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Donald Trump has just directly accused Obama of wiretapping Trump residence.

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posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:47 PM
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originally posted by: Berns4
a reply to: Xcathdra

Spying on a private bank is pushing the limits. Yes, alfa bank is a private bank.

en.wikipedia.org...


and this is the US law we use.

50 U.S. Code Chapter 36 - FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE




posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:47 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: neo96

If you make dishonest arguments. If you say things you know are untrue in your posts. If, despite correction, you persist in the most ridiculous errors ... then what's the problem?

Your argument is flawed.

How is it flawed?

It's a lie.

As the one making such posts, you are a liar.

If your feelings are hurt by such a self-evident truth, ALERT!

I'll take my chances.


What would you call someone who says someone is a hypocrite but can provide no evidence of it?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

It's exhausting to attempt to correct all the strawmen and red herring in your posts.

Why are we looking at the NYT article in question Grumbler? Is it because Neo insisted, via a blog that misinterpreted the article much in the same way that you are, that this PROVED that Trump (and his campaign staff) were being wiretapped?

Does the article prove that? Or not?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler


What would you call someone who says someone is a hypocrite but can provide no evidence of it?


A hypocrite?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Spying is one thing. Lawsuit is another. Fridman, the owner of alfa bank, can file a massive lawsuit against the FISA for undue spying.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Some things are self-evident.

You're not letting your actual, real-world personal feelings get hurt in these jousts are you?

If you are, you do have my apology. I'm attacking your words, not you.
edit on 6-3-2017 by Gryphon66 because: getting --- letting



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: Berns4
a reply to: Xcathdra

Spying is one thing. Lawsuit is another. Fridman, the owner of alfa bank, can file a massive lawsuit against the FISA for undue spying.


Maybe in a Russian court.

NOT a US court.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Fridman can file a lawsuit in the ICC, the International Criminal Court.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: Grambler




What would you call someone who says someone is a hypocrite but can provide no evidence of it?


A gold medal mental gymnast.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:54 PM
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originally posted by: Berns4
a reply to: Xcathdra

Fridman can file a lawsuit in the ICC, the International Criminal Court.


The US is not a member of the ICC so again, not relevant.

Secondly the ICC only has jurisdiction over the crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes.

So, no he cant file suit in the ICC.
edit on 6-3-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:54 PM
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I find this article interesting. It's from November 2, 2016.

fortune.com...



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Rather like someone who constantly enters threads only to call others "trolls"?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:57 PM
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posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

It's exhausting to attempt to correct all the strawmen and red herring in your posts.

Why are we looking at the NYT article in question Grumbler? Is it because Neo insisted, via a blog that misinterpreted the article much in the same way that you are, that this PROVED that Trump (and his campaign staff) were being wiretapped?

Does the article prove that? Or not?



Again you are changing the goal posts.

I have said repeatedly that I have seen no evidence that Obama wiretapped Trumps phone.

You were claiming that Neo was wrong in his defense of that blogs thesis that this Schmidt guy for the NYT was ridiculous by writing an article recently acting like the idea of wiretaps on trumps team were ridiculous, when he himself wrote an article in January saying evidence of Trumps teams connections to Russia had been caught on wiretaps.

Remember. You kept alluding to the fat that you were going to bring the hammer down. You kept asking neo and others if they read the article, if they knew who the taps were about. You kept leading in in, building the anticipation, and then......

POW!!!! You were made to look a fool!

Now, after hopping from point to point and being proven wrong, you finally fall back on your last defense; claim I am making strawmen and ask if the OP is correct.

I will admit you are giving a clinic on how to look bad losing an argument.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

You may not be in the mood to answer a question for me, but honestly I'm too tired to look it up.

If the FBI wanted to monitor a foreign official based on the US in a counterintelligence investigation, do they have to have any sort of clearance for surveillance?



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: neo96

Rather like someone who constantly enters threads only to call others "trolls"?



Well they'd have to whine about ATS TC to be comparable.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: Berns4
I find this article interesting. It's from November 2, 2016.

fortune.com...


I might add this?

www.breitbart.com...

Yea, i know, Bbart but it is about Judicial watch...

A qoute so you don't have to read BB
"President Trump is on to something. The Obama-connected wiretapping and illegal leaks of classified material concerning President Trump and General Flynn are a scandal. Judicial Watch aims to get to the truth about these crimes and we hope the Trump administration stands with us in the fight for transparency."

edit on 6-3-2017 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Some things are self-evident.

You're not letting your actual, real-world personal feelings get hurt in these jousts are you?

If you are, you do have my apology. I'm attacking your words, not you.


No Gryphon my feelings aren't hurt. In fact, intellectually beating you around does wonders for my self esteem!

On a serious note, neither you or anyone else on here will ever hurt my feelings, nor will I ever report anyone or anything like that. In fact, I find some of your insults to me to be quite amusing.

If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

LOL ... made to look like a fool where? In here?

Oh me. I guess you think that would really bother me eh? Even if you had accomplished it?

Can you answer the one question I've asked you directly.

Does the NYT article in question prove that Obama wiretapped Trump? Yes, or no.

One word answer.



posted on Mar, 6 2017 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Xcathdra

You may not be in the mood to answer a question for me, but honestly I'm too tired to look it up.

If the FBI wanted to monitor a foreign official based on the US in a counterintelligence investigation, do they have to have any sort of clearance for surveillance?



Yup - It falls under the FISA laws - 50 USC 36.


TERMS

As used in this subchapter:

(a) “Foreign power” means—
(1) a foreign government or any component thereof, whether or not recognized by the United States;
(2) a faction of a foreign nation or nations, not substantially composed of United States persons;
(3) an entity that is openly acknowledged by a foreign government or governments to be directed and controlled by such foreign government or governments;
(4) a group engaged in international terrorism or activities in preparation therefor;
(5) a foreign-based political organization, not substantially composed of United States persons;
(6) an entity that is directed and controlled by a foreign government or governments; or
(7) an entity not substantially composed of United States persons that is engaged in the international proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

(b) “Agent of a foreign power” means—
(1) any person other than a United States person, who—
(A) acts in the United States as an officer or employee of a foreign power, or as a member of a foreign power as defined in subsection (a)(4), irrespective of whether the person is inside the United States;
(B) acts for or on behalf of a foreign power which engages in clandestine intelligence activities in the United States contrary to the interests of the United States, when the circumstances indicate that such person may engage in such activities, or when such person knowingly aids or abets any person in the conduct of such activities or knowingly conspires with any person to engage in such activities;
(C) engages in international terrorism or activities in preparation therefore;
(D) engages in the international proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, or activities in preparation therefor; or
(E) engages in the international proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, or activities in preparation therefor, for or on behalf of a foreign power, or knowingly aids or abets any person in the conduct of such proliferation or activities in preparation therefor, or knowingly conspires with any person to engage in such proliferation or activities in preparation therefor; or

(2) any person who—
(A) knowingly engages in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for or on behalf of a foreign power, which activities involve or may involve a violation of the criminal statutes of the United States;
(B) pursuant to the direction of an intelligence service or network of a foreign power, knowingly engages in any other clandestine intelligence activities for or on behalf of such foreign power, which activities involve or are about to involve a violation of the criminal statutes of the United States;
(C) knowingly engages in sabotage or international terrorism, or activities that are in preparation therefor, for or on behalf of a foreign power;
(D) knowingly enters the United States under a false or fraudulent identity for or on behalf of a foreign power or, while in the United States, knowingly assumes a false or fraudulent identity for or on behalf of a foreign power; or
(E) knowingly aids or abets any person in the conduct of activities described in subparagraph (A), (B), or (C) or knowingly conspires with any person to engage in activities described in subparagraph (A), (B), or (C).


In addition, as I understand it, we (US intelligence agencies) routinely monitor ambassadors /etc from foreign nations. The same occurs to US diplomatic personnel in foreign countries.
edit on 6-3-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




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