he can be involved and he can give the go ahead to a proposal from his intelligence services.


Any evidence of that? Other than fringe conspiracy theory and Mr. Trumps wee-hours tweeting?

The judge issued the wiretap order as part of an on-going investigation with probable cause.

That's what we know.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:05 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

No, nothing wrong with controlled immigration, nor economic independence (although that's an antique concept), or the right to govern one's own country ... but all of those are not hyper-nationalism.

The concepts of irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the right of the strong to dominate the weak, militarization and warmongering?

We've seen where those lead when they are writ large across the globe.



You are describing a world that does not exist in any mainstream. There is no party that has a hope in hell of gaining power that espouses irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the strong dominating the weak.

As far as war mongering goes, I'll give you that. It is a problem, but in fact it's been a problem over our recent history regardless of whether the 'right' or 'left' ideologies have held sway.


As mentioned to a previous poster ... diametrically opposing views.

Let's hope you're right and we're wrong.


Regardless of views, I would like to talk about what is actually happening, not some doomsday scenario of what could happen. I am seeing far too much binary thinking of 'right' = Hitler and 'left' = not Hitler. The ironic thing about Trump is that he is not even right wing. He is a liberal who has moved to the centre on specific issues.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:08 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

Question , In Your Opinion Based on the Facts Presented SO FAR , Has President Trump just Made Up this Story of Trump Tower being Wiretapped by the Order of Then President Obama by Federal Intelligence Agencies during his Time in Office , or is their some Possible Validity to his Accusation considering the Documented Instances of then President Obama Using his Power of the Presidency to Authorize through the Department of Justice , Investigations of Aledged Crimes Committed by his Political Opponents ?


Yes, Trump listened to fringe conspiracy garbage and went off.

President Obama did not (and could not) order a wiretap.

Trump or someone in his organization was under investigation for criminal activities. A judge issued a warrant based on probable cause.

That's the simple fact here.


We're yet to find out Obama's involvement. He can not order a wire tap (at least he is not supposed to), but he can be involved and he can give the go ahead to a proposal from his intelligence services.


Any evidence of that? Other than fringe conspiracy theory and Mr. Trumps wee-hours tweeting?

The judge issued the wiretap order as part of an on-going investigation with probable cause.

That's what we know.


Evidence of what? I made no claim other than Obama can be involved (not that he was).
I am waiting for more evidence of what went on. The judge issuing the warrant is just a process issue. What is important is who was involved in requesting it and what evidence they had to initiate such a request.
edit on 5/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:08 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

No, nothing wrong with controlled immigration, nor economic independence (although that's an antique concept), or the right to govern one's own country ... but all of those are not hyper-nationalism.

The concepts of irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the right of the strong to dominate the weak, militarization and warmongering?

We've seen where those lead when they are writ large across the globe.



You are describing a world that does not exist in any mainstream. There is no party that has a hope in hell of gaining power that espouses irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the strong dominating the weak.

As far as war mongering goes, I'll give you that. It is a problem, but in fact it's been a problem over our recent history regardless of whether the 'right' or 'left' ideologies have held sway.


As mentioned to a previous poster ... diametrically opposing views.

Let's hope you're right and we're wrong.


Regardless of views, I would like to talk about what is actually happening, not some doomsday scenario of what could happen. I am seeing far too much binary thinking of 'right' = Hitler and 'left' = not Hitler. The ironic thing about Trump is that he is not even right wing. He is a liberal who has moved to the centre on specific issues.


Again, my commentary (and that of others) is not solely about Trump, but the world situation.

I agree with you, at least here, in your condemnation of false dichotomies. However, I'm betting that you'll be condemning "the Left, lefties, etc." again soon enough.

Thanks for the conversation, UK.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth


You are describing a world that does not exist in any mainstream. There is no party that has a hope in hell of gaining power that espouses irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the strong dominating the weak.


Have you been paying no attention whatsoever? You have described Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, and your own Brexit lot to a "t." You yourself keep emphasizing that "winning" is more important than having the best interests of the nation in mind.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

"That's Not True You're Just A Liberal"

There you Go Again . Spinning . Please Find that Quote in Any of my Posts Directed at you Mr. G . I Care Not about your Political Leanings , it's a Free Country , Only for your Honest Take on the Issue we are Dicussing here .


I've given that to you. You're still talking about my style, Master Sticky Shift-Key.



I'm Sorry , Am I Still Guilty of a CapitAl Offence somewhat Like your Beloved Ex President is ?.........LookOut ! .........)




edit on 5-3-2017 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Obama "can be involved" ... Michelle "could be involved" ... the Clintons "could be involved" ... anyone "could be involved."

There's zero evidence that Obama was, but that didn't stop the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES from accusing him IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.

Anyway, peace, have fun poking the bears.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Another wondrous reasonable and factual response.

Ciao.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:12 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


You are describing a world that does not exist in any mainstream. There is no party that has a hope in hell of gaining power that espouses irrational superiority, clannishness, tribalism, the strong dominating the weak.


Have you been paying no attention whatsoever? You have described Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, and your own Brexit lot to a "t." You yourself keep emphasizing that "winning" is more important than having the best interests of the nation in mind.


Nonsense. In your mind you may have associated such things with Trump, Le Pen, Brexit, but it does not fit with reality.
I have not said that winning is more important than the best interests of the country. That is another one of your projections that also has no basis in reality.
edit on 5/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Peace Out , Gotta Go to Work Now........Making America Great Again ..........For All of US............




edit on 5-3-2017 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Obama "can be involved" ... Michelle "could be involved" ... the Clintons "could be involved" ... anyone "could be involved."

There's zero evidence that Obama was, but that didn't stop the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES from accusing him IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.

Anyway, peace, have fun poking the bears.


Read the thread. I have already said that Trump needs to prove this and it's damaging for him if he can't.



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: c2oden

Not really. pbs.twimg.com...



posted on Mar, 5 2017 @ 08:17 AM
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Technically, Obama being the president was the boss of FBI. Whatever FBI does must go through Obama's approval. If FBI spied on Trump. Well, Obama would be involved in the operation, technically speaking.




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