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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

The usual childish response. Please follow events and use your brain.


You are going to have to find a way of exposing your fantasy world to the public for me to follow the events you are talking about.
In that sense, I'd have to use your brain, which is not really possible or desirable.


Well, actually, he's declared portions of the press "the enemy of the People." So yeah, he kind of is acting like a tin-pot despot in some ways. He's calling for greater legal limitations on the right to publish, he's planning to increase the number of Federal officers (INS) by around 15,000 last count, and if that's not providing him with a ready and willing "police squad" under his direct control ... I'm not sure what would be.

And yes, as Chief Executive his responsibility is to enforce the nation's laws, but almost all of those laws give great administrative attitude to how a President does that. Arguing that people who have been productive tax-paying members of our society for decades in some cases are now "a threat" ... seems a lot like the words of a xenophobe, or ... a tyrant trying to set up a phantom menace in order to gain more power ...

... so, objectively, DJW has some reasonable points ... even if they are expressed passionately.


Having a view on portions of the press that are attacking him at every turn (often unreasonably) is not despotic, unless you consider your first amendment despotic. Similar with libel laws. If he changes the law to make it harder to criticise him, then there would be cause for complaint, or dare I say use his office to spy on journalists...

Increasing resources as required to enforce the laws on the books is not the definition of a police state. In such a state, the police force is used to enforce a totalitarian agenda, nothing like what he is doing.

In terms of applying immigration law, there is unfortunately no getting around the fact that some people who are indeed productive will be caught up in it. That does not mean he is going after those people. He is applying law already on the books. Tyrannical behaviour would be breaking the laws are forcing new draconian laws through some form of coercion.

Phrases like despotic, authoritarian, 'police state', fascist are easy to type, especially when one vehemently disagrees with a leaders position on a particular subject, but that does not mean they align with reality.
edit on 14/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

They can run but they can't hide.
It's the presses job to ask the tough questions.
He's got the hardest job in the world. Maybe he should have thought twice before throwing his hat in the ring.
No we're not going to cut them any slack. This is the job he applied for. And Spicer agreed to be his mouth piece. Guess no one told him he was going to have to learn to tap dance too.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:45 AM
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Slightly closer to topic ... Breitbart apparently released audio of Paul Ryan back in the campaign saying clearly that he didn't feel that Trump was a true representative of the Republican Party and that he would NEVER support him.

Breitbart

Interesting that Ryan feels this way about Mr. Trump, and yet, has kow-towed to him in public.

I wonder if this attitude might be prevalent among Congressional Republicans ... and whether these investigations that we've been discussing here might be a backdoor toward ... what? Bringing Trump in line? Replacing him with Pence?

I don't pretend to know. Shocking that Ryan is portraying such a two-faced perspective on the President though.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Slightly closer to topic ... Breitbart apparently released audio of Paul Ryan back in the campaign saying clearly that he didn't feel that Trump was a true representative of the Republican Party and that he would NEVER support him.

Breitbart

Interesting that Ryan feels this way about Mr. Trump, and yet, has kow-towed to him in public.

I wonder if this attitude might be prevalent among Congressional Republicans ... and whether these investigations that we've been discussing here might be a backdoor toward ... what? Bringing Trump in line? Replacing him with Pence?

I don't pretend to know. Shocking that Ryan is portraying such a two-faced perspective on the President though.


This was reported by some of those on the call at the time, and now we have the audio to confirm it. Ryan is interested in only one thing, in my opinion...himself. It's possible (actually probable) that there are a few Republicans that want Trump out, but they need to be very careful... acting on it may actually destroy the majority they have in the House and Senate. Hence, I think they will continue to clap on queue until such a time as an opportunity arises...it makes the outcome of the investigations even more important.

The political game playing is a very big part of the problem with Govt.
edit on 14/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:51 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66
First, I hate Ryan. I think he is a slimy salesman.

BUT maybe he has made the decision that the American people voted on a President and it is his job to work with him. Novel idea he has there!



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

That the press is "attacking him at every turn" is, however, an opinion not shared by all. For example, what I see is a egoistic President that is so used to having his commands followed to the letter that he's now making one strategic mistake after another. The Presidency doesn't work that way. The President's powers are limited. He's adjusting to that.

Whatever his feeling about the national press, however, and even if they are "attacking him"... that still falls under the protections of the First Amendment. To call the press "the ENEMY of the People" is to adopt the words of tyrants and despots the world over ... so I disagree completely on your first point.

Sorry, an increase in the domestic Federal police force is an increase in government however you want to look at it. Expanding the powers and funding of INS as he intends to do is growing the government AND, as I said, provides him with a ready to hand force of goons should he choose to use them that way. The power of the Executive in the enforcement of immigration laws is nearly absolute. He's not constrained as he would be with the FBI or ATF.

Yes, those words (tyrant, despot, etc.) are easy to type (and were commonly typed by "those on the Right" in even more illegitimate reference to the previous President). And yes, they are emotion-laden words, surely.

That fact doesn't mean they aren't descriptive however, nor accurate when they apply.
edit on 14-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:53 AM
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originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: Gryphon66
First, I hate Ryan. I think he is a slimy salesman.

BUT maybe he has made the decision that the American people voted on a President and it is his job to work with him. Novel idea he has there!



That would require a belief that a senior politician puts what is good for the country, or the right thing to do, ahead of his or her own interests. I'd love to believe in that, but I can't bring myself to.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: Gryphon66
First, I hate Ryan. I think he is a slimy salesman.

BUT maybe he has made the decision that the American people voted on a President and it is his job to work with him. Novel idea he has there!



That would require a belief that a senior politician puts what is good for the country, or the right thing to do, ahead of his or her own interests. I'd love to believe in that, but I can't bring myself to.


More stuff we agree on. Ryan is a hack and a liar. He's lost his objectively, ironically, in an Objectivist daydream.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:57 AM
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originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: Gryphon66
First, I hate Ryan. I think he is a slimy salesman.

BUT maybe he has made the decision that the American people voted on a President and it is his job to work with him. Novel idea he has there!



Well, I know it's important to your narrative that "the American people" elected Trump, but, again, the reality is that most voted against him. But, I digress.

Ryan is working for his personal political agenda and nothing more. If you can't see that such exposures of how they actually talk about Trump points to the possibility (at least) that they are considering ways to bridle him or rid themselves of him, I'd say you're being a bit blinded by your regard for Mr. Trump.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

Would you accept that kind of behavior from your children. Even if they're grown.
Why do people always talk about making money as a virtue of his? Anyone can make money. Yeah even you.
His bank account doesn't prove he's smart or nice. He's personally a failure. In his poise and character he's a delinquent. And America is hating everything he does. We are going to dog him with every word he says and every stupid move he makes. Every day. Without stop. I hope he realizes were just getting started.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: DreamerOracle

Koolaide laced with bourbon.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

Need a hug silly?

*Hugs silly*



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Grimpachi

Sorry.
They seem to be everywhere.
And to be honest, that's what the hearing on the twentieth is about.
But again.
Sorry.
It's trump and evidence of wire taps.


In your opinion, but your opinion counts for no-one but yourself.


Really? Can you prove that? You just keep getting nastier and nastier. Why?



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

It sure has been the central theme. When certain people aren't slinging mud at other members and arguing nit picky nonsense like children that is. Yes you are, no I'm not, I'm rubber you're glue, I know you are but what am I... bull#. It's very tiring reading that crap.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:13 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

That the press is "attacking him at every turn" is, however, an opinion not shared by all. For example, what I see is a egoistic President that is so used to having his commands followed to the letter that he's now making one strategic mistake after another. The Presidency doesn't work that way. The President's powers are limited. He's adjusting to that.

Whatever his feeling about the national press, however, and even if they are "attacking him"... that still falls under the protections of the First Amendment. To call the press "the ENEMY of the People" is to adopt the words of tyrants and despots the world over ... so I disagree completely on your first point.

Sorry, an increase in the domestic Federal police force is an increase in government however you want to look at it. Expanding the powers and funding of INS as he intends to do is growing the government AND, as I said, provides him with a ready to hand force of goons should he choose to use them that way. The power of the Executive in the enforcement of immigration laws is nearly absolute. He's not constrained as he would be with the FBI or ATF.

Yes, those words are easy to type (and were commonly typed by "those on the Right" in even more illegitimate reference to the previous President). And yes, they are emotion-laden words, surely.

That fact doesn't mean they aren't descriptive however, nor accurate when they apply.


What matters is what Trump himself thinks - even if you think he is wrong, and whether I think he is right. If he believes the press is being unfair and are working against the people, then he has the right to say it, surely? The press have no protection AGAINST the first amendment of others. Now, if he used his office to stop the press saying what they want within the bounds of the law, then I'd be critical.

The power of the Executive to enforce immigration law is significant, but the key word is 'law'. Increasing the workforce is not despotic.


edit on 14/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Grimpachi

Sorry.
They seem to be everywhere.
And to be honest, that's what the hearing on the twentieth is about.
But again.
Sorry.
It's trump and evidence of wire taps.


In your opinion, but your opinion counts for no-one but yourself.


Really? Can you prove that? You just keep getting nastier and nastier. Why?



Can I prove it is your opinion? Yes, of course, you said it.
Can I prove that your opinion is only your opinion. Well, yes, unless you have found a way to duplicate yourself.

edit on 14/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

As a private citizen? Yes, of course he had the right to say whatever he wished.

As the President of the United States? That's a position like no other in the world. His words can crash world markets. Whether he has "the right" to say it or not (technically he does) he should have more wisdom and gravitas than to bust out his every impulsive thought (as he does.)

When the President designates a group as "the enemy of the People" that has consequences. That awesome power is not to be used lightly. Such a statement is one stroke of a pen away from declaring these media groups as domestic terrorists (as some have done, here.)

"Increasing the workforce is not despotic"? LOL, interesting spin. I agree ... and that's not what I said.

Increasing the INS "workforce" is growing the government (as is increasing the military budget by 54B). My point about the stench of despotism related to this action is that he is establishing a Federal Domestic Police Force that is almost COMPLETELY under his very wide-ranging powers in the area of immigration and that force would be beholden to Trump and Trump alone because he "brought their jobs back and he's keeping the country safe."

That, to me, speaks for itself in terms of it's relationship to POSSIBLE despotic or tyrannical actions.

edit on 14-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:28 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Like telling people their opinions don't matter?



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

No prove my opinion doesn't matter to anyone but me.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

Maybe "give a little to get a little" Silly?




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