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Chinese XXJ/J-14

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posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 08:10 PM
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Apparently this aircraft is much more advanced than previously thought... and it seems that it will be given to the PLAAF for trials in 2006
, and is expected to be fully incorporated by 2008

That's only a 9 year design period and it will be entering service 7 years ahead of western predictions.

Big news indeed




歼十是中国隐形战机的过度?
2005-01-24 01:59:41 点击:712   

网友对歼10有着很高的厚望,是因为她是一款可以和欧美先进战斗机向媲美的优秀战斗机,她的成功标志着里程碑 意义,从此我们可以一新的姿态去规划我们国家新型战斗机的发展思路。《中国航空报》关于D型机的报道,证明 了我们正在发展一型新的战斗机,沈阳已完成了11号的重大节点任务,成都J10也到了大规模装备空军的冲刺阶段, 西安的HX 已经到了样机调试阶段,可以说都有重大突破。几种新机目前正在测试研制,“某A型飞机正常布局机头进气;某B 飞机鸭式布局,腹部进气;某C型飞机正常布局,两侧进气;某D型飞机鸭式布局,腹部进气,双发双垂尾”。随 我们国家四代机各种方案的出台,D型机成了我们去被加关注的目标,目前正在向实物阶段过度。  我们的突破  实际上我们为第四代战斗机的发展做了20年的技术储备,在研制第三代机的同时,各研究所就面向21世纪头20年 空战要求,紧密跟踪当时世界各国4代战斗机的发展趋向,对4代战斗机技术便展开了充分预研,有些项目还列入 863?2计划,经过广大科技人员的不懈努力,为我们4代战斗机的研制积累了深厚的技术储备。用611人的话说:目前 ,研究所一对下一代战斗机技术进行了长期,大量的预先研究和探索,一些目前只要美国才掌握的先进技术研究所 也模透了它的机理,并成功地设计出可在新型战斗机上使用的实用设计方案,此外,在矢量推力,隐型技术等方面 也取得了突破性进展。
  从我们战斗机研究水平中不难看出来,我们走完了一条3代战斗机发展的全过程,J10的成飞显然积累了丰富的 验,沈飞在S27的消化和J8II的多次改型中反复在探索,J8II似呼变成了实验平台,这是对研发思量的认真的梳理,更 加强调了系统整合的重大意义,象西飞、洪都等他们先后从法国,意大利,以色列,俄罗斯引进了飞机数字设计软 件和先进制造加工工艺,实现了设计和制造的数字化,一体化,还建立了整套人员及设备体系,这一切都为4带战 机的诞生奠定了结实的基础。  综和航电系统技术:飞机火控系统方面的进步与我国整体电子工业水平的提升 休戚相关的,14所和607所做为我们国家航空机载电子设备两个重要研究基地。在这几年取得了跨跃式成就,两所均 一突破了机载相控阵技术,607所的某型神鹰雷达已进入测试阶段,14所的147X型机载有源相控阵雷达渐已纯青,已经 取得了技术性突破。在中央电视台的节目中:扬总披露了我们已经突破了“传感器数据融合”技术。超7具有信息 享的作战功能,简单的说就是两架超7飞行时,一架飞机不用开雷达就可以通过数据传递知道另一架飞机雷达探测 的所有空域信息,传感器数据融合是第4代战斗机的关键技术,从推比十新的气动布局设计,新型超视距空空导弹 到传感器数据融合,可以说我们的第4代战斗机所需要的技术基本可以冻结,只要大的体制不出现问题,我们的4代 形机很快会飞上蓝天。
  超音速巡航,高机动能力技术:超音速巡航,高机动能力技术是先进气动布局设计和高性能发动机的完美结合 的产物,而超音速巡航和高机动能力技术在我们的某型3代战斗机上已经具备。有人总是对我们的发动机没有信心 这是可以理解的,毕竟我们曾经在很长时间里因为“动力”不足而使一些项目功败垂成。发动机是一项系统科学 涉及的领域众多,从动力学,材料科学,系统整合,可靠稳定性等方面,但庆幸的是进入九十年代以来,我们在 空发动机领域,充分吸取以前的教训,坚持走技术引进和自我研发相结合的道路,通过总结WS6的经验和教训,完 了第一个完全自主知识产权的安型号标准发展的中推的定型。走核心机衍生道路,顺利完成WS10A的研制,11B和10B装 备国产心已经成为现实,在好消息频传的同时,一向出言谨慎的中科院院士刘大项也传出新声: “从事高性能发动机的研究我是从76年开始担任这个项目负责人,国家相及投入几个亿,我们研究了中等推力涡旋 动机,这是我国第一个研制的。在这个基础上我们同时开展了4代战斗机发动机的关键技术研究,目前进展良好, 我们国家研究矢量喷口大概有十几年的历史,目前我们已经研究了两总,一是能够上下偏转20 度的,一种是能够在360度偏转20度喷口。已经进行台架实验,相信不久我们就会听到振奋人心的消息。我们在发动 领域的突破是有目共睹的。虽然在可靠性和躯体的实用性方面有待考验,突破领域也只是百分七十左右,但我们 要坚定方向,一这样的势头发展下去,站在世界前沿不是没有不可能的,关于推比十不是一家在搞,存在多个工 项目,目前624的速度比较快,因此我们的4代战斗机用上国产的高性能发动机只是时间问题了。
  隐身性能技术:至于怎么隐形,目前看就是两种技术,一是靠先进的隐形气动布局设计,这种技术的风险是对 未来的电子科技发展的不可预期性而可能导致的风险。二是靠先进的新型材料,通过吸波材料的应用来达到隐形目 的,风险在于它的现实可能性和可运做性。既然我们强调隐形性,那肯定考虑这两方面因素,我国在先进的气动布 局和新型吸波材料方面都有高水平。2002年《国际航空》杂志报道了成飞在研究BUMP进气道的原理和设计方法的重大 破指出成飞[1]摸透了气动原理[2]探索出一套工程设计方法[3]开展了CFD方法流场计算[4]完成了设计方安和外形生成[ 5]完成了高底速风洞实验,我国进气道设计技术获重大突破,达到了JSF水平,该相技术可直接用于4代战斗机上。

  发展模式的选择
  李文正所长说:一架先进飞机的诞生涉及到众多技术领域的突破,不可能等到所以技术突破后在去研究新飞机 。所以根据我们国家航空工业的基础和实际水平和广大科学专家挣赶世界先进水平的决心,他们已经在4代战斗机 正进行着艰苦的努力,通过不断的改进改型,循序渐进地完成着我们国家航空研究水平从量变到质变的大的飞跃 实现了我们国家4代战斗机雏形一定的跨越局面。不论我们取得的成绩有多大,谦虚谨慎,戒骄戒躁的品格是不能 的,重要的是我们强调的是不对称优势,我们的成绩是百分之七十的,跟美国是有距离的,在我们4带战斗机还没 有服役前,可敌之术还是捉襟见肘的,但我们的技术已经把我们推向了4代战斗机的研究行列,也许4代战斗机还没 十分完善,但有了168还担心没有 170吗?这也是我们应当理解10C存在的意义。战斗机划代的标准是它的设计,而不是它的单相性能,扬伟多次强调我 们正在搞X-32B。我们国家最有实力战斗机研究所就是611和601,而发动机是624和606,624的推比十搞的最快,而606的性 更好,南轻北重南35北22,将此我们可以负责任的告诉大家鸭式布局,V型垂尾,贝壳式坐舱,内置武器舱,优越 隐身气动设计,双发(两台中推某型/WS-14:3级风扇,6级高压压气机,推比10,二元推力矢量喷管,FADEC),有源 控阵雷达(T/R组件)。十五期间正式进入工程研制状态,2006年首飞,2008年正式服役,目标等同于F22的中国第4代 斗机将纵横长空。


www.wforum.com...



[edit on 31-1-2005 by Lucretius]




posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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And for those of you who don't speak Chinese, hers a rough translation;

"Annihilates ten is the Chinese hiding fighter plane excessively? 2005-01-24 01:59:41 clicks: 712 网友 to annihilates 10 to have the very high great expectations, is because she is section may with the European and American advanced fighter aircraft to the outstanding fighter aircraft which compares favorably with, her success symbolizes the milestone □? Significance, from this time on we may plan our country new fighter aircraft development mentality by a new posture. "Chinese Aviation Newspaper" about the D molding machine report, had proven we are developing a new fighter aircraft, Shenyang have completed 11 significant pitch points tasks, Chengdu J10 also arrived the large-scale equipment air force's sprint stage, □? Xi'an's HX already arrived the prototypical debugging stage, was allowed to say all has the significant breakthrough. Several kind of new machine at present are testing the development, "some A airplane normal arrangement nose lets in air; Some B manages? The airplane canard, the abdomen lets in air; Some C airplane normal arrangement, two sides let in air; Some D airplane canard, the abdomen lets in air, twin engine double vertical stabilizer ". Along with □? Our country four generations of machine each kind of plan appearing, the D molding machine became us to go is added the attention the goal, at present to in kind stage excessively. Our breakthrough □? In fact we have made 20 years technical reserve for the fourth generation of fighter aircraft development, during development third generation's machine, various research institutes faces the 21st century first 20 years □? The air fight requests, the close track various countries 4 generation of fighter aircrafts development trends, then have launched the full advanced research at that time to 4 generation of fighter aircrafts technologies, some projects also include □? 863? 2 plans, passes through the general technical personnel's unremitting endeavor, accumulated the deep technical reserve for our 4 generation of fighter aircrafts developments. Said with 611 person of speeches that, At present, a research institute pair of next generation fighter aircraft technology has conducted long-term, the massive in advance research and the exploration, some at present so long as US only then grasps the advanced technical research institute mold has also passed its mechanism, and successfully designs may the practical design proposal which uses on the new fighter aircraft, in addition, in the vector thrust force, aspect and so on hiding technology has also made the unprecedented progress. Not ugly comes out from our fighter aircraft research level, we walked the entire process which 3 generation of fighter aircrafts developed, J10 have become fly obviously accumulated rich stumbling? Examines, Shen Fei in the modification repeatedly in explores many times in the S27 digestion and J8II, J8II resembled shouts turns has tested the platform, this was to research and development consideration earnest combing, even more emphasized the system conformity great significance, west the elephant flew, Hong Du waits for them successively from France, Italy, Israel, Russia to introduce airplane numeral design software and the advanced manufacture processing craft, has realized the design and the manufacture digitization, the integration, but also has established the entire wrap personnel and the equipment system, all these were 4 belts fights □? Machine the birth has laid the solid foundation. Grand total navigation electricity system technology: Airplane fire control system aspect progress and our country overall electronics industry level promotion 昊? Is bound by a common cause, 14 institutes and 607 do for our country aviation airborne electronics two important research bases. Has obtained the cross leap type achievement in these years, two as soon as broke through the aircraft-borne 相控阵 technology, 607 some condor radar entered the test stage, 14 147X molding machine carries the active phased-array radar gradually already 纯青, has already obtained the technical breakthrough. In in Central Committee Television's program: Raised had always disclosed we already broke through "the sensor data fusion" the technology. Ultra 7 has the information □? Enjoys the operational function, simple said when is two ultra 7 flights, an airplane does not need start the radar to be allowed through the data transmission to know another aircraft radar survey divides? All air zones information, the sensor data fusion is the 4th generation of fighter aircraft essential technology, from pushes compared to ten new air operated layouts designs, new beyond line of sight air-to-air missile to the sensor data fusion, may say our 4th generation of fighter aircraft needs the technology is basic may freeze, so long as the big system does not have the problem, our 4 generations □? The shape machine is very quick can fly the blue sky. Supersonic cruise, high maneuver cabability technology: The supersonic cruise, the high maneuver cabability technology is the advanced air operated layout design and the high performance engine perfect union product, but the supersonic cruise and the high maneuver cabability technology already had on ours some 3 generation of fighter aircrafts. Some people always do not have the confidence to our engine *? This is may understand, after all we once in very long time because "the power" insufficient causes some projects to fail when success seemed within reach. The engine is an item of systems science *? Involves the domain is multitudinous, driven mechanics, materials science, system conformity, aspect and so on reliable stability, since but has rejoiced is enters for the 90's, we in □? The spatial engine domain, fully absorbed before the lesson, persisted the technical introduction and the self- research and development unified the path, through summarized the WS6 experience and the lesson, fifth heavenly stem? The first completely independent intellectual property rights peaceful model standard development center has pushed stereotypia. Walks the core machine to grow the path, smoothly completed WS10A the development, 11B and the 10B equipment domestic product heart already becomes the reality, kept pouring in while the good news, always spoke discrete Academia Sinica academician the Liu major term also to spread the new sound: "Is engaged in the high performance engine to study me is starts from 76 years to hold the post of this project person in charge, how many the country and invests hundred million, we have studied the medium thrust force vortex □? Motive, this is the our country first development. We have simultaneously carried out 4 generation of fighter aircrafts engines essential engineering research in this foundation, at present progresses good, our country research vector nozzle probably has several years history, at present we already have studied two always, one was can about deflect 20, one kind is can deflect 20 nozzles in 360. Already carried on the gantry experiment, believed soon we could hear to discouraging news. We are starting □? The domain breakthrough is obvious to all. Although waits for the test in reliable and the body usable aspect, the breakthrough domain also only is the percentage about 70, but we □? Must strengthen the direction, a such tendency develops, stands is not does not have not not impossibly in the world front, about pushes compared to ten is not is doing, has many labor □? The project, at present 624 speeds quite are quick, therefore our 4 generation of fighter aircrafts used the domestic product the high performance engine only are the time question. Stealth performance technology: How as for hides, at present looked is two kind of technologies, one depends on the advanced hiding air operated layout design, this kind of technical risk will be to the future electronic science and technology development may not the risk which anticipating but will possibly cause. Two, depends on the advanced new material, through the absorbing material application achieved the hiding goal, the risk lies in its realistic possibility and may transport makes the nature. Since we emphasized hiding, that affirmation considered these two aspects factor, our country all has the high level in the advanced air operated layout and the new absorbing material aspect. In 2002 "International air" the magazine had reported Cheng Fei is studying the BUMP air intake the principle and the design method is significant □? Broken pointed out flew [1] to trace thoroughly the air operated principle [2] to explore a set of engineering designs method [3] to carry out the CFD method flow field computation [4] to complete has designed Fang An and the contour production [5] completes Gao Desu the wind tunnel experiment, our country air intake design technology has attained the significant breakthrough, had achieved the JSF level, this technology might directly use in on 4 generation of fighter aircrafts. The development pattern chooses Manager Li Wenzheng to say that, An advanced airplane birth involves to the multitudinous area of technology breakthrough, after is impossible when therefore the technological breakthrough in studies the new airplane. Therefore according to our country aviation industry the foundation and is actual horizontal and the general scientific experts makes catches up with the world advanced level the determination, they already on 4 generation of fighter aircrafts? Is making the difficult effort, through the unceasing improvement modification, methodically is completing our country air research level from the quantitative change to the qualitative change big leap *? Realized certainly our country 4 generation of fighter aircrafts embryonic forms certainly to surmount the aspect. No matter we obtain the result has in a big way, modest, guards against arrogance and impetuosity the moral character cannot □? More importantly we emphasize are not the assymetrical superiority, our result is 70%, has the distance with US, does not have before the service in our 4 belts fighter aircrafts, but technique of the enemy or has too many problems to tackle, but our technology already pushed us to 4 generation of fighter aircrafts research ranks, perhaps 4 generation of fighter aircrafts did not have □? Extremely consummates, but had 168 not to worry 170? This also is we must understand the 10C existence the significance. The fighter aircraft delimits a generation of standard is its design, but is not its single-phase performance, raises great emphasized many times we are doing X-32B. Our country most has the strength fighter aircraft research institute is 611 and 601, but the engine is 624 and 606, 624 pushing ten does is quicker than, but 606 nature □? Better, south light north heavy south north 35 22, may take responsibility this us tells everybody the canard, V vertical stabilizer, the shell type 坐舱, in sets at the weapon bay, is superior □? The stealth air operated design, the twin engine (two Taichung pushes some /WS-14: 3 levels of ventilators, 6 levels of high-pressured air compressors, push compared to 10, dual thrust force vector nozzle, FADEC), active profit? Controls a radar (the T/R module). 15 period officially enter the project development condition, 2006 new years fly, in 2008 officially serves, the goal equates to the F22 Chinese 4th generation of fifth heavenly stem? Fighting machine vertically and horizontally expansive sky"

Sorry if it's a bit long and not very well translated but it's not bad for a five second translation from Alta Vista Babelfish translator.

Anyhow it looks pretty impressive at this point. However I wonder if the Chinese can actually follow through with there plans. I also wonder how this much of an effect this plane could effect on conflict with Taiwan.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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It's the very last few sentances where they describe the plans for the aircraft



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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I heard that the PLA/ PLAAF are in the works of making a type of bomber with similiar body features of that of the SU-32? Do you have any news on this Lucretius



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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The Su-32 article was just a speculation that China could be doing similar things like the ones on Su-32 on our new Fighter-Bomber project. It's suppose to have a range of 7000+ KMs.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 12:54 AM
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Another thread exists on ATSN. It has extensive coverage of the same airplane

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

will some mod shut this thread down . ??



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 03:28 AM
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It's an old thread... let this one run it's course



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 03:40 AM
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If this is beginning service trials in 2006 then it must have flown several years ago, is a new iron curtain keeping this new plane from us like the Soviets did in the past? But there are far more westerners living and working in China today than there ever were in Russia, there is a technological two way street established and satellite technology is way adanced nowadays so how comw no-one has seen it yet? Unless the claims are inaccurate?



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 04:20 AM
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It's all very hush hush... simular to so called "black projects" in the US.

I don't think the government wants the world to know how progress is going as it's a risk to both credibility and face.

I am supprised that we have not seen any photographs yet... only concept models and sketches, but hopefully that will change in 2006



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 05:23 AM
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my prediction

This fighter will be good. I think it will be a high performing fighter, much like the Russian fighters. However, since it seems it is being rushed a bit, I think it will have MAJOR problems for the first few years untill they work the kinks out.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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Flight trials by 2006 and Inducted by 2008?



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 08:57 PM
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^^^I dont understand whats so funny. A lot of China's new military toys have rolled out well ahead of schedule. I.E The Yuan and the FAC's. Maybe they might have some glitches at first, but given a few trial and error they will be very good for the PLA.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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If you can get enough computers together with sufficent computing power, you can recreate and enormous amount of real world conditions in a cyber environment. Under ground testing facilities can put airframes and engines to the test and no one would be the wiser. Crews could live there at six month intervals. In America we have many examples of just such types of places, Area 51, Groom Lake and other testing areas in Nevada.
Getting back to computers, you could cut down research and development time and cost with computer aid design, and modeling. We see what Hollywood has accomplished as far CG, no environment it seems can't be create by Industrial Light and Magic. Things can be hidden in plain sight too, a launch facility which looks like a steam tower or something in the middle of a Russian city.



posted on Feb, 2 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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You cannot develop an aircraft without actual flight trials and development of advanced fighter aircraft takes years and years.

IF the XXJ, or whatever its called, has been flying in secret since, say 2000, then service introduction in 2008 might be attainable, at a pinch. If however it hasn't, or even worse, not yet actually flown, then it is impossible.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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let me show you something new.haha




posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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hmmm.. Very interesting..
Could be developed in hush hush..Not flown at daytime.. Only in remote unhabited regions..But the time frame seems to be tooo narrow to get something like what that photo depicts in just 10 years..Unless they've acquired loads of data from the US/Russians on stealth/avoinics and TVC by..umm nefarious means..
But then this photo would contradict all security measures I've mentioned above..Esp since its being hosted ona chinese bbs!


Actually here's a thread from the same bbs where almost all the photos are CGI/photoshopped and the ones that are real are either low quality
or that of the AWACS a/c,Su-27/30MKK or the Jh-7a leopard.. all known to be operated by the PLAAF:
bbs.military.china.com...

Infact the shots that kind of resemble the above photo are all CGI/photoshopped and so the authenticity of that photo may be in question..

external image

external image

Aren't these the same/similar to the photo in the post above?


[edit on 30-11-2005 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Daedalus3]

Mod Edit: Image Size – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 30/11/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 10:39 AM
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Pardon me if this hasnt been mentioned:

Those in flight pics arent real, thats CGI, clearly.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 07:11 PM
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J-12 (aka J-14). See aircraft in middle of picture (not the Y-8 transport). Twin outward-canted stablizers, twin engine, mid-set delta wing and canards. Exhasts not 2-D.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 04:49 AM
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I asked an asociate for a graphical analysis of the above photo. He did this:

Looks as good a guess as mine as to what the aircraft looks like.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 06:04 AM
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Its a shame that these images are so small (I include the Iranian photo off the other thread). While they are fascinating and I'm glad you posted them, it does unfortunately leave them open to accusations of them being deliberately small to avoid close examination.



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