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SCI/TECH: The Battle Over Evolution

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posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 07:58 PM
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Many science teachers today are choosing not to teach Darwin's theory of evolution. Teachers are encouraged by school principals to ignore evolution and, if it is taught, students may be exempted from class discussions. Some of thesee teachers themseleves are creationists and avoid the subject in class to avoid hassle from school administrators or parents. Not only are biologists feeling the pressure of intelligent design, but theorists, geologists and physicists are also having their theories questioned.
 



www.nytimes.com
When urbane Americans heard about the Kansas school board decision, they dismissed it as the last gasp of a familiar evangelical type from the 1940s: poor, rural and uneducated. In fact, many neo-creationists resemble the Smiths: college-educated, upwardly mobile, living in prosperous suburbs of America's fastest-growing cities.

Evangelicals today are an almost exact cross section of America: 42 percent live in suburbs, and more than a third are college-educated and earn more than $50,000 a year.

Life in upscale suburbia hasn't eroded their faith, as many sociologists predicted it would. Instead, it's produced a kind of culture shock, often hardening their beliefs. These days, religious epiphanies are sparked by what was supposed to cure them: too much "progress" in schools, too many malls and too much politics.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I believe that God should be kept in your house and your church, temple,synagogue, or mosque. The first schools, such as the Academy, which was estabilished by Plato, were founded on reason and logic. Evolution teaches children that an opinion based not on fact, but blind devotion overcomes years of research and devotion by scientists. If we allow creation to be taught in our schools we are taking a step back, we are dragging ourselves away from progress. And progress has always been what succesful societies and civilizations have been based on.

Related News Links:
www.washingtonpost.com
www.washingtonpost.com
www.washingtonpost.com
www.washingtonpost.com

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Banshee]




posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 08:32 PM
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True, but we can't replace one flaw with another. Evolution is not true. The Negro is said to be the spawn of us. But we have found bones of MODERN MEN over 300 million years old. We were created. If we evolved, then what stopped apes from evolving? It is a flawed education to teach us that mishap. I stand by them only for a chance at the truth being taught.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 08:58 PM
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Ummm... the apes did not stop evolving. They are still evolving today. That'e evolution for you.

My God... "us" was meant to have evolved from "The Negro"... and yet there are bones of modern man over 300 million years old? Will "The Negro" evolve to join the ranks of "modern man" soon - or before the Race Relations Commissioner reaches your part of Asia Minor?

I am glad that evolution is not ignored or encouraged to be ignored as a staple in the science curriculum in informed parts of the world where people driven by dogma are not able to exercise undue influence.

The great leap backwards can land parts of the United States in the same sort of cultural cesspit as the Taliban have done for parts of Asia.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Asia Minor
True, but we can't replace one flaw with another. Evolution is not true. The Negro is said to be the spawn of us. But we have found bones of MODERN MEN over 300 million years old. We were created. If we evolved, then what stopped apes from evolving? It is a flawed education to teach us that mishap. I stand by them only for a chance at the truth being taught.



Are you one of those Neo-lithic Nazis we have been warned about?

you certainly sound like a cretin.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Asia Minor
True, but we can't replace one flaw with another. Evolution is not true. The Negro is said to be the spawn of us. But we have found bones of MODERN MEN over 300 million years old. We were created. If we evolved, then what stopped apes from evolving? It is a flawed education to teach us that mishap. I stand by them only for a chance at the truth being taught.


Don't mistake what you term "Modern Men" to be as we are now.
Do you think Homo sapiens have not evolved or changed in any way in those 300,000 years? We're still evolving, as are the apes, just because you can't see it in your short lifetime doesn't mean it's not happening.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:08 PM
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Perhaps it is because the further science digs into the origins of matter, the more intelligent design seems the inevitable conclusion, thus it is once again being taught. Not as a matter of religion, but of good science. Do some research, and you will find that among the leaders in quantum physics and fields related to origins of matter and the universe, their opinions are largely split as to how it all began. Eventually, this has to begin filtering down. Biologists still fervently believe in evolution, but those looking deeper are beginning to have their doubts. Maybe there is some hope for intelligence after all.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Bones 300,000,000 years old? Oh please you make laugh. Were you there 300,000,000 years ago? It's a theory that they are 300MIllion years old. Carbon dating does not work. If scientist said that you are a billion years old you would bealive it? There is no proof that they are 300,000,000 years old.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:25 PM
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And yes... Homo Sapiens 300 million years ago?
Australopithecus wasn't even around at that time... Your numbers are bogus.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by Asia MinorThe Negro is said to be the spawn of us.

"spawn" means "offspring/child." We have no idea what skin color those people have.


But we have found bones of MODERN MEN over 300 million years old.

Nope. Oldest human bones that I know of are 5 million years old, and those aren't modern man. 300 million years ago was the age of the dinosaurs, and well before any mammals were around. Lots of fish, though.


If we evolved, then what stopped apes from evolving?

That's the old "if our ancestors came from England, how come there are still English people?" argument. Apes have indeed evolved and we have lots of fossils in those sequences.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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You can't just say this stuff.

I personally choose Evolution over Creation, or Intelligent Design, which is just another form of Creation but bwah - the point is, I do choose Evolution.

That doesn't mean that I'm going to just up and say "Everyone who ever thought god existed is blatantly wrong, and evolution should stop exsting, and we should all be taught ID, because evolution isn't 100% right."

See, I don't do that, and would like to think myself all the better because I don't.

You do.

You're saying "It's all just theories, we don't know, evolution isn't fact, it's theory. You can't teach theory in school. That's ludicrous. ID is what we need, boo nay on evolution" - ID is just a theory too, and actually one with a hell of a lot less scientific backing than evolution has.

At present, Evolution is the most logical means of defining the natural progression of the state of life on earth. ID mixes Creation and Evolution, and Creation is just saying "Yeah so god did it."

But, you don't care. Most people on "the other side" will just say "Pft, Evolutionist moron. How could we have been monkeys?" and then be done with it. I acknowledge the idea of god. I acknowledge the idea of some guidance in coincidence - but I also acknowledge the idea that mutation is the likeliest means of change, and that god can co-exist with evolution.

The question(s) to pose to Creationists: Why would god create a universe where he has to break the observable laws to do what he wants? Why wouldn't he make the universe so that it will just naturally do as he wants, without interference? Doesn't that make sense? Doesn't the idea that it could be coincidence, guided or not, but it did happen through mutation, make sense?

By the way, this isn't really news at all.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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why is it that christians have such a hard time accepting adaption(evolution)?
we are evolving now!!
kids today....some don't have wisdom teeth...they are unnecessary because we no longer eat raw meat.
humans are taller on average now.
our iq's are higher on average.
evolution is happening as we speak people...for the better.
why can't god be a part of that?
why must it be one way or another? couldn't god have a hand in evolution?....to make us better?
it astounds me that people debunk any kind of evolution,even though there are physical,scientific facts that organisms change to adapt to new enviroments.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
Perhaps it is because the further science digs into the origins of matter, the more intelligent design seems the inevitable conclusion, thus it is once again being taught. Not as a matter of religion, but of good science.

Hardly. In fact, the reverse is true. ID isn't science. You can't use it to predict anything about the universe.


Do some research, and you will find that among the leaders in quantum physics and fields related to origins of matter and the universe, their opinions are largely split as to how it all began.

Care to give any examples? Most agree with Hawkings and his maths.

And, by the way, evolution isn't the same as "abiogenesis" (how life started on the earth) and doesn't have anything to do with the universe. It is simply "how we get different species over time."


Eventually, this has to begin filtering down. Biologists still fervently believe in evolution, but those looking deeper are beginning to have their doubts. Maybe there is some hope for intelligence after all.


You'll find that the overwhelming majority of scientists support evolutionary explainations in biology. There are a handfull that promote ID or Creationism... outside the US, these debates are "moot." No other country besides those with religious governments (strongly Muslim countries, eg) even considers the idea of ID or Creationism as being worthy of being taught in school.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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if evolution didn't exist...we would have obliterated ALL bacteria and all viruses by now. living things evolve,to survive in their environment,or else we'd all still be eating raw meat and picking lice off of each other,while battling giant hairy elephants. we look like we look in 2005 because of evolution and without it humans wouldn't have the intelligence and technology that we have today.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by psychosgirl
living things evolve,to survive in their environment,or else we'd all still be eating raw meat and picking lice off of each other,while battling giant hairy elephants.


If evolution did not occur we wouldn't even be at that point.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Asia Minor
True, but we can't replace one flaw with another. Evolution is not true. The Negro is said to be the spawn of us. But we have found bones of MODERN MEN over 300 million years old. We were created. If we evolved, then what stopped apes from evolving? It is a flawed education to teach us that mishap. I stand by them only for a chance at the truth being taught.


300 million years old!!! so modern man walked with the dinosaurs? really? wow? Mr Asia Minor... you must have knowledge beyond that of anyone else in the world who knows (or knew untill your sudden insight into history) that man, whether modern or not, DID NOT WALK WITH THE DINOSAURS (who dies out 65 million years ago... give or take afew years)

Thats why creationism is obviously a flawed teaching... it promotes ognorance into basic FACTS!... evolution may not be 100% correct, but its on the right track... I believe evolution is only part of the whole answer... creationism however belongs in the days where people needed a god to explain the unexplainable... the days before modern science.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 10:02 PM
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thankyou!
look at old photos of your relatives people.
are we not taller?
how many people grandparents have commented on how much smarter we are....how much more we are able to learn more quickly.
i think evolution is beautiful.....i see it everyday in my 2 children. how much faster they are developing than i did.
why do people think evolution is bad and anti-god?
is "don't believe in adaption of your species" documented in the bible somewhere? no...i've read the whole thing several times. why must those of us who believe in science be called heretics? we can still believe in god and his plan...maybe evolution is part of that plan.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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See, when i have children, I'll tell them about christians believing god made everything. As I'll also tell them about buddists and muslims and jews etc.
What I won't do, is put up with religious bodies with a political agenda teaching my children religious belief in a science class.
There are postulates underlying all of science. Rules and practises that can be checked and verified....well most of it. There is still some bad science, but on the whole, it's peer reviewed and kept in check.
Science is about truth, not in what you believe is true. Although there are interpretations to data, the fundamental motive is working out natures laws; WETHER that nature was created by an omniscient being, or pure chance chemical reaction.
All this Intelligent Design crap is a renewal of the attacks from the late 70's by the creationist agenda. It's just shifted it's argument slightly, but the underlying root is exactly the same: their dwindling ranks.
Faced with the inevitable decline of an outmoded dogma, they resort to bullying and concealment tactics, bad science, and in some cases, downright lies to sway people to their cause. All this from a group that claims the moral high-ground!!!
Like Ronald McDonald said " get them while they're young, and they'll always be customers..."



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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.
Maybe the reason some people don't want to believe in evolution is because they have quit evolving on a personal level. If you have no sense of change about yourself it is harder to believe it is happening in the larger world around you.

Imagine social/political pressure is beginning to degrade the quality of the science taught in America. and it is happening in a time when one of the few advantages you can have in the competitive world economy is a good education.

Go ahead ignorant Americans, shoot yourself in the foot. Enjoy eating the exhaust fumes of China and India. Meanwhile sending America back into the Stone ages so you can prove evolution for an actual fact by having to re-run a big portion of it.

How stupid can you get? I suppose there is NO LIMIT to it.
.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 12:29 AM
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The evidence for intelligent design (among other things) leaves atheists without a leg to stand on and evolution looking like the load of hand waving that it is. In terms of the numbers of people who accept it, the evolutionist camp is losing out big time in the academic arena as people gradually come to terms with the verwhelming evidence for intelligent design.

www.worldmag.com...



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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That 300 million year remark was quite amusing, regardless, I find great homage in what the initial creater of this forum stated:




I believe that God should be kept in your house and your church, temple,synagogue, or mosque. The first schools, such as the Academy, which was estabilished by Plato, were founded on reason and logic. Evolution teaches children that an opinion based not on fact, but blind devotion overcomes years of research and devotion by scientists. If we allow creation to be taught in our schools we are taking a step back, we are dragging ourselves away from progress. And progress has always been what succesful societies and civilizations have been based on.


Though a bit deviant in direction, Stoicism and Epicureanism are great examples aswell of great schools of thought. These modern day creationists are nothing but Sophists whose main purpose is to point out the mudane flaws of logic/science in Evolution, yet provide a very shaky basis for creationism: Genesis can be very easily detracted through scholastic research; one only needs to consult a mainstream version to find that it bears many contradictions and two concurrent creation stories, aswell.

Ignorance denied, and in a country which needs it the most.


Deep



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