How to fix the criminal justice system?

originally posted by: luckskywatcher
a reply to: intrptr

There are times that i think that would be a good thing.

Me too. Remember Ferguson? The real issue the people were so pissed off about there was the county courts and traffic division of the police were fleecing citizens by writing tickets and issuing fines.

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a reply to: intrptr

Yes i do remember that. Not a good situation at all.

Thank you

a reply to: WilliamtheResolute

True. That would go a long way to freeing up the funds for the more expansive changes at the very least. So I can agree with that.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: WilliamtheResolute

originally posted by: intrptr

Without crime wall street would crash.

You are correct, the system is broken and in today's reality you get the justice you can afford. We have become a country divided into "the have's" and the "have not's" and I am afraid there is a reason that all these hedge fund types built bunkers.

And have the criminal justice system on their side. That system stands between the corrupt system and the people.

Even it is owned and operated like a business.

Everybody has a little piece of the system, police, lawyers, judges, prison guards, etc. In our country you better be
too big to fail and too big to jail if you want to be a successful criminal..... the key to success is either becoming a politician or owning some politicians.

If you commit a serious crime like rape or pedophilia you deserve a harsh punishment even death. The german media is full of accounts where stupid judges let criminals they thought rehabilitated roam free and they went out to kill and rape again merely hours after their release. I don't believe in rehabilitation because of those examples. I'm a law abiding citizen no criminal record at all. It's not that hard to be a decent human being.

I'm perfectly aware that my solution is a little bit drastic but putting criminals in prisons costs taxpayers billions of dollars. The money saved could be used for a whole lot of better things. I have no empathy for criminals who use stupid excuses like religion,greed,jealousy or whatever to kill another human being. Kill'em all i don't care. This would solve the problem with human overpopulation too.

a reply to: WilliamtheResolute

Everybody has a little piece of the system, police, lawyers, judges, prison guards, etc.

All good Romans, minions of the state.

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm sorry but no.
You are totally ignoring brain chemistry/psych issues which in many cases treatment can't rehabilitate. Some humans just can't be rehabilitated and to ignore this places an undue burden on society.

While I will agree it's a "slippery slope" in theory, in practical terms it's not.
Many crimes do justify a death sentence. Pedophilia is one. The victim is damaged for life. While you may be all for that offenders "rehab" the damage lasts a lifetime for the victim and WILL be passed on down thru families to include many multiple more victims.

The death penalty is actually more expensive on the state than putting the person in life in jail. Thanks to the costs of repeals and all. In fact, I think we can do away with the death penalty altogether. It's a waste of resources. If a person can't be rehabilitated, just give him life in jail or whatever the maximum penalty is.

Though in Norway they manage to rehabilitate these people despite you declaring they cannot be rehabilitated. I'd be interested in you proving that some people cannot be rehabilitated.

One persons rehab does NOT negate the affects.

Secondly while I'll get blasted for this. opiate addiction and narcan. Why?
It's a proven fact that person will never regain complete brain function despite a successful rehab. If someone has OD'd multiple times why are we forcing first responders to bring them back? It's more merciful to just let them go. Sure we will face an initial high mortality event but saving people from the consequences of their actions serves no one.

You are a terrible person.

Murder.
That's a line once crossed you can't undo and equally no amount of rehab "fixes anything".

The societal "cost" of making excuses and not dealing swiftly with reprehensible behaviors has led to multiple secondary for profit businesses that are exploiting offenders as a source of income at further cost overall to every single one of us.

I understand this will come off as "harsh" but the reality is, not everyone can be rehabilitated.

Psh. It doesn't come off as harsh. It comes as normal. "Punishment is more important than rehabilitation". The same tired reasoning that we've been using to guide our prison population that has never worked.

I already understood that my ideas wouldn't be popular. Americans can't stand admitting that Europe may be doing something better than they are. This is just another example of it.

Grow weed twice and share a cell with a murderer

Has anyone noted the irony generated by this thread......We kill bad people to create a kinder, more just world.
I appreciate the Machiavellian overtones with the "end justifies the means" rationalizations. I am a little disappointed that the SJW's have not weighed in with an opinion, I love to observe their thought processes.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm sorry but no.
You are totally ignoring brain chemistry/psych issues which in many cases treatment can't rehabilitate. Some humans just can't be rehabilitated and to ignore this places an undue burden on society.

While I will agree it's a "slippery slope" in theory, in practical terms it's not.
Many crimes do justify a death sentence. Pedophilia is one. The victim is damaged for life. While you may be all for that offenders "rehab" the damage lasts a lifetime for the victim and WILL be passed on down thru families to include many multiple more victims.

The death penalty is actually more expensive on the state than putting the person in life in jail. Thanks to the costs of repeals and all. In fact, I think we can do away with the death penalty altogether. It's a waste of resources. If a person can't be rehabilitated, just give him life in jail or whatever the maximum penalty is.

Though in Norway they manage to rehabilitate these people despite you declaring they cannot be rehabilitated. I'd be interested in you proving that some people cannot be rehabilitated.

One persons rehab does NOT negate the affects.

Secondly while I'll get blasted for this. opiate addiction and narcan. Why?
It's a proven fact that person will never regain complete brain function despite a successful rehab. If someone has OD'd multiple times why are we forcing first responders to bring them back? It's more merciful to just let them go. Sure we will face an initial high mortality event but saving people from the consequences of their actions serves no one.

You are a terrible person.

Murder.
That's a line once crossed you can't undo and equally no amount of rehab "fixes anything".

The societal "cost" of making excuses and not dealing swiftly with reprehensible behaviors has led to multiple secondary for profit businesses that are exploiting offenders as a source of income at further cost overall to every single one of us.

I understand this will come off as "harsh" but the reality is, not everyone can be rehabilitated.

Psh. It doesn't come off as harsh. It comes as normal. "Punishment is more important than rehabilitation". The same tired reasoning that we've been using to guide our prison population that has never worked.

I already understood that my ideas wouldn't be popular. Americans can't stand admitting that Europe may be doing something better than they are. This is just another example of it.

While we are totally on opposite sides of the political arena and I have not(until now) read a post of yours that I agree with in this I agree 100%

You are 100& correct in your statements and assumptions. If someone can do it anyone can do it. All the naysayers that are advocating for death would change their minds drastically if they didn't have the money and/or connections to get out of it. Many career criminals have never been arrested but that does not make them any less the criminal.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

"I already understood that my ideas wouldn't be popular. Americans can't stand admitting that Europe may be doing something better than they are. This is just another example of it."

I might have agreed with you before the stupid Socialists in the EU opened the borders to third world refugees, they along with Norway, are about to get a big wake-up call regarding serious crime and incarceration....it's happening already even if their media won't cover it.

I think that some of the issue starts with our schools.

Not everyone will go to college

For those that don't have college in their future how about we offer good vocational training so young men and women will have money making alternatives to crime when they get out of school

Would you be a criminal if you have a good job??


I also think that providing job training for those incarcerated for non violent crime should be mandatory. Perhaps part of a sentence should be the completion of vocational training in a field that has employment opportunities in the area that you committed your crime

For violent criminals, I don't have much hope. If you are a repeat violent criminal you should be segregated from society for the rest of your life. Your actions have determined your future

a reply to: WilliamtheResolute

Those countries disagree vehemently. I think I'll trust them over American media telling me otherwise.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

A bullet is not that expensive. Just shoot them in the head and cremate the remains. The execution method doesn't need to be humane for this scum.

originally posted by: WilliamtheResolute
Has anyone noted the irony generated by this thread......We kill bad people to create a kinder, more just world.
I appreciate the Machiavellian overtones with the "end justifies the means" rationalizations. I am a little disappointed that the SJW's have not weighed in with an opinion, I love to observe their thought processes.

Why use a SJW argument when a fiscal one makes just as much sense?
Considering The Death Penalty: Your Tax Dollars At Work

"It's 10 times more expensive to kill them than to keep them alive,"says Donald McCartin, known as The Hanging Judge of Orange County. McCartin knows a little bit about executions: he has sent nine men to death row.

McCartin isn't talking about the comparisons between the cost of the actual execution and the cost of keeping an inmate in prison: those aren't apples to apples comparisons.

It's true that the actual execution costs taxpayers fairly little: while most states remain mum on the cost of lethal injections because of privacy concerns from pharmaceutical companies, it's estimated that the drugs run about $100 (the Texas Department of Criminal Justice put the cost of their drug cocktails at $83 in 2011). However, the outside costs associated with the death penalty are disproportionately higher.

To begin with, capital cases (those where the death penalty is a potential punishment) are more expensive and take much more time to resolve than non-capital cases. According to a study by the Kansas Judicial Council (downloads as a pdf), defending a death penalty case costs about four times as much as defending a case where the death penalty is not considered. In terms of costs, a report of the Washington State Bar Association found that death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 in additional costs to the prosecution and defense versus a similar case without the death penalty; that doesn't take into account the cost of court personnel. Even when a trial wasn't necessary (because of a guilty plea), those cases where the death penalty was sought still cost about twice as much as those where death was not sought. Citing Richard C. Dieter of the non-partisan Death Penalty Information Center, Fox News has reported that studies have "uniformly and conservatively shown that a death-penalty trial costs $1 million more than one in which prosecutors seek life without parole."

And let's not forget about appeals: in Idaho, the State Appellate Public Defenders office spent about 44 times more time on a typical death penalty appeal than on a life sentence appeal (downloads as a pdf): almost 8,000 hours per capital defendant compared to about 180 hours per non-death penalty defendant. New York state projected that the death penalty costs the state $1.8 million per case just through trial and initial appeal.

It costs more to house death penalty prisoners, as well. In Kansas, housing prisoners on death row costs more than twice as much per year ($49,380) as for prisoners in the general population ($24,690). In California, incarceration costs for death penalty prisoners totaled more than $1 billion from 1978 to 2011 (total costs outside of incarceration were another $3 billion). By the numbers, the annual cost of the death penalty in the state of California is $137 million compared to the cost of lifetime incarceration of $11.5 million.

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

A bullet is not that expensive. Just shoot them in the head and cremate the remains. The execution method doesn't need to be humane for this scum.

The method of death isn't the reason why it is so expensive. Read the link I just posted about this post.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WilliamtheResolute

Those countries disagree vehemently. I think I'll trust them over American media telling me otherwise.

....and there it is.

a reply to: crazyewok

I believe we're on similar pages, though I'm having dejavu and think you and I have had this discussion before and we disagree where the most serious offenders are concerned. I think life in prison is a waste of taxpayer resources as well as a honeypot for the Prison Industrial Complex. At the point in which a criminal can never again be trusted with freedom, execute them and move on. Life imprisonment certainly doesn't meet any sort of "rehabilitation" mission, and frankly the only ones truly punished by keeping them locked up forever are the families of their victims and those of us footing the bills.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

A bullet is not that expensive. Just shoot them in the head and cremate the remains. The execution method doesn't need to be humane for this scum.

The method of death isn't the reason why it is so expensive. Read the link I just posted about this post.

Sounds like the system needs to be reformed to make it much more expedient and less costly then.

In addition the death penalty can only be applied if the evidence is overwhelming and without a shadow of the doubt. That way obstructionists have no justification for wasting the courts' time.

a reply to: Wildbob77

Sorry but i have to disagree. You have always the choice if you become a criminal or not. This is just another excuse to justify their criminal behavior. Just look at the thug life culture that gets praised left and right. We need to start to weed out the root of that evil crap with any means necessary.