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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 05:52 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


I would have to be looking at your posts without your knowledge (i.e. secretly) - I assume you are aware this is a public site?


But the Russians assumed they were being monitored, so I guess it wasn't spying after all.


Lol, if your argument is that reading posts on a website is the same as secretly recording phone calls, then I will just leave your argument to fall on it's own.


How odd that a semantics professional would ignore one of the several meanings of the word "spying."

ETA: To wit: "discern or make out, especially by careful observation."

Cite
edit on 22-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted




posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 05:54 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

I'm sure that the FBI is also investigating illegal leaks of information, but the fact that certain information (not all of the results of the investigations to date, as you loosely suggest) was leaked DOES NOTHING to prove that "the Trump Campaign was spied on by the Obama Administration" as you keep repeating.

So now you want to play word games with "Obama Administration." You've made the statement multiple times, on record here, for all to see.

Of course we know who was involved in the investigations under discussion ... the FBI and the Department of Justice. Those are the facts.

Anything else is merely the smelliest of RED HERRING.


I didn't say or suggest that all of the results of the investigation was leaked, but we know Flynns secretly recorded phone calls were leaked.

It's not word games to say that the Obama Administration was spying on the Trump campaign. The FBI's activities are implicitly authorised by the DoJ.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 05:58 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


I would have to be looking at your posts without your knowledge (i.e. secretly) - I assume you are aware this is a public site?


But the Russians assumed they were being monitored, so I guess it wasn't spying after all.


Lol, if your argument is that reading posts on a website is the same as secretly recording phone calls, then I will just leave your argument to fall on it's own.


How odd that a semantics professional would ignore one of the several meanings of the word "spying."

ETA: To wit: "discern or make out, especially by careful observation."

Cite


So, you agree then that spying is the correct term for the actions of the Obama administration against the Trump campaign. Good.

edit on 22/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

No ... you just referred to "the information." General Flynn's conversations were leaked?

Yes, of course, it is the silliest and transparent of "word games" to make the claim (which you just stated you weren't making) that the "Obama Administration was spying on the Trump Campaign" ... because no part of that phrase is accurate.

This is accurate based on what we know ... and you may borrow it if needed:

The FBI and Department of Justice have been investigating certain Trump associates.

That's accurate; yours is merely a loaded imprecise statement that means nothing.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

You are desperately trying to frame the situation using words with negative connotations, and making gross innuendos about the nature of events. This is clearly an attempt to influence others. Please state, flat out, who you are trying to persuade and what you are trying to persuade them of. Your babbling is getting tedious and annoying, and you are virtually the only person contributing to this and several other threads.

Disclosure: I consider Donald Trump to be the first major global crisis of the twenty-first century. He is mentally ill, and in a position of great power. The United States is in the midst of a constitutional crisis because of this. Instability in the United States makes the whole world unsafe. We are on the verge of war with North Korea, something the Kremlin may not have anticipated.

I resent foreign powers manipulating our political process. It is not right when the United States meddles in banana republics, and it is not right when fascist states meddle here.

I am making a stand here on ATS. It is against T&C to call out other members, but don't think no-one has noticed that some of Trump's most ardent supporters here were most vocal in defending Russia's invasion of Ukraine.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:01 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

No ... you just referred to "the information." General Flynn's conversations were leaked?

Yes, of course, it is the silliest and transparent of "word games" to make the claim (which you just stated you weren't making) that the "Obama Administration was spying on the Trump Campaign" ... because no part of that phrase is accurate.

This is accurate based on what we know ... and you may borrow it if needed:

The FBI and Department of Justice have been investigating certain Trump associates.

That's accurate; yours is merely a loaded imprecise statement that means nothing.


Yes, the transcripts.
Authorisation for the FBI's activities comes from the DoJ, so it is completely fair to say that the Obama Administration was spying on the Trump campaign.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:01 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


I would have to be looking at your posts without your knowledge (i.e. secretly) - I assume you are aware this is a public site?


But the Russians assumed they were being monitored, so I guess it wasn't spying after all.


Lol, if your argument is that reading posts on a website is the same as secretly recording phone calls, then I will just leave your argument to fall on it's own.


How odd that a semantics professional would ignore one of the several meanings of the word "spying."

ETA: To wit: "discern or make out, especially by careful observation."

Cite


So, you agree then that spying is the correct term for the actions of the Obama administration against the Trump campaign. Good.


What a puerile tactic!

Spying (in the sense I mentioned) is the correct term for what you do with DJW001's posts; that is all I have implied.

Spying as used fallaciously by you to refer to criminal investigations is imprecise, unreasonable and misleading.
edit on 22-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:04 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

You just clearly stated above that you weren't claiming that the whole "Obama Administration" was "spying" on anyone and now they are again.

Which is it?

Your comments grow increasingly confused and desperate.


edit on 22-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:04 AM
link   

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

You are desperately trying to frame the situation using words with negative connotations, and making gross innuendos about the nature of events. This is clearly an attempt to influence others. Please state, flat out, who you are trying to persuade and what you are trying to persuade them of. Your babbling is getting tedious and annoying, and you are virtually the only person contributing to this and several other threads.

Disclosure: I consider Donald Trump to be the first major global crisis of the twenty-first century. He is mentally ill, and in a position of great power. The United States is in the midst of a constitutional crisis because of this. Instability in the United States makes the whole world unsafe. We are on the verge of war with North Korea, something the Kremlin may not have anticipated.

I resent foreign powers manipulating our political process. It is not right when the United States meddles in banana republics, and it is not right when fascist states meddle here.

I am making a stand here on ATS. It is against T&C to call out other members, but don't think no-one has noticed that some of Trump's most ardent supporters here were most vocal in defending Russia's invasion of Ukraine.


I am framing the actual events according to what we know. I can't help it if you want to soften what actually happened. That is you choice.
It's a bit rich for you to complain about negative connotations given your history of assuming the worst in the absence of evidence on every accusation levelled at Trump or his campaign.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:05 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


I would have to be looking at your posts without your knowledge (i.e. secretly) - I assume you are aware this is a public site?


But the Russians assumed they were being monitored, so I guess it wasn't spying after all.


Lol, if your argument is that reading posts on a website is the same as secretly recording phone calls, then I will just leave your argument to fall on it's own.


How odd that a semantics professional would ignore one of the several meanings of the word "spying."

ETA: To wit: "discern or make out, especially by careful observation."

Cite


So, you agree then that spying is the correct term for the actions of the Obama administration against the Trump campaign. Good.


What a puerile tactic!

Spying (in the sense I mentioned) is the correct term for what you do with DJW001's posts; that is all I have implied.

Spying as used fallaciously by you to refer to criminal investigations is imprecise, unreasonable and misleading.


Funny, so I am spying by reading posts, but secretly recording Flynn's calls is not spying?
Hilarious.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:06 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth


I am framing the actual events according to what we know. I can't help it if you want to soften what actually happened. That is you choice.
It's a bit rich for you to complain about negative connotations given your history of assuming the worst in the absence of evidence on every accusation levelled at Trump or his campaign.


I know you are but what am I?




posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

You just clearly stated above that you weren't claiming that the whole "Obama Administration" was "spying" on anyone and now they are again.

Which is it?

Your comments grow increasingly confused and desperate.



I did not at any point say the 'whole' administration.
As yet we do not know who in Obama's administration was involved in the spying, we've just had confirmation that the FBI were, and as stated their authorisation comes from the President's administration - specifically the DoJ.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:08 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


I would have to be looking at your posts without your knowledge (i.e. secretly) - I assume you are aware this is a public site?


But the Russians assumed they were being monitored, so I guess it wasn't spying after all.


Lol, if your argument is that reading posts on a website is the same as secretly recording phone calls, then I will just leave your argument to fall on it's own.


How odd that a semantics professional would ignore one of the several meanings of the word "spying."

ETA: To wit: "discern or make out, especially by careful observation."

Cite


So, you agree then that spying is the correct term for the actions of the Obama administration against the Trump campaign. Good.


What a puerile tactic!

Spying (in the sense I mentioned) is the correct term for what you do with DJW001's posts; that is all I have implied.

Spying as used fallaciously by you to refer to criminal investigations is imprecise, unreasonable and misleading.


Funny, so I am spying by reading posts, but secretly recording Flynn's calls is not spying?
Hilarious.


You are spying (in the sense of the word I posted which you had foolishly or ignorantly denied) on DJW001's posts.

In the sense of the word you mean, i.e. illicit or secret work against a foreign government, then Flynn's phone conversations were recorded because of "spying" on foreign officials, not Flynn.

You really do seem confused here, UK.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


I am framing the actual events according to what we know. I can't help it if you want to soften what actually happened. That is you choice.
It's a bit rich for you to complain about negative connotations given your history of assuming the worst in the absence of evidence on every accusation levelled at Trump or his campaign.


I know you are but what am I?



Ah, you don't like being called out for repeatedly doing the same thing you are whining about.
The "I know you are but what am I? " is a transparent retort when one has had their hypocrisy highlighted for them.
I view it as an admission



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:10 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Again, you don't seem to understand generic reference ... when you say "the Obama Administration" you ARE referring to it as a whole.

If you mean to be specific and say "FBI" or "Department of Justice" as parts of the Administration, just do so.

Or, admit that you're playing sophomoric semantics and we can all move on.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


I would have to be looking at your posts without your knowledge (i.e. secretly) - I assume you are aware this is a public site?


But the Russians assumed they were being monitored, so I guess it wasn't spying after all.


Lol, if your argument is that reading posts on a website is the same as secretly recording phone calls, then I will just leave your argument to fall on it's own.


How odd that a semantics professional would ignore one of the several meanings of the word "spying."

ETA: To wit: "discern or make out, especially by careful observation."

Cite


So, you agree then that spying is the correct term for the actions of the Obama administration against the Trump campaign. Good.


What a puerile tactic!

Spying (in the sense I mentioned) is the correct term for what you do with DJW001's posts; that is all I have implied.

Spying as used fallaciously by you to refer to criminal investigations is imprecise, unreasonable and misleading.


Funny, so I am spying by reading posts, but secretly recording Flynn's calls is not spying?
Hilarious.


You are spying (in the sense of the word I posted which you had foolishly or ignorantly denied) on DJW001's posts.

In the sense of the word you mean, i.e. illicit or secret work against a foreign government, then Flynn's phone conversations were recorded because of "spying" on foreign officials, not Flynn.

You really do seem confused here, UK.


Ah, so you are taking two meanings and using the one you want for each example... to conclude (which is funny) that I am spying on members by looking at posts, but Flynn was not been spied on when he had his calls secretly recorded and transcripts shared.

No confusion at all, I know exactly what you mean.. and it's hilarious.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:20 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Again, you don't seem to understand generic reference ... when you say "the Obama Administration" you ARE referring to it as a whole.

If you mean to be specific and say "FBI" or "Department of Justice" as parts of the Administration, just do so.

Or, admit that you're playing sophomoric semantics and we can all move on.


No, I am referring to what I say I am referring to.
For clarity, people within the Obama administration were spying on the Trump campaign.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Not at all.

DJW001 was using one sense of the word to refer to your observation of their posts.

You are using another sense of the word to overstate what has happened to some Trump associates.

DJW001 was pointing to the silly word games you're attempting to play and getting called out on.

You've admitted here that the entire Obama Administration was not surveilling the Trump Campaign, you've admitted that aside from what the FBI and by extension the DOJ have revealed you don't have any evidence of any other surveillance of anyone, and furthermore, you've done nothing to prove that any American has been "spied" on ...

And now you're desperately trying to muddy the waters after dumping barrels of red herring in ...

I'd say even the staunchest Trump zealots here are embarrassed by your performance.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:24 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Again, you don't seem to understand generic reference ... when you say "the Obama Administration" you ARE referring to it as a whole.

If you mean to be specific and say "FBI" or "Department of Justice" as parts of the Administration, just do so.

Or, admit that you're playing sophomoric semantics and we can all move on.


No, I am referring to what I say I am referring to.
For clarity, people within the Obama administration were spying on the Trump campaign.


The whole Trump campaign? Or merely some associates of Trump?

I really want to help you improve your reference here. Be specific.



posted on Mar, 22 2017 @ 06:24 AM
link   

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Again, you don't seem to understand generic reference ... when you say "the Obama Administration" you ARE referring to it as a whole.

If you mean to be specific and say "FBI" or "Department of Justice" as parts of the Administration, just do so.

Or, admit that you're playing sophomoric semantics and we can all move on.


No, I am referring to what I say I am referring to.
For clarity, people within the Obama administration were spying on the Trump campaign.


Don't you mean people within the IC were spying on foreign targets and people within the Trump campaign got themselves mixed in with it?

If not, which member of Obama's cabinet was sitting at the computer spying on Trump?
edit on 22-3-2017 by introvert because: (no reason given)




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