It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

page: 200
158
<< 197  198  199    201  202  203 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Grambler

Well, someday I hope you actually get to beat me intellectually. Today, all you've done is play semantics and post so many logical fallacies I lose interest.

Keep trying though. I'll have an off day sooner or later.





posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

alfa bank is a private bank owned by a private citizen. It is not covered by FISA

The FISA was illegal no matter how you look at it.
edit on 6-3-2017 by Berns4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:02 PM
link   
deleted double post
edit on 6-3-2017 by Berns4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:02 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: Berns4
deleted double post


It is a foreign bank identified in an intelligence investigation involving tampering in US elections by a foreign power. It is covered under FISA.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:04 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

Excellent. I appreciate the reference.

So the FBI would have to have a FISA warrant to monitor foreign agents?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:04 PM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66

Certainly Comey and not Jeff Sessions. He's already in trumps dog house.
And yes I fully expect to see the Comey is a lying pig memes. Which is funny because back in the spring while the investigation was in full swing he was their hero. Until he announced that they didn't have enough for an indictment. He went from hero to zero in a heart beat.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:06 PM
link   
a reply to: Berns4

Weren't you just banned like an hour ago? Lol



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Xcathdra

Excellent. I appreciate the reference.

So the FBI would have to have a FISA warrant to monitor foreign agents?


You're welcome.

That is an area I am not sure of. We routinely monitor foreign agents as a matter of counter intelligence. FISA comes into play with legal actions where a prosecution might occur. Diplomats will have Diplomatic immunity (immunity status will vary by status / classification).

If the Russian Ambassador walked outside the Russian Embassy in Washington DC and shot a US citizen we could not touch him unless the Russian government waived immunity. We could not even detain him with the exception of detaining t confirm diplomatic status. That is one area that gets very dicey.

2 very distinct areas. Its one of the reasons why there are questions about needing a FISA warrant to monitor Russian personnel in the diplomatic arena in the US / overseas.
edit on 6-3-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:09 PM
link   
a reply to: Grambler

I'm going to forgo your answer because I don't want to leave you hanging and it's been a long day for me in the real world.

Neo's article cited the NYT article AS PROOF that Trump had been wiretapped.

The most obvious interpretation of the NYT article is that FBI was monitoring Russians suspected of ... whatever they were suspected of.

There are a number of articles written on the same day that make this point clear, but I don't care to belabor that point.

BUT ... even if, as you say, the NYT article doesn't prove that the Russians were being tapped, it sure as hell doesn't prove that Trump Inc. was.

Therefore, although I probably did overdo it ... my point is sustained ... there has been NO PROOF that Obama had taps on Trump or his cronies in the article in question.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Gryphon66

Certainly Comey and not Jeff Sessions. He's already in trumps dog house.
And yes I fully expect to see the Comey is a lying pig memes. Which is funny because back in the spring while the investigation was in full swing he was their hero. Until he announced that they didn't have enough for an indictment. He went from hero to zero in a heart beat.


Comey is the bigger hero when spilled all the beans instead of recommending an indictment the Justice Department was not going to follow through with because of Obama and Lynch.

Had he said indict her, the conversation would have stopped and we would have never known Hillary was as dirty as we thought.

💘 ... a song for James and Hillary: 💘



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:10 PM
link   
FISA does not cover foreign private businesses or private citizens. Alfa bank is not a government agent. It is not a political organization. It is a private corporation owned by Fridman, a private citizen. The FISA was illegal in the first place.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

LOL ... made to look like a fool where? In here?

Oh me. I guess you think that would really bother me eh? Even if you had accomplished it?

Can you answer the one question I've asked you directly.

Does the NYT article in question prove that Obama wiretapped Trump? Yes, or no.

One word answer.


I hope nothing I say get to you. My impression of you is that you are more thick skinned than that.

But you do look silly on this.

Even your question here shows you are either not reading what I am typing, or you are so confrontational you can't think straight.

Literally my last posts, in addition to maybe 6 or 7 others on this thread have said the same thing.

Here is the quote from my last post.


I have said repeatedly that I have seen no evidence that Obama wiretapped Trumps phone.


Is that not enough to answer your question?

But if you can only comprehend a one word answer i will give it to you. Are you ready?

No.

But as I said, this is not what you were arguing. Our entire conversation was rather or not this Schmidt guy was disingenious by feigning ignorance over wiretaps involving Trumps team.

You are wrong in every argument and so you change.

You claim the article is about russians being tapped. I show it doesn't say that.

You then say the title proves that this is true. I show you it doesn't and the body of the article never mentions who was tapped (and in fact the title of the article had been changed).

You then say counterintelligence proves it was only foreign people tapped. I show you the article actually defines counterintelligence as American citizens with foreign actors.

You then say the article says it was the russians who were tapped. I ask you to show me that and you don't.

You then say only the russians could be legally tapped. I show you that is wrong.

Finally you fall back on saying I am making strawmen, and ask me if this proves Obama tapped Trump, which was never the debate we were having.

Good job!



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: Konduit
Obama is the first president in US History to actively work to sabotage his successor after an election. What's happening to America?


The Begged Question of the thread, Konduit. And you DO
have a flair for cutting to the chase. I'd give you my stars for
the last month if I could.

Simple analogy/metaphor-- I'm busted on I39 for doing 15 over
the limit and am dead to rights. The peace officer is writing
the citation when..

some old Caddy stretch is 'testing out' a really nice set of
modifications to his rebuilt 472; and chokes the both of us
with tire smoke, a textbook example of reckless driving from
the toll booth just behind all three parties.
The law says the trooper is supposed to go after the worse
offender, and he still sticks around for MR. the 'sure thing'.

This is all indicative of the multiple level of ... what would
you like to call it ... personal treatment under the law that
we're experiencing?

Let's relate this previous and admitted crap to the present
circumstances. Sure I'm wrong, and so is the other guy in the
limo. For the sake of spice... let's put a few kilos of heroin in
the trunk of the stretch. Maybe. But we'll never know will we?

EDIT: my one and only. I've never in my life seen this kind of
abuse of power, either proven or otherwise in this country EVER.
All sides are guilty on some level, some more than others, of
trying to push the system toward their favor -- rather than
work within it. But this single election cycle makes me glad
there are no offspring here, and I will also be dead soon.
Some great percentage of us don't even know where we are.
edit on 6-3-2017 by derfreebie because: WHAT power?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: Berns4
FISA does not cover foreign private businesses or private citizens. Alfa bank is not a government agent. It is not a political organization. It is a private corporation owned by Fridman, a private citizen. The FISA was illegal in the first place.


Read the law and get back to me.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

I really do appreciate the fullness of your answer.

So, if I am the FBI I very likely don't have to have a warrant to monitor Kislyak?

But I would to monitor Flynn or Sessions (or Manafort or whomever?)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler




First off I have seen it presented as the DOJ or FBI.

So, you didn't read the BBC article?



If so, why did he then change the rules so that this info could be spread across multiple agencies?
What info?


And you are REACHING because there is plenty of what you asked for provided in this thread,


No, what he asked for is a source that proves the claim...there is nothing but overly dramatic conjecture in this thread.



Cherry pickers anon has openings I bet, well if they actually existed.

Just kidding.. but you do need to check out the actual facts and not the narrow ones that you can point to. Life exists outside of this forum......


Actual facts?! You are one to attempt to educate someone else on obtaining facts?

Here are the facts and I don't need a source to give them to you:

Trump has proven nothing.
Until Trump proves something, this is a non-issue.
That is all.

Those are the facts. Spin away little man...



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:13 PM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66




there has been NO PROOF that Obama had taps on Trump or his cronies in the article in question.


Except for a guy named Flynn that used a phone that was recorded which the media has been perpetuating he lied.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:13 PM
link   
a reply to: Grambler

Well, one of us is not listening that's for sure.

I am not saying that you are saying that the NYT article proves poop.

I am saying that Neo (and his blog) were saying that the NYT article proves poop, and that poop was that Obama was spying on Trump.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:14 PM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66


So, if I am the FBI I very likely don't have to have a warrant to monitor Kislyak?

But I would to monitor Flynn or Sessions (or Manafort or whomever?)


Not after Obama issued an executive order allowing the NSA to share its collected data on US citizens to the other 16 intelligence agencies in this country.

So no, the FBI would not need a warrant. The 4th amendment has been circumvented.



new topics

top topics



 
158
<< 197  198  199    201  202  203 >>

log in

join