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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 06:32 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth


Yes, there is more evidence, though scant, that the DHS hacked the election than any influence the Russians had.


Don't you love how the Kremlin disinformation machine keeps confounding "hacking" with "influence?" It helps muddle people's perceptions and thinking about what is going on. There is a difference between some sort of electronic voter fraud-- which has never been claimed by anyone-- and massive agitprop. Agitprop is easy to do in a nation with freedom of expression. The irony is that the President wants to roll back the very freedoms, the abuse of which, got him elected.




posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 06:35 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth


Yes, there is more evidence, though scant, that the DHS hacked the election than any influence the Russians had.


Don't you love how the Kremlin disinformation machine keeps confounding "hacking" with "influence?" It helps muddle people's perceptions and thinking about what is going on. There is a difference between some sort of electronic voter fraud-- which has never been claimed by anyone-- and massive agitprop. Agitprop is easy to do in a nation with freedom of expression. The irony is that the President wants to roll back the very freedoms, the abuse of which, got him elected.


Actually it was the left wing spin machines that associated hacking with influence. For weeks, happily less so now, the narrative was that Russia hacked the election. It seems to just be about influence now, for which there is zero proof either, which makes your claims of agitprop being the reason Trump was elected a completely false and unsubstantiated narrative.
edit on 10/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 06:45 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

Spin, spin, spin. Why did Trump change the wording of the party platform concerning the Russian invasion and occupation of Crimea while Manafort was his adviser? What additional meetings were there that have not yet been discovered? Why did the Duma toast Trump's victory? An investigation is more than warranted.


The wording of the party platform was not changed by Trump to help Russia. An amendment was proposed by someone else who wanted the use of lethal force included in the platform. That amendment was watered down to exclude the use of lethal force. Nice spin to suggest the party platform was altered by Trump to in some way help Russia, but no basis in reality.

Revisiting The Persistent Myth That The Trump Campaign Changed The GOP Platform To Help Russia

You are speculating about more meetings... Here i will try.. How do we know that Obama was not wire tapping the Trump campaign from the start and feeding information directly to the press? We could go on with unsubstantiated nonsense but it's best not to.

As for Duma, he was not the only one. Millions around the world toasted the fact that a war mongering demon like Hillary Clinton was not getting into the Oval Office.

As for an investigation, there is one, again with no evidence of any wrong doing to date.

So yes... spin, spin, spin... that is ALL you have. When you have some evidence, please let us know.

edit on 10/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 06:53 AM
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Its funny about this Russia/Trump thing the MSM peddles ...They were wrong leading up to the election and have only doubled down sense then ...But it seems that there is a majority not being reported in the MSM that are not buying it .



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

So ... a very uptight guy who makes a video proves that the majority agrees with you (and him)?

So there's "nothing there" with any Trump agent colluding with Russians? Why are they all lying about it then?

LOL

What kind of world are we living in?



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:13 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

The investigation is not over ... well, its good that you recognize that.

Yes, Clapper said he knew of nothing proving collusion ... through the time of his tenure. He also said that Donald Trump was not tapped by Barack Obama. Still amazes me that you guys can hear one and adopt it as your battle hymn, but totally ignore the other.

The same way you ignore official after official who says unequivically that the Russians interfered in our election.

When you need the IC to support your narrative, you can trust them implicitly ... when you're desperately trying to discredit anything that shines a light on Dear Leader Trump, suddenly, they are universally condemned. And you don't even get tired from the profound mental gymnastics you have to perform to maintain that irrationality.

Yes, several have said there's no clear evidence ... no "smoking gun" ... YET ... in off-handed comments to the press.

While it shouldn't be necessary to state such an obvious thing to adults ... THE INVESTIGATION IS ON GOING. It's not finished. The eight members of Congress with the highest security clearances heard from the FBI Director YESTERDAY on the progress, and what was the result? If the principals under investigation (Flynn, Stone, etc.) won't testify before Congress they will be subpoenaed.

Sure, that sounds like they have no reason based on what they know (and you don't) to continue the investigation.

So folks like you who are SO ready to declare "There's nothing here" are just going to have to chill your jets, because, no, I don't have a "smoking gun" either, but what I do have is the clear indication that there is still more here than we've been fed in the media.

Conversely, all we have to date is a bunch of Trump-lovers who can't tolerate even the slightest insult to their cult-leader, who post the most irrational and wandering absurdities and expect the rest of us to just accept such nonsense as fact.
edit on 10-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:17 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

The investigation is not over ... well, its good that you recognize that.

Yes, Clapper said he knew of nothing proving collusion ... through the time of his tenure.

Yes, several others have said there's no clear evidence ... no "smoking gun" ... in off-handed comments to the press.

But the investigation goes on, and while it shouldn't be necessary to state such an obvious thing to adults ... THE INVESTIGATION IS ON GOING. It's not finished. The eight members of Congress with the highest security clearances heard from the FBI Director YESTERDAY on the progress, and what was the result? If the principals under investigation (Flynn, Stone, etc.) won't testify before Congress they will be subpoenaed.

Sure, that sounds like they have no reason based on what they know (and you don't) to continue the investigation.

So folks like you who are SO ready to declare "There's nothing here" are just going to have to chill your jets, because, no, I don't have a "smoking gun" either, but what I do have is the clear indication that there is still more here than we've been fed in the media.

Conversely, all we have to date is a bunch of Trump-lovers who can't tolerate even the slightest insult to their cult-leader, who post the most irrational and wandering absurdities and expect the rest of us to just accept such nonsense as fact.


The point being made is that there is no evidence as yet. It's not hard to understand, and should be obvious to adults, that the assumption of guilt or pretending to know there is 'more here' is nothing more than speculation driven by political agenda. It is CORRECT to assume innocence until guilt is proven, so any equivalency being drawn with those that are assuming innocence is false. The only honest reporting is that there is an accusation, an investigation, and as yet there is nothing proven.


edit on 10/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth



The wording of the party platform was not changed by Trump to help Russia. An amendment was proposed by someone else who wanted the use of lethal force included in the platform. That amendment was watered down to exclude the use of lethal force. Nice spin to suggest the party platform was altered by Trump to in some way help Russia, but no basis in reality.


While the platform was not changed by Trump himself, it was reported that there were Trump representatives in the committee meetings that were able to not only get a vote postponed, but also worked with Pro-Trump delegates to change the language and get it passed.

www.npr.org...
www.washingtonpost.com... 6b37f256_story.html?utm_term=.b1a4c9955569



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:22 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth



The wording of the party platform was not changed by Trump to help Russia. An amendment was proposed by someone else who wanted the use of lethal force included in the platform. That amendment was watered down to exclude the use of lethal force. Nice spin to suggest the party platform was altered by Trump to in some way help Russia, but no basis in reality.


While the platform was not changed by Trump himself, it was reported that there were Trump representatives in the committee meetings that were able to not only get a vote postponed, but also worked with Pro-Trump delegates to change the language and get it passed.

www.npr.org...
www.washingtonpost.com... 6b37f256_story.html?utm_term=.b1a4c9955569


Yes, to change the language of a proposed amendment that called for lethal force, or "lethal defensive weapons" against Russia. We should ALL be happy that such a platform amendment was not implemented and there is absolutely no indication that some secret Russian meetings were a prelude to forcing change into the platform to help Russia.


Yates, the subcommittee co-chairman and head of Idaho’s Republican party, vouched for Gordon’s version of events versus Denman’s. “It is an insult to the process and the rights of other delegates on the committee for anyone to suggest that just because her amendment did not succeed 100 percent in tact that there was anything irregular or improper about the process,” Yates told TheDC. He said that there was nothing “unusual or improper” in the Trump representatives’ actions at the platform meeting. “If anything, the Trump campaign had a lighter hand on the platform process than any of its predecessors going back through Romney, McCain, to Bush,” he said.


This story was spun by liberal media to try and prop up the 'Russia' narrative, but the facts are a little less juicy.
edit on 10/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

And then you must admit it also means that there was no wire tap at trump tower .
Clappers statement is either true or it's not.

You can't have half of it true and half not true.



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth



The wording of the party platform was not changed by Trump to help Russia. An amendment was proposed by someone else who wanted the use of lethal force included in the platform. That amendment was watered down to exclude the use of lethal force. Nice spin to suggest the party platform was altered by Trump to in some way help Russia, but no basis in reality.


While the platform was not changed by Trump himself, it was reported that there were Trump representatives in the committee meetings that were able to not only get a vote postponed, but also worked with Pro-Trump delegates to change the language and get it passed.

www.npr.org...
www.washingtonpost.com... 6b37f256_story.html?utm_term=.b1a4c9955569


Yes, to change the language of a proposed amendment that called for lethal force. We should ALL be happy that such a platform amendment was not implemented and there is absolutely no indication that some secret Russian meetings were a prelude to forcing change into the platform to help Russia.


So you agree that Trump representatives were involved in the effort to change the language and push to pass it?



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:27 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66
www.cnn.com...



Nunes said he has invited FBI Director James Comey and National Security Agency Director Mike Rogers, as well as former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and former Attorney General Sally Yates, to testify.

This is what I have read from a few sources; care to source your claim


If the principals under investigation (Flynn, Stone, etc.) won't testify before Congress they will be subpoenaed.



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Did you say something about "spin, spin, spin"?

There's no clear evidence as yet. Boy you guys are the masters of partially true statements. The real investigation is just getting started, and Trump, knowing this, pulled the desperate prank of another Twitter tirade making wild unsubstantiated claims that EVERYONE including THE VICE PRESIDENT has carefully backed away from.

Jim Clapper said CLEARLY that there were no wiretaps, and yet, that falls on deaf ears. You only hear what you want to hear.

There's zero reason to ASSUME innocence when two Trump associates have already admitted (by their actions) lying about their Russian connections and three more are about to have to fess up.

How ironic is that you endlessly shriek that "THERE'S NOTHING PROVEN" about collusion but have already fitted Mr. Obama for an orange jump suit for his imaginary wiretapping.

It's beyond dishonesty. It's beyond disingenuous ignorance. It's ... mania, pure and simple.



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:30 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth



The wording of the party platform was not changed by Trump to help Russia. An amendment was proposed by someone else who wanted the use of lethal force included in the platform. That amendment was watered down to exclude the use of lethal force. Nice spin to suggest the party platform was altered by Trump to in some way help Russia, but no basis in reality.


While the platform was not changed by Trump himself, it was reported that there were Trump representatives in the committee meetings that were able to not only get a vote postponed, but also worked with Pro-Trump delegates to change the language and get it passed.

www.npr.org...
www.washingtonpost.com... 6b37f256_story.html?utm_term=.b1a4c9955569


Yes, to change the language of a proposed amendment that called for lethal force. We should ALL be happy that such a platform amendment was not implemented and there is absolutely no indication that some secret Russian meetings were a prelude to forcing change into the platform to help Russia.


So you agree that Trump representatives were involved in the effort to change the language and push to pass it?


Yes, which is nothing unusual, although they were NOT changing the platform, they were changing the words of a proposed amendment to the platform. That's what happens with proposals, you discuss and agree them. As above:


Yates, the subcommittee co-chairman and head of Idaho’s Republican party, vouched for Gordon’s version of events versus Denman’s. “It is an insult to the process and the rights of other delegates on the committee for anyone to suggest that just because her amendment did not succeed 100 percent in tact that there was anything irregular or improper about the process,” Yates told TheDC. He said that there was nothing “unusual or improper” in the Trump representatives’ actions at the platform meeting. “If anything, the Trump campaign had a lighter hand on the platform process than any of its predecessors going back through Romney, McCain, to Bush,” he said.



edit on 10/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

So why DID they lie about the meetings?
And what did they talk about?



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Did you say something about "spin, spin, spin"?

There's no clear evidence as yet. Boy you guys are the masters of partially true statements. The real investigation is just getting started, and Trump, knowing this, pulled the desperate prank of another Twitter tirade making wild unsubstantiated claims that EVERYONE including THE VICE PRESIDENT has carefully backed away from.

Jim Clapper said CLEARLY that there were no wiretaps, and yet, that falls on deaf ears. You only hear what you want to hear.

There's zero reason to ASSUME innocence when two Trump associates have already admitted (by their actions) lying about their Russian connections and three more are about to have to fess up.

How ironic is that you endlessly shriek that "THERE'S NOTHING PROVEN" about collusion but have already fitted Mr. Obama for an orange jump suit for his imaginary wiretapping.

It's beyond dishonesty. It's beyond disingenuous ignorance. It's ... mania, pure and simple.


Wow, that is a weak argument.

Everyone involved so far has said there is no proof of any collusion, hence it is 100% correct to assume innocence. What kind of country do you want to live in? One where there is an assumption of guilt and you have to prove innocence???

You well know that I have not assumed Obama's guilt. In fact, I have also called Trump's statement propaganda, until such a time as evidence is provided.

No Trump associate has admitted to collusion with Russians. Another lie by you.

Stop lying to prop up your crazy notion that it is ok to assume guilt. You have nothing but spin - until evidence, if it exists, is provided.
edit on 10/3/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

They had a "lighter hand" in that the Trump representatives only intervened on this one issue, perhaps?

You may call it liberal spin, but this issue in relation to the bigger picture does leave us with a lot of questions as to their motivations and alliances.



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

So ... it was "several" involved who have said there was no clear evidence of collusion YET, and now it's "everyone."

Yeah, you need to talk about weak arguments.

It's not 100% correct to ASSUME anything. It's not settled. Your point has a tiny bit of merit in the strictest legal sense, but the facts we know are PROFOUND toward proving that there has been collusion (maybe not even ILLEGAL collusion, but collusion none the less).

What kind of country do you want to live in? One where the associates of your Head of State all keep coming up with one revelation of lying and being discredited after another?

I don't know that you haven't assumed Obama's guilt in fact. You waver as your rhetoric demands.

Mike Flynn lied about his connections and resigned over it. Pretty strong admission of guilt there for any reasonable person. The White House ADMITTED yesterday that the Trump Administration DIDN'T KNOW he was working as an agent for the Turkish government!

So in a world where the President of the United States is STILL GETTING SURPRISED about what his underlings have been up to, and they KEEP COMING UP AS COLLUDING AND WORKING WITH FOREIGN POWERS, then it's the least bit of reason required to say THE MATTER ISN'T SETTLED and that THERE IS EVIDENCE OF COORDINATED COMMUNICATIONS.

(Maybe you just couldn't read regular type ... I thought I'd make the obvious facts bigger.)

In regard to dishonesty ...

It's not even clear you still comprehend what a lie is ... what is more than clear is that you say whatever you think you need to make your absurd arguments "work."

Don't throw rocks at me from your glass porch.
edit on 10-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




So ... a very uptight guy who makes a video proves that the majority agrees with you (and him)? So there's "nothing there" with any Trump agent colluding with Russians? Why are they all lying about it then?
He is only one of many www.abovetopsecret.com... They are all lying about it because that is what they do ...Maybe a psychological problem ...



posted on Mar, 10 2017 @ 07:53 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Gryphon66




So ... a very uptight guy who makes a video proves that the majority agrees with you (and him)? So there's "nothing there" with any Trump agent colluding with Russians? Why are they all lying about it then?
He is only one of many www.abovetopsecret.com... They are all lying about it because that is what they do ...Maybe a psychological problem ...


One of several ATS members? LOL. Several ATS members represent "the majority of Americans"

Bwahahaha.

Are you saying that your fellow ATS Trump cult members have a psychological problem?

Hmmm ... that seems a bit harsh.



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