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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

Minor errors in math (129mil voted if you add up the amounts you say voted for each candidate) changes the % a little, but still doesn't change the story much.

Regardless, who voted for Trump and who voted for Hillary says nothing about how many Americans agree that our president has no duty to change his personality while in office. Data surrounding that is not available as far as I am aware.




posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

Minor errors in math (129mil voted if you add up the amounts you say voted for each candidate) changes the % a little, but still doesn't change the story much.



I rounded up (as I said)..
Trump got 62,979,636 (63 Million)
Clinton got 65,844,610 (66 Million)


The remainder of the differential was 3rd party and write in votes..

Trump received 27% of the eligible vote...




Regardless, who voted for Trump and who voted for Hillary says nothing about how many Americans agree that our president has no duty to change his personality while in office. Data surrounding that is not available as far as I am aware.


Approval ratings say something to that effect and his are historically (unprecedented) low for a potus at this stage..
edit on 23-3-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx
a reply to: SBMcG

and yet you are still talking about Hillary supporters and how they are still somehow "hurting"....you just proved my case.
I'm concerned about the potus we now have, and the dismantling of our government that he and the Russian government are working on, to fulfill the downfall of the U.S. by disparaging it's leadership role, and to further putin's influence.


You were the one whining about Trump supporters. I simply replied in kind...

You have ZERO evidence that President Trump, working with the Russian government, is working on the downfall of the US or to "further [P]utin's influence". I doubt even most leftists here would agree with that.

So far, not only have I NOT "proved [your] case", YOU haven't proven yours.

Telling participants in a forum to "go away" because you don't like what they have to say is truly lame.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

No doubt. Regardless of other reasons, it would be literally impossible to maintain a high approval rating when you pick a fight with the giants of media. Even if you were Jesus, they'd make you the devil.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: jimmyx
a reply to: SBMcG

and yet you are still talking about Hillary supporters and how they are still somehow "hurting"....you just proved my case.
I'm concerned about the potus we now have, and the dismantling of our government that he and the Russian government are working on, to fulfill the downfall of the U.S. by disparaging it's leadership role, and to further putin's influence.


You were the one whining about Trump supporters. I simply replied in kind...

You have ZERO evidence that President Trump, working with the Russian government, is working on the downfall of the US or to "further [P]utin's influence". I doubt even most leftists here would agree with that.



Trump doesn't care about Putin's influence...or America...He cares about Trump...and as far as Putin can exploit that..or HAS exploited that..is what is to be determined. Kompramat and common interests for Trump and Putin.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

No doubt. Regardless of other reasons, it would be literally impossible to maintain a high approval rating when you pick a fight with the giants of media. Even if you were Jesus, they'd make you the devil.


Yes...Cuz Trump Tweets and the # storms that follow are the media's doing.

You are consistent in Demonizing the media for reporting what the President does and says...



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: Indigo5


Approval ratings say something to that effect and his are historically (unprecedented) low for a potus at this stage..


His approval rating hit unprecedentedly low numbers 30 seconds after hitting 270 votes... Was claimed the worst President in history 2 weeks before he entered office...was slammed for lying to his voters that he would start on day one and it is said his first day was Saturday and not Monday... This goes on and on, so your point is moot since what is driving all this is really not the President who isn't even at his first 100 days to evaluate a single thing...



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

Well....i'd likely back off if I didn't see stuff like the urinating hookers story. Or if there was something more than "sources say". I guess, essentially, im not down for publicly trying someone in the press.

And for whatever its worth...my disdain for the press goes back years. I hated GW Bush. But seeing how they raked him over the coals while softballing Obama for doing the exact same things I hated Bush for (and which they tried to call him out on), they've absolutely lost my faith.

A side note: presidents do lie all the time. Sometimes its wrong. Sometimes its national security and the like. I get this (but don't like it much). But the press....it NEVER has an excuse to lie. Even the lies by omission.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:36 PM
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Jesus, are we still fretting about this "popular vote" nonsense?

Factor out California -- which is always going to go leftist and allows illegals to vote, and President Trump got 1.3 million more votes than Bill Clinton's wife.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "popular vote" in presidential elections. If there were, campaigns would be waged accordingly.

Do you leftists know why there isn't more of an outcry from the Left to change the system from electoral vote to popular? Because if presidents were elected by popular vote, no liberal would EVER win.

Why...?

Because millions of eligible voters in blue states who are conservative don't vote in national elections as they know their votes won't count. If national elections were based upon a simple popular vote tally, these millions of conservatives in California, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, and even my home state of Washington (very conservative outside the Olympia to Everett I-5 corridor) would vote conservative.

There are millions more conservatives and centrists than there are liberals. Even if you split the "independent" or centrist vote 50/50 between liberals and conservatives, conservatives still have a wide majority.

That is why very few leftist politicians want to change the electoral system. They would lose even worse...

Gallup: Liberals only 25% of Electorate
edit on 23-3-2017 by SBMcG because: Bill Clinton's wife lost the popular vote too!



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG

So basically you are just looking to believe. Gotcha.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

You might like this piece as it brings into question Crowdstrike

Crowdstrike had based its numbers for "excessive losses" of Ukrainian artillery units on statistics collected by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS). The IISS now says that its statistic do not provide what Crowdstrike claimed. There were no "excessive losses" of Ukrainian artillery. VOA first contacted IISS in February to verify the alleged artillery losses. Officials there initially were unaware of the CrowdStrike assertions. After investigating, they determined that CrowdStrike misinterpreted their data and hadn’t reached out beforehand for comment or clarification. In a statement to VOA, the institute flatly rejected the assertion of artillery combat losses.

It seems that the whole "Ukrainian artillery hack" claims by Crowdstrike was simply made up. There was no "hack" and the claimed damage from the "hack" did not occur at all. Crowdstrike evidently found a "crime" and "Russian hacking" where none had happened. In the case of the DNC hacking Crowdstrike also alleged a "crime" and "Russian hacking". No hard evidence was ever provided for that claim, no competent police force ever investigated the crime scene and serious security researchers found that the Crowdstrike claims were likely taken from hot air.
Fool Me Once ... DNC Ally Crowdstrike Claimed Two Cases Of "Russian Hacking" - One At Least Was Fake www.moonofalabama.org...



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG

Great point, though. To take the results of our election and try to suppose a popular vote is akin to taking the score of Game 1 of the World Series and suppose Game 1 of the NBA finals.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: jimmyx
a reply to: SBMcG

and yet you are still talking about Hillary supporters and how they are still somehow "hurting"....you just proved my case.
I'm concerned about the potus we now have, and the dismantling of our government that he and the Russian government are working on, to fulfill the downfall of the U.S. by disparaging it's leadership role, and to further putin's influence.


You were the one whining about Trump supporters. I simply replied in kind...

You have ZERO evidence that President Trump, working with the Russian government, is working on the downfall of the US or to "further [P]utin's influence". I doubt even most leftists here would agree with that.



Trump doesn't care about Putin's influence...or America...He cares about Trump...and as far as Putin can exploit that..or HAS exploited that..is what is to be determined. Kompramat and common interests for Trump and Putin.


All unsubstantiated opinion as usual.

You have ZERO evidence Putin is exploiting Trump in any way or for any reason.

You have ZERO evidence that Putin has exploited Trump.

You have ZERO evidence Trump and Putin have "common interest" (what are they?).

As for as I'm concerned, you continue to have ZERO credibility.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: SBMcG

Great point, though. To take the results of our election and try to suppose a popular vote is akin to taking the score of Game 1 of the World Series and suppose Game 1 of the NBA finals.


LMAO! Yep. Good analogy.

Two totally different games.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Heh. That's fair, but keep in mind that most of your examples came before we were big on the international scene. Our prestige carries a lot of weight internationally, but back when our country was first starting it wasn't as necessary to behave a certain way. The rest of the world could just roll its eyes and consider us a bunch of backwards hicks. NOW, it's a bit different since whatever the US does, the rest of the world is getting involved in.



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Actually, you pulled that out of your ass. 37% of Americans voted for him. The rest didn't. But you have no way of knowing what America thinks about this.



That's the approval of job performance percentage, not voter percentages. I didn't pull the number out of my ass, I pulled it out of Gallup's ass.





See? Despite disagreeing on some minor (and maybe a couple of not-so-minor) points, on the whole I think you and I have plenty of common ground.


Good show!


I have actually thought that many times and have expressed it at least once...I believe we have LOTS of common ground. If we agreed about everything frankly I would be worried.

You're a good man furry, and a good guy, I have no doubt about that at all, yet I doubt for myself Trump could ever win my loyalty as I expect a certain type of leadership quality from the President. Should ANY President shake up and potentially dismantle that cesspool that is D.C.? Hell yes.
edit on 23-3-2017 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SBMcG

So basically you are just looking to believe. Gotcha.


Nope. My conclusions are totally based upon fact.

What is your denial of reality based upon -- wishful thinking?



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SBMcG

So basically you are just looking to believe. Gotcha.


Nope. My conclusions are totally based upon fact.

Well according to what you posted to me they are based on your opinions and biases. Look:


I'd say the evidence to support his charge is clear, beginning with the fact that Barack Hussein Obama had a long and established history spying on his opponents, our allies, and reporters, and ending with the disclosure yesterday by a respected member of the House

This is confirmation bias speaking.


-- House Intelligence Committee Chairman, Devin Nunes, that he has seen evidence the Obama Regime wiretapped Team Trump and was "disturbed" by the nature of that spying.

This says you are ignorant as to what incidental collection is.


What is your denial of reality based upon -- wishful thinking?

After everything you've given me, I feel like I'm better informed about this than you are who looks like he is just shooting from the hip based on his biases. Obama hasn't done anything illegal in regards to surveillance and the Trump Tower.
edit on 23-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SBMcG

So basically you are just looking to believe. Gotcha.


Nope. My conclusions are totally based upon fact.

Well according to what you posted to me they are based on your opinions and biases. Look:


I'd say the evidence to support his charge is clear, beginning with the fact that Barack Hussein Obama had a long and established history spying on his opponents, our allies, and reporters, and ending with the disclosure yesterday by a respected member of the House

This is confirmation bias speaking.


-- House Intelligence Committee Chairman, Devin Nunes, that he has seen evidence the Obama Regime wiretapped Team Trump and was "disturbed" by the nature of that spying.

This says you are ignorant as to what incidental collection is.


What is your denial of reality based upon -- wishful thinking?

After everything you've given me, I feel like I'm better informed about this than you are who looks like he is just shooting from the hip based on his biases. Obama hasn't done anything illegal in regards to surveillance and the Trump Tower.


You can deny the facts all you want -- that does not stop them from being facts. I'm about to go meet my girlfriend for lunch, but when I come home I will gladly make you a list of established facts supporting Trump's claim that he was surveilled by the Obama Regime that even a third grader could understand if that will help.

I'll check back in an hour or so and see if I can help you out...



posted on Mar, 23 2017 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG

Good luck with that, but if your list includes anything referring to Nunes release from yesterday then you are on the wrong track. Incidental collection is 100% legal.

Also, please skip anything dealing with trying to paint Obama as a serial wiretapper. I only want to see evidence that DIRECTLY implicates Obama in wiretapping Trump in 2016. Otherwise you are just gaslighting.

Gotta make sure my high standards of evidence are met because after reading your earlier standards of evidence I'm not confident that the information you provide me will meet my standards. I feel like it will be partisan biased and full of your opinions. Thus I want to explain to you now what I want so you can't accuse me of deflecting.
edit on 23-3-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



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