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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Yes, I will state clearly that the Obama Administration was not spying on Trump associates.

Some Trump associates are under investigation for collusion with foreign powers.

Being under investigation is not spying.

Your purpose here is only to spin words and increase post counts. This is the last post in which I will assist your goal.



You want people to believe that an 8 month investigation by the Intelligence Services has not included any electronic surveillance? Seriously?
Only a fool would suggest that.

It was confirmed by the very fact there has been an 8 month counter intelligence investigation that the Obama Administration was spying on Trump.

Less of your rubbish about my motivations.

edit on 20/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: GuidedKill

You're not even trying to deal with reality.

Do you understand a difference between Donald Trump and those who work for him?

If not, your problems are more profound than this discussion.


Do you understand that when the DEA investigates the Sinaloa Cartel they didn't exclude EL Chapo cause they were only investigating his "organization" and the "people who work for him"

I know this may no feed some agendas but don't be so Naïve my friend. You clearly have your head in the sand or have NO IDEA how investigations work.

HAHA that would be like an investigation into the Mob but only limiting it to the Captains cause they are the ones "colluding" not the actual Mob boss....LAUGHABLE!!!!
edit on 20-3-2017 by GuidedKill because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-3-2017 by GuidedKill because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: GuidedKill
So Comey says there is "no evidence to support the presidents claim that there was surveillance done under Obama".


Nope. Comey confirmed that there was no evidence to claim that Obama ordered any such surveillance. Which is precisely what was at the heart of this thread.

The premise that Trump & Assoc.'s got swept up in Russian Electoral Interference investigation is a foregone conclusion.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

Yuk yuk.

Yes, polls are only useful when they support your beliefs, right?

I mentioned the survey results as a side note. It's obvious to you and me that Trump loses more support by the day.

That's the reason for this hysteria.


As was mentioned on the previous page of the thread, even Comey said
today the media can not be trusted. In other words, they publish fake
news to influence people, which influences the polls.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: GuidedKill

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: GuidedKill

Do you understand that there is no evidence that Trump was surveilled at all at this point?


Do you not understand my question.....How can you investigate someone or their organization and not do any surveillance?? Is that even possible?

I only ask this because I used to be in LE and work narcotics...I can't remember ANY case where I investigated someone and didn't do ANY surveillance.....I only ask what kind of "investigation" doesn't involve surveillance on the suspect is all.


Trump is not being investigated personally, at least as far as reports have shown.

As far as the parroting of the claim that I've said there has been no electronic surveillance, your statement is just as illogical and absurd as the one who made it.

Yes, yes, you're an ex-cop ... who isn't here? There's so many easy claims to make when none of them have to be verified.

But okay, as a LEO then, did you spy on crooks? Or did you perform surveillance?

If you say there's no difference, you're merely lumping yourself in with the other Trump True Believers here.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Yes, I will state clearly that the Obama Administration was not spying on Trump associates.

Some Trump associates are under investigation for collusion with foreign powers.

Being under investigation is not spying.

Your purpose here is only to spin words and increase post counts. This is the last post in which I will assist your goal.


You are correct.

SO what do you call it when details of an investigation start being leaked to the press during an election? Is it ok to deny due process to US citizens whenthey are a candidate?



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: burntheships

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Yuk yuk.

Yes, polls are only useful when they support your beliefs, right?

I mentioned the survey results as a side note. It's obvious to you and me that Trump loses more support by the day.

That's the reason for this hysteria.


As was mentioned on the previous page of the thread, even Comey said
today the media can not be trusted. In other words, they publish fake
news to influence people, which influences the polls.

www.abovetopsecret.com...





You believe Jim Comey now? You're as inconsistent with that as the polls you believe in.

You take a very specific statement that he made about certain reported leaks and desperately try to claim therefore that all media (at least those not sucking up to Trump) are fake.

There's no words for this beyond absurd, ludicrous, asinine, ridiculous, etc, and I'm tired of repeating them.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:51 PM
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I see the pro-Trumpers are still clinging to hope despite the facts.

How very sad.




posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: GuidedKill
So Comey says there is "no evidence to support the presidents claim that there was surveillance done under Obama".


Nope. Comey confirmed that there was no evidence to claim that Obama ordered any such surveillance. Which is precisely what was at the heart of this thread.

The premise that Trump & Assoc.'s got swept up in Russian Electoral Interference investigation is a foregone conclusion.

Yes he did, but he confirmed that there was counter intelligence deployed against Trump associates.

Here is the CIA's own '3rd Commandment' of their '10 Commandments of Counter Intelligence' written in 2007:


The Third Commandment: Own the Street This is so fundamental to CI, but it is probably the least followed of the commandments. Any CI program worthy of the name has to be able to engage the opposition on the street, the field of play for espionage. And when we do go to the street, we have to be the best service there. If we are beaten on the street, it is worse than not having been there at all. For years, we virtually conceded the streets of the world’s capitals, including the major espionage centers, to the KGB, the GRU, and the East European services because we either did not know how to do it or we were not willing to pay the price for a thoroughly professional, reliable, full-time, local surveillance capability. Opposition intelligence officers have to be watched, known meeting areas have to be observed, and, when an operation goes down—often on short notice—undetectable surveillance has to cover it, identify the participants, and obtain evidence. This capability is expensive—selection, training, vehicles, photo gear, video, radios, safe apartments, observation posts, and on and on—but, if we do not have it, we will be a second-rate CI service and will not break the major cases.

www.cia.gov...

It's a near certainty that the Obama Administration was spying on the Trump campaign.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What Candidate has had personal details leaked as part of an investigation? The only one I can think of is Hillary Clinton, so I doubt that's the basis of your argument.

Is this a general question, or a specific one?

If specific, what are you talking about specifically?



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:52 PM
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www.usatoday.com...


“I’ll just ask you, did you brief President Obama on any calls involving Michael Flynn?” Gowdy asked. He was referring specifically to leaked information regarding a phone call between Flynn, President Trump’s former national security adviser, and the ambassador to Russia during the transition. The reports showed that Flynn had discussed sanctions and the discovery ultimately led to his resignation. Gowdy argued that “unmasking” Flynn’s name was a felony because it was part of a confidential intelligence gathering and had previously been “masked” to protect his identity. “I’m not going to get either that particular case, that matter, or any conversations I had involving the president. So I can’t answer that question,” Comey responded.

Without the answer to this question the rest falls apart.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: Kryties
I see the pro-Trumpers are still clinging to hope despite the facts.

How very sad.



We're just relaying the fact that a counter intelligence operation was live against the Trump campaign under the Obama Administration.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
www.usatoday.com...


“I’ll just ask you, did you brief President Obama on any calls involving Michael Flynn?” Gowdy asked. He was referring specifically to leaked information regarding a phone call between Flynn, President Trump’s former national security adviser, and the ambassador to Russia during the transition. The reports showed that Flynn had discussed sanctions and the discovery ultimately led to his resignation. Gowdy argued that “unmasking” Flynn’s name was a felony because it was part of a confidential intelligence gathering and had previously been “masked” to protect his identity. “I’m not going to get either that particular case, that matter, or any conversations I had involving the president. So I can’t answer that question,” Comey responded.

Without the answer to this question the rest falls apart.


Indeed, because if Obama was receiving updates from the counter intelligence operation then he was directly involved.
We certainly need to know exactly who was involved in order to get to the leaker, so they can go to jail.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:55 PM
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Disappointed with the hearing... Nothing but political grandstanding, repetition of unsubstantiated claims and a whole lot of "cant comment" due to the info being classified / confirming / denying investigations etc. Thus far the public hearing has not really answered any of the questions I had.

As for the discussion about Obama ordering something the answer was specific and dealt solely with Trump Tower and wiretapping. It did not include any questions dealing with any other properties that were Trump related or any other type of surveillance.

Also when Comey answered the question about a warrant he answered it from the domestic criminal side only. He stated a few times they are prohibited from discussing anything FISA related. That would include FISA related warrants.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: Kryties
I see the pro-Trumpers are still clinging to hope despite the facts.

How very sad.



I feel like I'm talking to house plants ... did you see the same broadcasts I did? Because apparently some folks saw something completely different.

Apparently now, being investigated by the FBI is equal to being spied on by the Obama Administration.

That's the only hysterical claim that's getting made here, and that's about as irrational as they come.

Am I missing something?



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Trump is not being investigated personally, at least as far as reports have shown.



And quite honestly, even if he were, it's extremely likely it would have been for a damned good reason.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: GuidedKill

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: GuidedKill

Do you understand that there is no evidence that Trump was surveilled at all at this point?


Do you not understand my question.....How can you investigate someone or their organization and not do any surveillance?? Is that even possible?

I only ask this because I used to be in LE and work narcotics...I can't remember ANY case where I investigated someone and didn't do ANY surveillance.....I only ask what kind of "investigation" doesn't involve surveillance on the suspect is all.


Trump is not being investigated personally, at least as far as reports have shown.

As far as the parroting of the claim that I've said there has been no electronic surveillance, your statement is just as illogical and absurd as the one who made it.

Yes, yes, you're an ex-cop ... who isn't here? There's so many easy claims to make when none of them have to be verified.

But okay, as a LEO then, did you spy on crooks? Or did you perform surveillance?

If you say there's no difference, you're merely lumping yourself in with the other Trump True Believers here.



OK so once again they aren't investigating Trump, just his people...So by your logic they didn't investigate say Enron's Executives just Enron as a company right?? Cause the Executives have nothing to do with the company operations.... OK

And about the "electronic surveillance" so you do agree they have used "electronic surveillance" but no "wire taps" Got ya again.

As for me sending you my resume...Well I really don't care if you believe me or not, my Sun will still rise and set now matter what you think of me. lol

And spying and surveillance are the same thing...No matter if a warrant exists or not the basic definition of the two are the same...I figured someone as bright as you would know that....Maybe you meant to distinguish between legal and illegal but who knows.

I voted for Trump yes...But he was just the lesser of two evils in my opinion...I could really care less ab



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Here is the problem with getting that answer. Communications among the executive branch and the President that deal with counsel can be withheld via executive privilege.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

This "investigation" would have been in obamas intel briefs.
There is no way obama will maintain plausible deniability.
The investigation started July of 16.
Obamas administration used the law enforcement assets and the intelligence community assets to effect the outcome of the 2016 POTUS election.



posted on Mar, 20 2017 @ 01:59 PM
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Oh yes, how disappointing.

No evidence of illegal surveillance by Obama.

Evidence confirmed of investigations into Trump associates for colluding with a foreign power.

Evidence confirmed of Russian interference in the US General Election.

Actually, that clears this matter up complete for any rational person.




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