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How the fallout from Trump's travel ban is reshaping science

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posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:09 AM
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I was mentioning this over in a post in the Science section of ATS - that science is actually running into some problems with the Trump travel ban (and the new one is no help.) It affects those of us in Egyptology who want to travel to the Middle East (where all the fun stuff is) and those in Biblical Archaeology (ditto... double ditto, in fact if you're in Biblical Archaeology) but also affects other fields.

The magazine, "Nature" has an article in the current online edition about this topic.


Many foreign-born scientists say they are reconsidering plans to work or study in the United States, even though federal courts have indefinitely blocked US President Donald Trump’s travel ban. The policy, which Trump signed on 27 January, sought to deny entry to citizens of seven Muslim-majority nations for 90 days — including those with valid US visas.

Some researchers worry that the Trump administration will find a way to reinstate the policy, and perhaps even expand its reach. The government is reportedly preparing a reworked ban that would exclude current visa-holders, and Trump has also made brief mention of instituting a “merit-based” immigration system. The lingering uncertainty over US immigration rules is prompting some scientists to curtail crucial research trips and may dissuade other researchers, students and entrepreneurs from considering the US as a destination.

Article - How the fallout from Trump's travel ban is reshaping science"


This ban affects the ability of scientists and companies to open and expand new labs (as is mentioned in the article) and limits the ability to attend conferences or visit research areas. Although it talks about immigrants to the US who try to get back in, the truth is that American born citizens are also being subjected to this kind of scrutiny when they re-enter the US.



An Iranian-American astronomer, who did not want to be named because he has international travel coming up, says that the vetting process to enter the US is already very strict. He went through multiple interviews and fingerprinting to get his green card and later, his US citizenship. "It's not like giving out candies," he says.


It's also suspected that this will discourage foreign students from entering the US for degrees. This was an important vehicle for exporting democracy and American freedoms - when someone comes here and experiences the advantages, they want to export it to their country. You see this with Muslims in their change in clothing styles and so forth. I saw it in the attitudes of my fellow graduate students (Turkish policemen who were here in the US as part of my university's programs - they came to America (and spoke English because they were sitting in classes where nobody was going to give them a "pass" or teach in Arabic or Turkish) and experienced our food and our culture for at least two years. They encountered classmates of all ages, sitting next to women not related to them and learning to deal with it. It changed them and changed attitudes. They were not here to stay; they had good jobs waiting at home when their degrees were completed.

In addition, research centers may decide it's more efficient to move to countries that are less restrictive:


Investors could also be put off if obtaining visas for start-up founders becomes harder or more expensive, he adds. Such fears have prompted Gupta to consider opening IndieBio’s first office outside of the United States.



And scientists, bless their little hearts, are trying to figure out ways to game the system. Because that's what we do.


Some science groups are trying to come up with their own creative solutions to immigration problems. When the American Physical Society’s international-affairs committee meets in May, its members will discuss how the society can blunt the effects of the travel ban.

Potential actions could include redoubling efforts to help foreign researchers obtain US visas, or setting up virtual mentorships and collaborations for young scientists outside of the country, says Maria Spiropulu, a physicist at California Institute of Technology in Pasadena and a member of the committee.



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posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:14 AM
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I hardly think the world of science will ground to a halt because of a travel ban to 7 insignificant, war torn countrys.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

This is just another story about how some people are worried about what Trump might do.


+8 more 
posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

Curious that we've never heard the same gripes in relation to such places as North Korea, Somalia, decades of travel bans to Iran and Iraq, etc... but by all means, if scientists are in an uproar, let's put national security and common sense on the backburner.


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posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

Well by libral logic then if the USA had free travel to North Korea we would have cured cancer, have warp drive and robot slaves by now



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

SO the ban is bad because a hand full of **** ****s decided they don't want to come here because of Trump. Owell. They can take their minds and shove it. Scientists will continue to come and if they don't we'll just steal or adapt anything they make anyway. I don't care about a bunch of sissies complaining because they can't get their way, good.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:37 AM
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Good op, the stupid trump ban has more than stoped people from the 7 evilest countries that the trump ban was supposed to affect.

Its a failure just like trump is, and is fans.

Durp durp murika great again.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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Many foreign-born scientists say they are reconsidering plans to work or study in the United States,


just more opportunity for U.S. citizens, Dual U.S /whatever country citizens, legal U.S.residents, U.S. green card holders to be employed by U.S. schools and companies, or students to study and become employed in these fields.

sounds like a win a for the above mentioned to me.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:42 AM
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Have you and your peers discussed the potential of an out of control plague as caused by the mass migration across borders by those exposed to less sanitary methods in conjunction with the global warming situation. I know that our government says that all have the vaccinations but what about the “don’t drink the water” phrase from several decades ago. That phase is not the result of just unsanitary methods but it’s primarily caused by said visitor’s exposure to foreign bacteria as present in the part of the world they are moving to. In brief we who are native to a region are immune to that bacteria simply from living in a certain part of the world for centuries and developing immunity to it. Nothing more and nothing less.

My point being is that could a mass injection of immigrants lead to an environmental imbalance therefore causing and allowing certain mutations with their and our bacteria causing introduction in the bacterial world and allowing the reintroduction of the new strains similar to the presence Bubonic Plague in Chipmunks in the Rocky Mountains or the Bird born disease in China. This also applies to animals and other invasive species of plants and fish. Just wondering as people are part of the evolutionary chain also and we are not exempt from it.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 11:49 AM
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LOl, want to complain about problems with traveling to historical sites? The Syrians just recaptured the citadel at Palmyra (again) from the terrs who blew it up (again) and sowed the ruins with mines (again)...

Buwah,Trump won't let me fly...



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 12:07 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 


(post by usernameconspiracy removed for a manners violation)

posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 12:15 PM
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Sounds like a typical "scientific" knee-jerk over-reaction.




posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok




I hardly think the world of science will ground to a halt because of a travel ban to 7 insignificant, war torn countrys.
Not only that but I would think that ISIS would put a bigger cramp on scientific archaeology then Trump ever could . I see the Syrian/Russian army liberated Palmaria again ....



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Sounds like a typical "scientific" knee-jerk over-reaction.





You'd think they'd be celebrating the ban. Fewer refugees and travelers to the US = fewer air flights = less carbon footprint = their imaginary anthropogenic global warming problems should get better... Unless... no, it can't be yet another example of BS, can it?



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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Trump critics need to stop hijacking science with their political agendas.

Gender,race,climate,travel 'bans'.

Yall have outdone the nazis.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Byrd
It's sad that so many here on ATS lack the intelligence to understand the logic in your thread. Lately I feel that we are going backwards scientifically speaking.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

I'd have to guess that there's something of an over reaction going on here.

By the same token, I'd expect that type reaction because, as usual, its all about the money. These Universities are paid big bucks to host foreign students and scientists and such.........so doubtless, they're afraid of losing some money as a result.

However, if this were to become a long term and significant trend, it could surely retard US scientific advancement and therefore US competitiveness in the world markets of new ideas and technologies. To those who think, "great, this will make more room for US American students", think again.....truth is the Universities are starving for math and science literate students from anywhere because the broken US education system, (i.e. school to prison pipeline) doesn't produce much in the way of well trained youth. If foreigners, many of whom have recieved far better educations in their home countries, don't fill those University Science and Technology slots...........no one will.



posted on Mar, 3 2017 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

I'm pretty damn confident the loss of opportunity for "Biblical archaeologists" and Egyptology won't erode US competitiveness. If I turn out to be wrong, oopsie... but let's be realistic here, we're not talking about travel bans involving cutting edge technological societies or premierly educated populations.



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