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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

None of that, sadly, is surprising.

I guess one of the questions I have from the Napalitano information suggested, basically, that every communication by everybody in the United States and UK are constantly recorded and stored in a database.

Now, I know that the NSA has that capability, but the situation is really more complex than that, right?

It's not like looking up a phone number or address.


I think the key thing to note is that the relationship between the NSA and GCHQ has been growing for some time, so it is not really a stretch to believe that the GCHQ COULD be used for spying on American citizens either directly or through data sharing with the NSA.

thecritique.co.uk...


There is much available information about leaked joint operations that are worth exploring, but one in particular has been the subject of much interest; namely the surveillance system codenamed PRISM. PRISM allows the NSA to “receive” emails, video clips, photos, voice and video calls, social networking details, log-ins and other data held by US internet firms. The Washington Post explains that PRISM gives the NSA access to real-time surveillance, including notifications showing when a target logged on or sent an email, as well as the ability to monitor voice and text chats as they happen. The Guardian revealed that according to leaked documents, GCHQ were using PRISM from 2010 onwards. The program appears to allow GCHQ to circumvent the formal legal process required to seek personal material such as emails, photos and videos from an internet company based outside of the UK.

The following operation contains more evidence that the sharing of potentially illegal systems and techniques for capturing and analysing citizen’s sensitive data is readily shared. This operation is named WINDSTOP and its revelation implicated not just GCHQ in its close ties to the NSA. The Washington Post was the first to explore this operation under the headline ‘One month, hundreds of millions of records collected.’ The details included in this article reveal that GCHQ sent 181 million records collected from one of their operating stations to the NSA. While WINDSTOP is essentially a data collection operation, the leaked document discloses that Canada, Australia and New Zealand also contribute records to the operation. This fact gives the NSA the ability to analyse vast quantities of private information belonging to many people.


The bolded part - mine - is interesting as if the UK can circumvent such laws I'd suspect the US can too.
I read an article that I now can't find, that suggested that even if Obama did do what has been claimed, then he has not broken any laws. The same article suggested that Congress should quickly close this loop hole through law.
edit on 14/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Someone in this thread also mentioned ECHELON earlier.

Seems like that might be related (haven't dug into it) to what you posted.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Yeah, I wasn't going to point out that if the Obama Administration asked for this from the UK, no laws were broken.

Napolitano said the same thing. He also said (out of context at best) the the US could spy on anyone at any time without a warrant. Well, maybe so, but it couldn't be used in court ...

This seems to be one of those perfect conspiracy walnuts ... we can't disprove or prove the assertion, but boy does it sound scary (bad, etc.)



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Someone in this thread also mentioned ECHELON earlier.

Seems like that might be related (haven't dug into it) to what you posted.


I recall something about ECHELON, but not sure if it is just another code name for the same thing.
Found this, seems to be much older and not of GCHQ's involvement.
techcrunch.com...

edit on 14/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Yeah, I wasn't going to point out that if the Obama Administration asked for this from the UK, no laws were broken.

Napolitano said the same thing. He also said (out of context at best) the the US could spy on anyone at any time without a warrant. Well, maybe so, but it couldn't be used in court ...

This seems to be one of those perfect conspiracy walnuts ... we can't disprove or prove the assertion, but boy does it sound scary (bad, etc.)


I think it goes further than just the exclusion of such information in court... I don't think it can be shared.
The President can request the details, but not sure whether the NSA can pass it around...until Jan 2017 at least when the new EO was signed.

The legalities aside, if it does turn out to be true, it's shockingly bad PR for Obama's ex administration.
edit on 14/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Yeah, I wasn't going to point out that if the Obama Administration asked for this from the UK, no laws were broken.

Napolitano said the same thing. He also said (out of context at best) the the US could spy on anyone at any time without a warrant. Well, maybe so, but it couldn't be used in court ...

This seems to be one of those perfect conspiracy walnuts ... we can't disprove or prove the assertion, but boy does it sound scary (bad, etc.)


I think it goes further than just the exclusion of such information in court... I don't think it can be shared.
The President can request the details, but not sure whether the NSA can pass it around...until Jan 2017 at least when the new EO was signed.


Which as you and I have pointed out (to seemingly no interest from anyone) Trump has not cancelled that EO ...

You have a point on the "sharing" thing ... but let's be real ... spooks and politicians? LOL.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Someone in this thread also mentioned ECHELON earlier.

Seems like that might be related (haven't dug into it) to what you posted.


They're basically all sister programs...one of the first iterations of mass data gathering was in the early 50's, but there was no nomenclature for it as it was supposed to remain classified forever...this involved (oddly) what Trump tweeted about...actual "wiretapping" the physical copper POTS service lines. In the late 1990's, more specifically as the internet in it's current form gained popularity following the release of Windows 95, DARPA and the FBI launched a program called the DCS-1000. DCS-1000 was basically a monster of a listening device, if you will, that captured all traffic in and out of whichever respective carrier it was implemented into. At the time, MCI, AT&T, Bell (in all its various forms and as Verizon was buying up all of Bell's interests) to do nothing more than disseminate every email, text, (what little at the time there was of) VOIP, everything on the up/down pipes for the carrier to later be extrapolated for further review.

Enter ECHELON, the new and improved DCS-1000 (as Carlin would say, is it NEW or IMPROVED, it can't be both) being more grand in it's scope and able to process data in real-time, this gave alphabets an enormous advantage DEA, FBI, NSA, CIA...all enjoyed the benefits of ECHELON.

Now, we have PRISM, a changing technology for a changing world...as outlined by UK.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Yeah, I wasn't going to point out that if the Obama Administration asked for this from the UK, no laws were broken.

Napolitano said the same thing. He also said (out of context at best) the the US could spy on anyone at any time without a warrant. Well, maybe so, but it couldn't be used in court ...

This seems to be one of those perfect conspiracy walnuts ... we can't disprove or prove the assertion, but boy does it sound scary (bad, etc.)


I think it goes further than just the exclusion of such information in court... I don't think it can be shared.
The President can request the details, but not sure whether the NSA can pass it around...until Jan 2017 at least when the new EO was signed.


Which as you and I have pointed out (to seemingly no interest from anyone) Trump has not cancelled that EO ...

You have a point on the "sharing" thing ... but let's be real ... spooks and politicians? LOL.


He either does not know about it, is using it for his own ends, or is letting people continue to use it to weed out the 'bad' actors. Who knows which.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Yeah, I wasn't going to point out that if the Obama Administration asked for this from the UK, no laws were broken.

Napolitano said the same thing. He also said (out of context at best) the the US could spy on anyone at any time without a warrant. Well, maybe so, but it couldn't be used in court ...

This seems to be one of those perfect conspiracy walnuts ... we can't disprove or prove the assertion, but boy does it sound scary (bad, etc.)


I think it goes further than just the exclusion of such information in court... I don't think it can be shared.
The President can request the details, but not sure whether the NSA can pass it around...until Jan 2017 at least when the new EO was signed.


Which as you and I have pointed out (to seemingly no interest from anyone) Trump has not cancelled that EO ...

You have a point on the "sharing" thing ... but let's be real ... spooks and politicians? LOL.


He either does not know about it, is using it for his own ends, or is letting people continue to use it to weed out the 'bad' actors. Who knows which.


Yep, and maybe all three, if someone near him is using it for their own ends (which is a lot of what I personally believe is happening in some of the more crazy episodes thus far.)

After what Assange said ... I suddenly got worried about the President. I know that seems odd.

Because "these people" ... if they can't accomplish their goal one way, they'll do it another. And Mr. Trump is a 70-year old under more stress than he has been in his entire life.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
This seems to be one of those perfect conspiracy walnuts ... we can't disprove or prove the assertion, but boy does it sound scary (bad, etc.)


Honestly, either scenario is scary. To know that we can be spied upon at any time is scary.

To think the former Obama Administration employees got it into their minds that they needed to spy on a private citizen without provocation or corroborating evidence or probable cause is scary.

To think that the President of the United States is potentially lying to her people is scary.


To me, there is no outcome here that is a feel-good outcome. All of them are scary. I view it much the way I viewed day to day life with me Ex-Wife....there was no winning with her, all of my gains were measured by degrees of losing.
edit on 14-3-2017 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-3-2017 by alphabetaone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: alphabetaone

Yep. I'm not sure I like it when we really dig down through all the crappy breadcrumbs "they" leave for us ... and get to the real deal.

I guess the only "security" to be had in this world is just to remain as "uninteresting" as possible.

Yuck.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: alphabetaone

Yes.

All options on all "sides" do nothing but stir up anxiety, anger, fear and angst.

It's almost like someone, somewhere were planning it that way.




posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: alphabetaone

Yes.

All options on all "sides" do nothing but stir up anxiety, anger, fear and angst.

It's almost like someone, somewhere were planning it that way.



Well, I'm not convinced there was some "Grand Design" on having the cards fall into place as some who embrace a master NWO plan...I just cant bring myself to buy into that.

What I *DO* believe, is that poor impulse control and lack of scruples have more played a part in it all. What I mean is much like what was originally said of the Atomic Bomb.... "the question isn't whether or not we CAN build it; the question is whether or not we SHOULD build it", in the same way when things started coming to light with respect to what was possible technologically, someone with scruples would have said "No. We wont do that"...human beings in general don't necessarily learn from their mistakes where power and greed are concerned.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: alphabetaone

I don't believe in an Eye ... I believe in Eyes (and Ears, Noses, Mouths, etc.), LOL.

More seriously, I believe that there are a multitude of international factions that interweave with each other in economic, military and political (I include formal religions) circles. And most of them don't like being exposed, but some just can't resist dropping breadcrumbs along the way.

They are all smarter than us, you know.


As far as the limitations on our technology, the only thing I know for sure is that anything that can be done, will be done.

Not to divert the thread, but my general take is that we have concentrated on the objective and material (and have acquired great power and a degree of local control) over the world ... but that we left behind the subjective, mental, deeper human characteristics that might help us ... survive in the long run.

I dunno. Much to say on these matters. Oddly enough, that's what brought me to ATS in the beginning.



edit on 14-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 03:23 PM
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I think that those of us discussing this here can agree that whatever happened in this situation, there are clearly problems with the seemingly massive powers of the intelligence agencies, and they need to be reigned in.

People on all pilitcal sides should demand more accountability from these agencies.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
I think that those of us discussing this here can agree that whatever happened in this situation, there are clearly problems with the seemingly massive powers of the intelligence agencies, and they need to be reigned in.

People on all pilitcal sides should demand more accountability from these agencies.


Sure, no questions, quibbles or quandaries there. Agreed.

However, and I'm guessing you won't care for this observation Grambler, Mr. Trump seems to be telegraphing that he's willing to Play Ball with the IC.

A few things are coming together on that for me ... his decision on turning the CIA loose with drones, the fact that he hasn't done away with the "information-sharing" EO.

And no, before you may go there, it's not just "Trump hate."

Given what Assange mentioned on Twitter ... I'm really actually concerned for the President (the man, not the movement).



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth




He either does not know about it, is using it for his own ends, or is letting people continue to use it to weed out the 'bad' actors. Who knows which.
Weed out the bad
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
I think that those of us discussing this here can agree that whatever happened in this situation, there are clearly problems with the seemingly massive powers of the intelligence agencies, and they need to be reigned in.

People on all pilitcal sides should demand more accountability from these agencies.


I don't disagree, honestly I don't.

But if we're all going to be perfectly honest, it goes way deeper than just simple accountability from the Intelligence agencies.

I think even for those who continuously post Pro-Trump messages, I think if they employ close introspection they would likely agree that they are battling not necessarily because they think what's happening in Government is right, but because Trump was their choice. And when a persons choice feels affronted, it drives a natural instinct to fight about it. Much the same way if a best friend comments on a newly purchased automobile... "That's a crappy car"...whether or not it's a crappy car becomes secondary to the battle about it being the other persons "choice" now that that choice has been challenged. The same logic applies to anyone staunchly fighting in the Obama camp.

The reality of it is though, what has changed? We're still fighting the same nonsense party-line battles. We're still no closer to trusting our Government. We're still no closer as Americans. We're still splitting hairs about he-said she-said garbage. The problem isn't with who is in office....the problem is US, our complacency, our pride, our ignorance, and our disillusionment. No matter which way you slice it, we are the problem.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: alphabetaone

You forgot to

/dropmic

Well said



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 04:31 PM
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Monica Crowley, who almost took a job with the trump admin has registered as a foreign agent. she'll be representing a guy named viktor pinchuk.

pinchuk is a ukrainian businessman who has been pushing for the handover of Ukraine to Putin.

she would have been michael flynn's deputy. just wow.


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